I don't believe I was talking to you, and much that your pissy little drivvel is amusing to read, it doesn't serve much purpose.
And there you are, claiming to be one of the jesus camp. Is he a raving nincompoop aswell, or is that just a personal trait that you can't seem to get rid of, even through all of jesus' guidance?
Maybe jesus should stick to people who have passed puberty, to save the embarrasment you show to him and yourself.
Snake.
And there you are, claiming to be one of the jesus camp. Is he a raving nincompoop aswell, or is that just a personal trait that you can't seem to get rid of, even through all of jesus' guidance?
Maybe jesus should stick to people who have passed puberty, to save the embarrasment you show to him and yourself.
Snake.
David F.: I don't know, but the bible seems to equate Hell and Grave. Grave is in the ground so perhaps Hell is too? I don't think I really want to find out!
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M*W: Let's go outside the bible for a moment. 'Hell' comes from the name of a city in Egypt -- Heliopolis -- meaning 'place of the sun.' Early humans loved but feared the sun, because they believed the sun to be the monotheist god. But the sun was hot, and they couldn't look directly at the face of the sun-god or would be smitten or blinded. We still can't look directly at the sun. But the sun was worshipped because it helped them to grow their crops and it gave them light. So they worshipped it. To them, the sun was god and probably was also hell at the same time. As you know, Egyptians learned to mummify their dead, and they weren't generally buried in the ground, as far as I know, but in dark caves. The Jews had this custom as well. Either way, it was burial IN the earth. Moses brought the idea of monotheism to the ancient world, but he believed the sun to be the One True God. Somewhere down the ages from Moses, the monotheistic belief became this indescribible God-in-Heaven character. Of course, nothing really had changed except the perception of this sky-god became one of God-the-Father. Then, by the time Jesus arrives on the scene, he became known as the Son-of-God, but in reality, it still meant the sun-of-god or the Sun God or God's-only-begotten-son. This image of God remained the same even though our human perception of it evolved through the ages. I understand this perception, that's why I simply don't believe in what ancient man thought he believed.
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David F.: Yes, Angels cannot die, but then neither could Adam before the fall. The bible seems to be saying that Adam was not mortal flesh until after the fall and when the angels fell, they too became mortal flesh - thus the phrase "he also is flesh" from Gen 6:3.
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M*W: My problem with the story of A&E is that the word 'adama' from which the proper name 'Adam' comes from literally means 'red earth,' and in some circles it means 'earthling.' I understand 'Adam' to be symbolic for the Planet Earth. 'Eve' in Hebrew is 'HWWH' pronounced hah-wah. Interestingly, the Hebrew word for 'serpent' is also 'HWWH.' Just how close does that come to 'YHWH' or Yahweh? I believe they are pronounced the same. Could it have been Eve who was God after all? I believe Eve to symbolize all life on earth, or 'evolution.'
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David F.: Yes, I take it from the bible that man is not descendant from the fallen angels either. It says of Noah that "he was perfect in his generations" which I take to mean that he had no "fallen angel genes" or that there were no fallen angels in his anscestry. Noah is the only person in the bible with this description. Since the Neanderthals died out and since the bible hints that the fallen angels died out, I thought perhaps you were equating the two.
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M*W: The story of Noah and the Flood was copied from the earlier flood of Gilgamesh. In fact, that's why some researchers believe the Noah-Flood story came before the Adam-Eve story or the story of the Exodus. In other words, the accurate sequence of both OT and NT are not in true chronological order, but I suppose you already knew that. Same goes for the gospels. Paul's epistles were written from 51-57 AD, long before the gospels were written from about 70 AD to the late first century AD. Scholars now believe it was MM who wrote the Gospel of "John" and Revelations. MM died of old age, some scholars say it was on a Greek isle, but her bones were found in the South of France. Because of my research into MM, I believe Jesus did, in fact, exist, and lived out his life with MM. Archeologists are still looking for Jesus' bones in France.
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M*W: Let's go outside the bible for a moment. 'Hell' comes from the name of a city in Egypt -- Heliopolis -- meaning 'place of the sun.' Early humans loved but feared the sun, because they believed the sun to be the monotheist god. But the sun was hot, and they couldn't look directly at the face of the sun-god or would be smitten or blinded. We still can't look directly at the sun. But the sun was worshipped because it helped them to grow their crops and it gave them light. So they worshipped it. To them, the sun was god and probably was also hell at the same time. As you know, Egyptians learned to mummify their dead, and they weren't generally buried in the ground, as far as I know, but in dark caves. The Jews had this custom as well. Either way, it was burial IN the earth. Moses brought the idea of monotheism to the ancient world, but he believed the sun to be the One True God. Somewhere down the ages from Moses, the monotheistic belief became this indescribible God-in-Heaven character. Of course, nothing really had changed except the perception of this sky-god became one of God-the-Father. Then, by the time Jesus arrives on the scene, he became known as the Son-of-God, but in reality, it still meant the sun-of-god or the Sun God or God's-only-begotten-son. This image of God remained the same even though our human perception of it evolved through the ages. I understand this perception, that's why I simply don't believe in what ancient man thought he believed.
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David F.: Yes, Angels cannot die, but then neither could Adam before the fall. The bible seems to be saying that Adam was not mortal flesh until after the fall and when the angels fell, they too became mortal flesh - thus the phrase "he also is flesh" from Gen 6:3.
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M*W: My problem with the story of A&E is that the word 'adama' from which the proper name 'Adam' comes from literally means 'red earth,' and in some circles it means 'earthling.' I understand 'Adam' to be symbolic for the Planet Earth. 'Eve' in Hebrew is 'HWWH' pronounced hah-wah. Interestingly, the Hebrew word for 'serpent' is also 'HWWH.' Just how close does that come to 'YHWH' or Yahweh? I believe they are pronounced the same. Could it have been Eve who was God after all? I believe Eve to symbolize all life on earth, or 'evolution.'
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David F.: Yes, I take it from the bible that man is not descendant from the fallen angels either. It says of Noah that "he was perfect in his generations" which I take to mean that he had no "fallen angel genes" or that there were no fallen angels in his anscestry. Noah is the only person in the bible with this description. Since the Neanderthals died out and since the bible hints that the fallen angels died out, I thought perhaps you were equating the two.
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M*W: The story of Noah and the Flood was copied from the earlier flood of Gilgamesh. In fact, that's why some researchers believe the Noah-Flood story came before the Adam-Eve story or the story of the Exodus. In other words, the accurate sequence of both OT and NT are not in true chronological order, but I suppose you already knew that. Same goes for the gospels. Paul's epistles were written from 51-57 AD, long before the gospels were written from about 70 AD to the late first century AD. Scholars now believe it was MM who wrote the Gospel of "John" and Revelations. MM died of old age, some scholars say it was on a Greek isle, but her bones were found in the South of France. Because of my research into MM, I believe Jesus did, in fact, exist, and lived out his life with MM. Archeologists are still looking for Jesus' bones in France.
I'm sorry, you are right. I'm using the english word Hell instead of the Hebrew word Ghanna (or Geenna in the NT). Ghanna is, according to the Jews, the left half of Hades (Hades is also a Greek word - Sheol in Hebrew) and it is the location of the lake of fire. The only confirmation from the bible on this point is Jesus' story of Lazareth and the Rich Man. The right half of Hades/Sheol is Paradise, or at least it was until Jesus went to preach to the dead during His three days in the tomb.Medicine Woman said:
Actually the word used in the Genesis story is H'DM. It only becomes 'DM or Adam after the Fall. In any case, you are right, the word Adam can be translated either as Man or as Red Earth. Eve did not get her name until after the fall. Up to the fall, she is just called H'SH-H or "The Woman". I had to pull my Hebrew Bible out to check on the spellings of Eve (HVH) and Serpent (NKSH - Nachash)? The V and W are actually the same letter in Hebrew so Eve could be HWH which is somewhat close to YHWH or YHVH (which is the way I usually see it spelled). However, the bible specifies that the name YHVH was not known to anyone until God revealed the name to Moses on Sinia so I don't know how that fits with 2500 years earlier and the name given to the woman - Eve? This is a little confusing since Moses seems to have used his new-found name for God throughout the book of Genesis.
I tend to think that Noah and the Flood were the true stories passed down to Abraham and to Moses and the Sumerians rewrote the stories to fit their own culture. There are no documents pre-Gilgamesh so we will never know which came first. I haven't read Gilgamesh for a few years, but I don't thinkthe Gilgamesh story of King Z--- (whatever his name was) going through a great flood is significantly different from the bible version, is it?
As for the Gospels and Epistles, you are right, the Epistles (Thessalonians) were probably written first and then the Gospels and then some more of the Epistles from various Authors - but the dates are a little earlier that you quote. We have written documents which quote the Gospels/Epistles which date to the 40-65AD range and you can't quote something which hasn't been written yet.
Interesting story about MM and Jesus...
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what768
Guest
Medicine Woman said:
Actually, you are wrong.
It is impossible for Jesus (the word of God) to be married to something earthly, and he can also have no bones. Only a body possesses bones, but we ourselves have no such things. You are researching heavenly things with earthly understanding.M*W does not want to cover her head. She wants to wave her glorious hair all around in public saying "Look at my hair. Isnt it lovely"
Whilst I agree that her hair is lovely, it would be better for her to cover it until her husband arrives so that he alone may appreciate it.
Whilst I agree that her hair is lovely, it would be better for her to cover it until her husband arrives so that he alone may appreciate it.
c20H25N3o: M*W does not want to cover her head. She wants to wave her glorious hair all around in public saying "Look at my hair. Isnt it lovely" Whilst I agree that her hair is lovely, it would be better for her to cover it until her husband arrives so that he alone may appreciate it.
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M*W: I submit to no man in heaven or on Earth.
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M*W: I submit to no man in heaven or on Earth.
c20H25N3o said:
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what768
Guest
M*W, are YOU a woman? I that not just your body? Or do you identify yourself with your body, so that you became ONE with it? In me there is no male or female, because they are in balance, the outer is just a shell, like clothes. I don't love my family more than anyone else. You sound like you're everything. I am that. I don't believe in lies either. We are all a family. God is God.
what768: M*W, are YOU a woman? I that not just your body? Or do you identify yourself with your body, so that you became ONE with it? In me there is no male or female, because they are in balance, the outer is just a shell, like clothes. I don't love my family more than anyone else. You sound like you're everything. I am that. I don't believe in lies either. We are all a family. God is God.
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M*W: I am a woman thru and thru. I worship my family who I have created. I do not worship any male "God." My family believes I am God, because I have brought them from the depths to salvation. Why should I believe in any other God? It was me who saved my family from the depths -- not any god out there. I raised my children to believe in "God," but I realized all to soon that there was no "God" out there to save us to pray too. It was me. It was only me who brought them out of darkness to see the light.
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M*W: I am a woman thru and thru. I worship my family who I have created. I do not worship any male "God." My family believes I am God, because I have brought them from the depths to salvation. Why should I believe in any other God? It was me who saved my family from the depths -- not any god out there. I raised my children to believe in "God," but I realized all to soon that there was no "God" out there to save us to pray too. It was me. It was only me who brought them out of darkness to see the light.
Medicine Woman said:
M*W - I hear what you are saying but how could a starving woman in Africa who has Aid's through no fault of her own, hope to show her children that she herself is God? She doesnt have even enough strength to lift her new born baby to her breast let alone become all the things you have become. How do you tell her that she is a godess? Do you tell your children that she is a godess? Do you tell your children that? How could they believe you when you are basing your faith purely in your 'good achievements'? That african woman could never have achieved what you achieved!
You say you created your family - can you tell me how you did that out of nothing - I need specifics such as how you made the DNA chain, how you decided upon carbon as the base material for life on earth etc etc?
M*W I propose that you were given all that you have and it is by God's good grace that you have all that you have. God makes His sun shine on everyone. Good, bad, beautiful and ugly. You misjdge God's good nature I feel. Even people with a very simple childlike understanding of "Me little, Universe big" would not set themselves up as God i.e. the Creator of all that you see!
It is not for nothing that I type here! It is not for my own benefit you see. I, not God, have better things to do personally but I am compelled to make you see that you are NOT God and that a spirit of humility would be much more pleasing. It is text like this that makes me cry out "O God what is man that you are mindful of him?"
peace
c20
SnakeLord said:
Snakelord, have you ever been to Africa? Do you know any African people from the regions I speak of? I do! These desperately poor people have more faith in God than do the rich westerners! They do not blame God for their lot but instead 'know' that their God loves them.
They wait for help but none comes. They look at the godless west and are not suprised that help does not flow their way so easily. They know in their material poverty they have great spiritual wealth. They see westerners as the true poor who are blinded by their love of self and things! It is much much more apparent to that African woman how hard it is for the west to be generous. She blesses the west.
peace
c20
Well, I did the grand tour of Egypt, but otherwise no.
Actually we have many Africans here, and I even know some African slave women here that have been sold by their own families.
Sure, they got taken over. They had their own gods, (such as Abellio etc), and their own enitre belief systems. Along comes the church and throughout the ages has forced them into the christian belief.
However, god belief is generally all "poor, diseased, ready to die at any minute" people have. They know things are not going to get instantly better for them, and realise that death is but a step away, ready to claim them. That's the way it is.
You know, some guy wins a few million on the lottery and goes out partying. Then some guy finds out he has a few months to live and he's in church the very next day. Knowing that your life will most likely end soon makes people try absolutely anything to stop it from happening.
There's another thread around here with recent statistics concerning wealth to religion, and aside from the USA, the richer a country is, the less religious it's people are. Africa ranks right up the top with religion, and right at the bottom with wealth. Funnily enough, they also rank extremely low as far as education is concerned. What else do they have but 'belief'?
But tell me C20, what do you think these people pray for?
Are you taking the piss? Do you know how many millions my small country, (UK), sends to Africa every single year? We have special 'help Africa' days, special 'help Africa' concerts and constant TV adverts asking for money, and asking for help. English people contribute masses to help Africa, and I'm sure most countries do.
What you need to realise, is that we didn't cause the problem, but instead are doing our utmost to solve it. The problem had to have been caused by god, who decided to make the country rife with disease and illness, and it's land unable to produce crop. Did we make the country a barren wasteland? Did we fill the country up with mosquitos and other animals that cause death wherever they go, willing to kill everyone regardless to religiosity or age? No, we did not.
And it's us. we are trying to solve these problems and help these people while god sits on his golden throne and does nothing.
Sure, anything to take the focus away from the fact they're about to die in some of the most disgusting ways god has ever thought up.
Speak for yourself about lack of generosity. The English give millions upon millions every year to try and help these people. We provide food, medical supplies, education.. What does god provide? Disease, a land that cannot produce crop. When it comes to generosity, we're way above god.
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what768
Guest
Medicine Woman said:
Does anyone? Wouldn't that be to worship an idol? God is formless, colorless, "he" is nothing but everything comes from it. God is not any entity fallen from oneness, searching for its complementary half. God is the oneness itself, that which brings everything together, that which creates everything. When the world was "separated" from God, everything in the universe was pulled off from the state of oneness, and they were all created in 2 forms. Magnets and people keep seeking the oneness in each other, because they identify themselves with the material body. But matter and matter can never melt together without being destroyed, we must instead find our other self in ourself, in our consciousness. People themselves cannot create or do anything, it is God who does it through our body. Although, when we have found everything in ourselves, we might as well say that it all happens through Me.
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I saw Contact (1997) yesterday. It's a great movie.
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