I see that discussion has returned to the supposed moral effects of imagined universal observers. (This thread is like a lazy slowly-moving river.) So I'm going to repeat some remarks that I made earlier in the thread when we were discussing the idea the first time:
And why doesn't the monotheists' theory of a universal witness suffer from precisely that same shortcoming? [The implication that what makes unethical actions wrong is getting caught.] It just seems to be adding the additional assertion that wrongdoers will always get caught. It doesn't seem to be addressing the problem of developing conscience. Conscience after all is what typically makes us feel that particular sorts of acts are wrong even when nobody else can see us doing them.
Ideally, our good behavior should arise from our own deepest motivations, not from our fear of being seen, caught and punished if we behave as we truly and secretly want to behave.
Who said it was necessarily monotheist, or theist at all considering I specifically assumed a god does not exist? It is posts like this which make this thread so repetitive. But the difference is that I am talking about internalizing this perspective instead of continuing to think of it as external. Conscience is the "wrongdoer" evaluating their own actions for themselves. "Getting caught" is not even factored into a well-developed conscience.
Conscience does have an innate origin, but it can be further developed by conscious volition.
I agree with Capracus there. Belief in 'God' is a prototypically religious belief. The concept 'God', in the Euro-American context at least, arose within and was strongly shaped by the Judeo-Christian religious tradition. It's hard to imagine what content the English-language word might have, or whether it would even exist in its portentious capitalized form, if that Judeo-Christian tradition had never existed. In other words, the concept 'God' is a cultural artifact, relative to a particular historical tradition.
That suggests that a hypothetical 'religionless' concept of 'God' is probably impossible.
Really? What about deism?
Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a God, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.
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For Deists, human beings can only know God via reason and the observation of nature, but not by revelation or supernatural manifestations (such as miracles) – phenomena which Deists regard with caution if not skepticism. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
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For Deists, human beings can only know God via reason and the observation of nature, but not by revelation or supernatural manifestations (such as miracles) – phenomena which Deists regard with caution if not skepticism. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
It would seem that "revelation and authority" are the grounds on which Capracus has conflated the concept of god with religion, and that the supernatural is how he conflates the mystical. All of which are either outright denied or viewed with skepticism by deists.
But again, I assumed a god does not exist, so there is no belief necessary. And why artificially limit the abstract concept to a "Euro-American context"? Besides, I have not used the capitalized "God".
No,no,no,no,no. I argued against the idea that the scope of 'religion' is identical with the scope of 'theism'. There are non-theistic religions out there. That doesn't imply that non-religious theism is possible. I don't believe that it is.
Imagine nesting Venn diagrams. 'Religion' is a big circle. 'Theism' is a smaller circle inside the larger circle, a sub-set of the larger set. Theism is a particular variety of religious belief. It's entirely possible to be very religious without being any sort of theist. (Imagine a Zen monk.) But it's impossible to be a theist without possessing some kind of religious belief, because by definition theism is a particular variety of religious belief.
Again, deism does not necessarily include any of the trappings of religion. But theism does, broadly, cover deism:
Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists.
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The use of the word theism to indicate this classical form of monotheism began during the scientific revolution of the seventeenth century in order to distinguish it from the then-emerging deism which contended that God, though transcendent and supreme, did not intervene in the natural world and could be known rationally but not via revelation. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
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The use of the word theism to indicate this classical form of monotheism began during the scientific revolution of the seventeenth century in order to distinguish it from the then-emerging deism which contended that God, though transcendent and supreme, did not intervene in the natural world and could be known rationally but not via revelation. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
And as you can see, theism was used merely to denote a general belief in the existence of a god before it came to mean the specific belief in a personal and active god.