The Relativity of Simultaneity

Can I be an honorary member of the Light Box Cult?

Sure, but cult seems like such a harsh word. :)

How about the term reality?

You are living in reality, so you are already a member. Some people live in a world of illusions, and make believe. I think that's called the Einstein love fest, or something like that. :)
 
Sure, but cult seems like such a harsh word. :)

How about the term reality?

You are living in reality, so you are already a member. Some people live in a world of illusions, and make believe. I think that's called the Einstein love fest, or something like that. :)
No, sorry MD. I think Cult is the right word, lol. Reality is too philosophical. We may be living in it but we know nothing about it for sure.
 
Motor Daddy:

Here is a picture of what happens in reality (i.e. the world described by Einstein) for your source in a square box:

picture.php


The three diagrams on the left-hand side show successive snapshots in a reference frame in which the box moves to the right with some speed. The three diagrams on the right show the same snapshots in a reference frame in which the box is stationary.

Or, to put it another way, the left-hand diagrams show the situation in the frame of the "embankment", where the box is on a moving train. The left-hand diagrams show the same situation in the frame of the "train".

The first thing to notice is that the box is square on the right and rectangular on the left. This is due to length contraction. In the train's frame, the box is at rest so it is square/cubical. In the embankment frame, the box is moving and so relativity tells us that it contracts in the direction of motion.

Also note that in the left-hand diagrams the box moves to the right, because the embankment sees the train moving to the right. In the right-hand diagrams, the box does not move, because a person on the train does not see the box move.

The next thing to notice is the round dot marked on each diagram. That is the location at which light was emitted, which doesn't change in each frame.

Next thing: the three diagrams show the light wave spreading out. The wavefront is circular/spherical in BOTH frames, due to Einstein's speed-of-light postulate. Note in particular that in the Motor-Daddy universe the wavefront would NOT be circular in the train frame, since the speed of light travels at different speeds in different directions in the Motor Daddy universe.

The top two diagrams shows the wavefront a short time after emission.
The middle diagram on the left shows the wave hitting the "back" wall of the box in the embankment frame.
The two bottom diagrams shows the situation when the wave hits the "front" wall of the box. Notice that in the train frame the wave also hits the back wall at this time.
The middle diagram on the right shows a time in the train frame where the light wave has not yet reached either wall of the box.

Next thing to note: in the train frame, the light wave hit both the front and back of the train simultaneously (as shown in the bottom-right diagram). In the embankment frame, the walls were hit at two different times - first the back wall (middle-left diagram), then the front wall (bottom-left diagram).

It is important to remember that two different clocks are being used on the right and on the left. The diagrams on the left use the embankment clocks; the diagrams on the right use clocks on the train.
Good descriptions of the diagrams, James R. I was hoping to follow along by looking at the diagram but I don't know where to link to it.
 
MD, there are some things to consider and maybe this is a good time. I'm sure you have read this text ...
http://www.bartleby.com/173/,
so let's consider the first 17 chapters, i.e. Part I as required reading for all cult members. Do you agree?
 
Einstein said:
Who would imagine that this simple law [constancy of the velocity of light] has plunged the conscientiously thoughtful physicist into the greatest intellectual difficulties?



...and yet he shows his inability to deal with the task at hand, so he creates a world of illusions, to baffle the conscientiously thoughtful physicist even more.

:roflmao:
 
...and yet he shows his inability to deal with the task at hand, so he creates a world of illusions, to baffle the conscientiously thoughtful physicist even more.

:roflmao:
It looks like we have a bad cop, good cop thing going here, lol.
 
I hear you!!!!!! But in the eyes of the heat givers we have nothing. If they answer no to the question we can discount them, IMHO. If they answer yes but ... at least they have the necessary view of what is meant by the speed of light is invariant from the point of emission. If they answer Yes and agree with MD, like Emil did, they are in the cult, lol.
 
I'm watching the incoming tide waters fill the salt flat all around the Maple Pavilion. Soon there will be little fishes darting about where the fiddler crabs were extremely busy just a few minutes ago. Time for me to pack up, head home to pick up the cow bells, and go pick up my wife from work so we can get to the Rays game early enough to get the free tee-shirts they are giving out tonight, :). See you later, MD.
 
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I'm watching the incoming tide waters fill the salt flat all around the Maple Pavilion. Soon there will be little fishes darting about where the fiddler crabs were extremely busy just a few minutes ago. Time for me to pack up, head home to pick up the cow bells, and go pick up my wife from work so we can get to the Rays game early enough to get the free tee-shirts they are giving out tonight, :). See you later, MD.

Have fun!
 
MD, there are some things to consider and maybe this is a good time. I'm sure you have read this text ...
http://www.bartleby.com/173/,
so let's consider the first 17 chapters, i.e. Part I as required reading for all cult members. Do you agree?
From your response I have to think you agree even though you might think it should be read for a laugh. Actually it is possible that many of those how have been giving you heat have read it, and maybe some have not. The point is before you can understand the motivation for the light box scenario you have to know the sequential process that brought us SR.

Once you know that you have a decision to make. Did Einstein/Lorentz sort out how reality works or did they start with two postulates that were at odds and devise a coordinate system where there was a mathematical relationship between frames that made the two postulates agree.

One is scientific discovery and one is mathematical association.

The reason I said that there are some things to consider is the fact of time dilation between clocks in motion relative to each other. What is your explanation for the apparent differences in the measurement of time by essentially identical clocks when one moves at relativistic speeds relative to the other?
 
The reason I said that there are some things to consider is the fact of time dilation between clocks in motion relative to each other. What is your explanation for the apparent differences in the measurement of time by essentially identical clocks when one moves at relativistic speeds relative to the other?

Distance and time are not separable according to light. If light travels 299,792,458 meters, it did it in exactly one second,by definition. There is no time dilation, and there is no length contraction. Those are Einstein's methods of reconciling the difference between the constancy of the speed of light in a vacuum, and measuring the speed of light to be the same in all frames. I've shown that even though his mathematical world is self consistent, his second postulate is clearly impossible.
 
Distance and time are not separable according to light. If light travels 299,792,458 meters, it did it in exactly one second,by definition. There is no time dilation, and there is no length contraction. Those are Einstein's methods of reconciling the difference between the constancy of the speed of light in a vacuum, and measuring the speed of light to be the same in all frames. I've shown that even though his mathematical world is self consistent, his second postulate is clearly impossible.
Physical evidence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdRmCqylsME
Theoretical skepticism
http://www.physicsmyths.org.uk/timedilation.htm

I guess we need to talk, lol. What I'm going for is do you have an alternative explanation for the physical effect that is pointed to as evidence of time dilation. I agree that if you use light as the measuring stick, then time is simply the duration of light travel ;).
 
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I love the sound of crickets!!!


Nice diagram, Motor Daddy!

In between frame 1 and frame 2, there is a time when the light hits the left wall of the cube. By my calculations, that happens at T=0.305069 seconds. To calculate that time, I used this equation:

$$
(ct_x)^2 = (t_xv_x-L)^2 + (t_xv_y)^2 + (t_xv_z)^2
$$

Where $$t_x$$ is the measured signal transit time along the negative x-axis of the cube,

and $$v_x$$ is the component of the absolute velocity along the positive x-axis,

and $$L$$ is the length of the signal path relative to the cube.
 
Ned, is this the frame you are talking about?

Nedframe1.jpg


Or is it frame 3 in this graphic?

MDsgraphic1.jpg
 
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