The real cost of real UFOs
- Thread starter Ivan Seeking
- Start date
Incorrect again.
Many Official reports state that Venus was the object being reported. Venus has been a favorite of the Air Force. It's gotten them out of a lot of explanations. It's just sad that there's actually people out there who continue to accept this official lie.
Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
Yes it did. Why are you here? I am glad to discuss this subject with almost anyone who wishes to do so, but you offer nothing but mean spirited rhetoric. You use mostly unsupported personal attacks as your answer to evidence, and what little real information you are willing to address is only that which most of us dismiss as useless anyway. I thought that perhaps it was worth one last try, again, to have a civil conversation with you, but you are predicatably hostile and shallow ad nauseam.
Go away. Go be a nasty person somewhere else.
This is my last comment to Q.
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Ivan Seeking
Registered Senior Member
No known physics can explain the maneuvers observed if made by a massive object operated by humans. However, this does not have to mean ET, and surely we have not had craft capable of 20g accelerations for the last 50 years. I think there could be other options.
I understand your objection, but I think a proper framing of the speculation is that IF ET is here, THEN he must have somehow gotten here. However, I think even this assumes too much.
Perhaps they really don't give a damn about us either way. Why do you think we would be so important?
What is the potential for the technology of a race of beings one million years more advanced than us? If life is common out there, or even if its not so common, this is completely possible...according to the odds. How can we even speculate? Until we have a complete and unified description of all physical laws at the least, we are in no position to set absolute limits on technology.
Only UFOs [in some cases] come with confirmed hard data - mostly RADAR that supports visual sightings.
Well we can infer an implied intelligence if we don't cherry pick our stories to avoid such implications. Some documented events do describe UFOs that seem to anticipate and respond to the pilots actions. Also, UFOs often interact with each other in a seemingly intelligent manner.
There are many thousands of hours of such videos. I have also seen clear video of 8 or 10 silver orbs flying in formation, at great speed, and changing postions with each other with obvious precision. With few exceptions, a casual glance at pop TV reveals next to nothing about this subject. This is like saying we should interpret physics according to what we see on TV also.
Actually the first popular usage of the term "flying saucer" was in June of 1947. A rash of saucer sighting ensued for the next year or so. Cigar shaped objects have been reported since the early 50s; unless or course you count the cigar and saucer shaped reports that go back thousands of years.
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Venus HAS been reported as a UFO for definite. I've seen claimed footage of it as a UFO when it's movement was clearly caused by camera shake. This is a known phenomenon, the 'wandering star' effect. If you look at a bright source the area of your retina where the light falls gets tired, and you eye automatically compensates by moving slightly, so the light falls on a less tired adjacent region. Of course, you feel the involuntary movement of your eye, and interpret this as tracking the object. So you see a stationary object as moving! So, you grab the camcorder, start recording, and as it's a tiny light source, zoom, and zoom, and zoom, until you can't zoom any more. At this point camera shake is also magnified, so those subtle movements, now have this object zipping all over the place!
Of course, if you are doing this from a moving vehicle, parallax will make it look like this star is following you, and if you stop, it stops, making it look like it is tracking your movements. But it isn't, it's just parallax.
And, if you are one of those people that bought Sony, you might defocus that tiny light source, as you fumble with your zoom and focus and see, Wow! A lozenge shaped craft! Which is actually the shadow of the lozenge shaped camcorder iris falling on the CCD.
I've seen this one too many times, from too many sources, in various degrees. Sorry, Venus does get reported, it is ignorance, not conspiracy.
And you know, shouting 'conspiracy' every time a half baked report gets debunked, does nothing for your you perceived objectivity or credibility.
Incorrect, physics is physics, and applies everywhere in the universe, so the physics is known. What we don't know, is how to generate 20g of force instantaneously, and survive. Of course, 20g is just a figure plucked out of the air, and has absolutely no backing.
So why do they come here so much?
Ah, so their existance relies on the shadows in science! Just like God! See, we have gotten to the core of this, UFOlogy is merely another belief system. If we have to entertain the idea of ETs and UFOs because we don't have a complete description of science, we have to entertain all other hypotheses that we also cannot disprove, if we are being truly open minded, and that gets absurd.
Radar is not not 'hard' data, it's an intangible. Part of a UFO would be be 'hard'. Radar isn't perfect, and one thing I'm certain of, if that the radar traces for UFOs are always incomplete, popping onto radar, being tracked for a while, and vanishing. So, incomplete data isn't good data either.
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the Air Force has NEVER used the planet Venus as an explanation when they couldn't come up with any other? If so, do you really believe Captain Thomas Mantell flew to his death chasing the planet Venus?? :bugeye:
I have no doubt that the planet has been mistaken for an unidentified object many times. However, it cannot be assumed to be the culprit when no other explanation is available.
phlogistican,
You continue to ask the questions....
Why would they be interested in us?
Why wouldn't they be able to avoid our radar?
ect...ect...
You seem to believe that the lack of answers to these questions provides you some evidence that there's nothing to the ET hypothesis of UFO's. IMO, This is bordering on the absurd.
We ourselves have a desire to explore. We did it on our own planet, and will continue to do it outside our planet. I imagine someday, we'll venture out to the stars in search of new life. Be it advanced or microscopic, I think we'd be interested in learning about all of it. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp the idea that another intelligent race might do the same?
You continue to ask the questions....
Why would they be interested in us?
Why wouldn't they be able to avoid our radar?
ect...ect...
You seem to believe that the lack of answers to these questions provides you some evidence that there's nothing to the ET hypothesis of UFO's. IMO, This is bordering on the absurd.
We ourselves have a desire to explore. We did it on our own planet, and will continue to do it outside our planet. I imagine someday, we'll venture out to the stars in search of new life. Be it advanced or microscopic, I think we'd be interested in learning about all of it. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp the idea that another intelligent race might do the same?
The Airforce, ah, you see, assuming that it is the responsibility of the Air Force to provide answers is your mistake, and where you are being misled. They will only have better answers if there is some data to be had, and only then could they conspire. A simple answer for them saying 'it's Venus', is because they have no reason to think it wasn't. By the way, I used to live on an airforce base surrounded by pilots and radar operators. None of them ever mentioned UFOs. Or was my dad part of the conspiracy! I don't think so.
Of course not, and we can't jump to the conclusion that there is an intelligence behind it either!
And to return your other questions, why would ETs come all the way to earth, abduct people, and repeatedly shove probes up their arses? Or don't you believe people that report abduction, and if not, why not?
Ivan
I am glad to discuss this subject with almost anyone who wishes to do so
That’s not true – you’re only interested in discussing the subject with other believers who nod agreeably in your direction.
You use mostly unsupported personal attacks as your answer to evidence
Again untrue – I have yet to see any evidence therefore I cannot attack it. All I’ve seen so far is wishful thinking and a belief system that would rival most religions.
and what little real information you are willing to address is only that which most of us dismiss as useless anyway.
Yes, I know – reality continues to be dismissed by believers.
you are predicatably hostile and shallow ad nauseam.
Go away. Go be a nasty person somewhere else.
Give me your mailing address and I’ll send you a dollar – then maybe you can go out and buy yourself a spine. Milquetoast.
I am glad to discuss this subject with almost anyone who wishes to do so
That’s not true – you’re only interested in discussing the subject with other believers who nod agreeably in your direction.
You use mostly unsupported personal attacks as your answer to evidence
Again untrue – I have yet to see any evidence therefore I cannot attack it. All I’ve seen so far is wishful thinking and a belief system that would rival most religions.
and what little real information you are willing to address is only that which most of us dismiss as useless anyway.
Yes, I know – reality continues to be dismissed by believers.
you are predicatably hostile and shallow ad nauseam.
Go away. Go be a nasty person somewhere else.
Give me your mailing address and I’ll send you a dollar – then maybe you can go out and buy yourself a spine. Milquetoast.
Rob
I'm a relative newcomer to this board, and I've already figured out that Q is not worthy of a response.
Believers are not able to formulate intelligent responses nor are they able to adequately answer direct questions. They are far too convoluted with finding ET and severely entrenched into their belief systems to warrant reasonable thought to the UFO phenomenon.
I'm a relative newcomer to this board, and I've already figured out that Q is not worthy of a response.
Believers are not able to formulate intelligent responses nor are they able to adequately answer direct questions. They are far too convoluted with finding ET and severely entrenched into their belief systems to warrant reasonable thought to the UFO phenomenon.
No known physics can explain the maneuvers observed
It’s a real treat to watch believers throw around the term ‘physics’ when they attempt to explain UFO’s. It’s even funnier when they state unequivocally that physics cannot explain the observations. It puts into serious doubt their interpretation and validity of the observations and their credibility when discussing physics, especially when they can’t comprehend the blatant flaws in their logic.
It’s a real treat to watch believers throw around the term ‘physics’ when they attempt to explain UFO’s. It’s even funnier when they state unequivocally that physics cannot explain the observations. It puts into serious doubt their interpretation and validity of the observations and their credibility when discussing physics, especially when they can’t comprehend the blatant flaws in their logic.
I used the Air Force for lack of a better organization. It is a known fact that many intelligence/military organizations have continued to keep data on UFO reports long after they supposedly stopped. I have no idea the name of the organization who now handles the bulk of the data, or from what branch of the milary/intelligence area they come from. In fact, I suspect much of the data is now researched through private companies that have close ties to the Military industrial complex. But, to save time, I used the Air Force.
I haven't yet determined my opinion on this phenomena. Most of my research has dealt with the Military/intelligence branches, along with pilot/radar sightings. The abduction area is way too murky for me.
BTW: My thoughts on the UFO phenomena are not a belief. It is an opinion that there is indeed something going on based on the thousands of eyewitness, specifically military/intelligence. People who don't have anything to gain by coming forward. People who actually have much to lose by telling there stories. This, along with the history of deception and contradictions from these same organizations.
There is also evidence that this phenomena has been going on for thousands of years.
Analizing all the data that's available, I've come to the conclusion that much more information is being withheld. In fact, I find it very hard to believe that anyone who's followed this topic from the beginning, could come to any other conclusion.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone who's followed this topic from the beginning, could come to any other conclusion.
There are few other conclusions a believer would entertain - that is inherently part of the problem.
Try using some critical thinking and you'll soon find other conclusions begin revealing themselves.
There are few other conclusions a believer would entertain - that is inherently part of the problem.
Try using some critical thinking and you'll soon find other conclusions begin revealing themselves.
which is why discussions are pointless. adopt my tactics and simply attack the "scientists". if we are responsible for the sensationalist masses and media, let us hold them responsible for their bogus crap. science is full of fraud and stupidity. it is not hard to find.
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lets figure out "the fraud and the damage done"
*cancer and powerlines.
*nasa says bacteria on mars.
*nuclear winter
*piltdown
*whacky statisticians
*y2k
*fenphen
*mtbe
*mutant bees
*asteroids on collision course
thanks for nothing dolts!
oh! what about polchinski at some institute for theoretical physics?...."strings are tiny, branes are huge. if strings are like spaghetti, branes are like lasagna"
what do they do? breed crackpots at these places? enough with the nonsense! cut funding immediately
phlog spouts
Radar is not not 'hard' data, it's an intangible
i'll send some uranium over for christmas. the "intangible" here obviously does not exist
I learned physics in physics lectures and in physics labs, performing experiments, and getting repeatable data, which matched hypotheses.
yah, at that pace we would be still grunting away in the stone age
Why would tourists adbuct humans though?
so you dont wanna loaf around the andromeda galaxy anally probing some cute alien bitches? party pooper!
So, incomplete data isn't good data either.
this is fabulously shortsighted and disingenous. perhaps you just suck at "filling in the blanks"
So why do they come here so much?
umm...looking for the perfect mate? world domination? take yer pick. (i would tell you why but i have been sworn to secrecy by kjggpo the alien)
Incorrect, physics is physics,
heh, i like that. unfortunately it means nothing. just a mindless soundbite. perhaps you want to expand with cool examples? can you come up with instances when and where the laws of physics breaks down? or does that never happen? (you still have your ass covered to cos the breaking down is also acounted for by...."physics is physics", so no worries)
*cancer and powerlines.
*nasa says bacteria on mars.
*nuclear winter
*piltdown
*whacky statisticians
*y2k
*fenphen
*mtbe
*mutant bees
*asteroids on collision course
thanks for nothing dolts!
oh! what about polchinski at some institute for theoretical physics?...."strings are tiny, branes are huge. if strings are like spaghetti, branes are like lasagna"
what do they do? breed crackpots at these places? enough with the nonsense! cut funding immediately
phlog spouts
Radar is not not 'hard' data, it's an intangible
i'll send some uranium over for christmas. the "intangible" here obviously does not exist
I learned physics in physics lectures and in physics labs, performing experiments, and getting repeatable data, which matched hypotheses.
yah, at that pace we would be still grunting away in the stone age
Why would tourists adbuct humans though?
so you dont wanna loaf around the andromeda galaxy anally probing some cute alien bitches? party pooper!
So, incomplete data isn't good data either.
this is fabulously shortsighted and disingenous. perhaps you just suck at "filling in the blanks"
So why do they come here so much?
umm...looking for the perfect mate? world domination? take yer pick. (i would tell you why but i have been sworn to secrecy by kjggpo the alien)
Incorrect, physics is physics,
heh, i like that. unfortunately it means nothing. just a mindless soundbite. perhaps you want to expand with cool examples? can you come up with instances when and where the laws of physics breaks down? or does that never happen? (you still have your ass covered to cos the breaking down is also acounted for by...."physics is physics", so no worries)