The Quranic principle of "honoring Man", where the recital is knowledge

C

cleese

Registered Senior Member
The Quranic principle of “honoring Man”
Where the recital is:
Establishing Man’s existence upon knowledge​

This is a three-part comparison, between the position of Mankind in both the Bible and Quran.
The first part would be a detailing of how Mankind is honored in Quran. While the second part would be about detailing the same point, but from the Biblical point of view. In the epilogue of the third part, there would be few questions and answers, clarifying the writer’s point of view and his conclusions.

Introduction
How to examine the true religion?

Bertrand Russell said once “the perpetually open mind is a perpetually vacant one.” I guess he said so only to repudiate the pretentious saying of “neutrality of opinion.”
Honestly starting from “not being neutral”, I declare that I am Muslim, establishing my point of view upon the Quranic duality of “creation and legislation.”

(أَلَا لَهُ الْخَلْقُ وَالْأَمْرُ تَبَارَكَ اللَّـهُ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ) سورة الأعراف/54
(Are not both creation and legislation his?) 7/54
Or
(is not it his to create and govern?)​



The true religion and the duality:
Side by side to any machine you buy, the manufacturer provides you with a manual that guides you to the best use of it. Take “IPhone” smart phones as example. Which provider – in your opinion- would be best able to provide you with a guide of use, of maintenance, fixing issues?. it is Apple no doubt.
This is the same quranic duality we are talking about here. The manufacturer is – simply- the best legislator (manual provider).
So, whenever you find a religion that guides you to both the view & the conduct that best fit the reality, then congratulations. You have just found Truth.
In my opinion, this is the major – rather - the only criteria, to examine the authenticity of a religion to the creator of the universe. Whenever the legislative paradigm of a religion contradicts with the paradigm of our universe’s reality, you undoubtly have the proof of the falsehood of that religion in your hand.

Viewing Quran as a “code of conduct” for existence
Is it acceptable?
Once again I confirm my point of view. The true religion is the one which provides you with the view of things (life, existence, Man and his position …..etc) that best fits with the reality (that you can see your eyes and touch your hands) of these things.

But, does Quran represent such existential manual?
Looking for a simple and direct answer, let us examine two quranic themes, through which we can reach a judgment on that.
The first theme is: the quranic principle of honoring Man, where the recital is: establishing Man’s existence, from its first moment of being, upon knowledge,
The second theme is: God’s identity & entity in Quran, and how it is totally different from all the known holy books.

The first theme
The Quranic principle of “honoring Man”
Where the recital is:
Establishing Man’s existence, from his very first
Moment of being, upon knowledge​


In the dialogue between the Creator and his angels 2/30-34, (remember not to copy and paste your believes about the nature of God or angels, from whatever religion you believe in, here), which represents a unique context that encompassed gradients that have never been repeated or accompanied each other in any other quranic chapter (or even in any other holy book), the respectful Creator of the universe commenced with informing his angels that:

وَإِذ قالَ رَبُّكَ لِلمَلـٰئِكَةِ إِنّى جاعِلٌ فِى الأَرضِ خَليفَةً ۖ
قالوا أَتَجعَلُ فيها مَن يُفسِدُ فيها وَيَسفِكُ الدِّماءَ وَنَحنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ
قالَ إِنّى أَعلَمُ ما لا تَعلَمونَ ﴿30﴾ وَعَلَّمَ ءادَمَ الأَسماءَ كُلَّها
ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُم عَلَى المَلـٰئِكَةِ فَقالَ أَنبِـٔونى بِأَسماءِ هـٰؤُلاءِ إِن كُنتُم صـٰدِقينَ ﴿31﴾
قالوا سُبحـٰنَكَ لا عِلمَ لَنا إِلّا ما عَلَّمتَنا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ العَليمُ الحَكيمُ ﴿32﴾
قالَ يـٰـٔادَمُ أَنبِئهُم بِأَسمائِهِم ۖ فَلَمّا أَنبَأَهُم بِأَسمائِهِم
قالَ أَلَم أَقُل لَكُم إِنّى أَعلَمُ غَيبَ السَّمـٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضِ
وَأَعلَمُ ما تُبدونَ وَما كُنتُم تَكتُمونَ ﴿33﴾
وَإِذ قُلنا لِلمَلـٰئِكَةِ اسجُدوا لِـٔادَمَ فَسَجَدوا
إِلّا إِبليسَ أَبىٰ وَاستَكبَرَ وَكانَ مِنَ الكـٰفِرينَ ﴿34﴾
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels:
"I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said:
"Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?
Whilst we do celebrate Thy praise and glorify Thy holy (name)?"
He said: "I know what ye know not."
And He taught Adam the names of all things;
then He placed them before the angels, and said:
"Tell Me the names of these if ye are right."
They said: "Glory to Thee: of knowledge we have none, save what Thou hast taught us:
in truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names.
" When he had told them, Allah said:
"Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heavens and earth,
and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
And behold, We said to the angels:
"Bow down to Adam:" and they bowed down: not so Iblis:
he refused and was haughty: he was of those who reject Faith.
Chapter 2 – 30/34​


In brief, this text represents the core of all Quranic teachings. Let us now go through analyzing it.
The Creator informed his angels about the vicegerent he is about to create. But such vicegerent must be granted both authority and esteem, which were explained in another quranic chapter:

وَسَخَّرَ لَكُم ما فِى السَّمـٰوٰتِ وَما فِى الأَرضِ جَميعًا مِنهُ ۚ إِنَّ فى ذٰلِكَ لَـٔايـٰتٍ لِقَومٍ يَتَفَكَّرونَ
And He has subjected to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth
All from Him.
Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.
45/13​

In this first example, Quran used specific expressing way. It said
“Whatever is in heavens, and whatever is in earth?”
It did not say “subjected you heavens and earth.”no. instead, it pointed out that the subjection encompassed all whatever in heavens, and all whatever in earth.



Accordingly, and in a third verse, Quran gives an examble of how that subjection included every thing in all heavens:
1. اللَّـهُ الَّذى خَلَقَ سَبعَ سَمـٰوٰتٍ وَمِنَ الأَرضِ مِثلَهُنَّ
Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments
And of the earth a similar number
(Chapter 65-verse12)​

Here in that verse, Quran (1400 years ago) tells its followers (Muslims), that such subjection of the whole universe, included the subjection of 7 earths. the first of which we have already been enjoying for millions of years, while there are another 6 reserves kept for us, to be used in case we destroyed the first the same savage way we did in Hiroshima & Nagasaki.
According to the main verse with which I commenced this section, the subjection has included the whole heavens (including the 7 earths ).
What we have been seeing and reading about the efforts exerted by NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, are all just the first step towards the utilization of such subjection.
Following, would be some detailed examples. Thanks for your patience.

Now, let us get back to the main stream. The dialogue between the Creator and his angels, which shows the honorable status granted to that Creature “Man”.
After informing angels with the creation of that vicegerent, the Quranic context depicts how angels got confused with creating a creature that has the ability to commit Evil side by side to the ability of doing Good!
The angels could not match such colossal honoring, with the ability of committing Evil. They did not understand then, that, eliminating Evil from that Creature’s existence would deprive him from the most beautiful thing in that existence. It is the freedom of choice. According to the Quranic view, the angels should not have gotten confused. The Creator did not want a creature that innately does Good only, otherwise he would be making a replica of the angels. This time, he wanted to make a creature that has the freedom (and most importantly) the ability of choice. So when he refrains from Evil, he does so willingly, not as a response to his good nature just like angels.
Let us go further in the dialogue. After seeing such colossal honoring, and after knowing the dual nature of that Creature, angels proposed them selves as a better substitute. They derogated that Creature with two shortcomings while praised themselves with two merits:
قالوا أَتَجعَلُ فيها مَن يُفسِدُ فيها وَيَسفِكُ الدِّماءَ وَنَحنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ
They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?
Whilst we do celebrate Thy praise and glorify Thy holy (name)?"
He said : “I know what you do not know”​

Then, the context heads another direction, where it mentions that the Creator (following the first dialogue with the angels) bestowed Adam (the honorable creature, and the first human) with another gift (in addition subjecting the whole existence to his interest) which was:
وَعَلَّمَ ءادَمَ الأَسماءَ كُلَّها ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُم عَلَى المَلـٰئِكَةِ فَقالَ أَنبِـٔونى بِأَسماءِ هـٰؤُلاءِ إِن كُنتُم صـٰدِقينَ
And He taught Adam the names - all of them.
Then He showed them to the angels and said,
“Prove that your objection was funded,
And Inform Me of the names of these,”​

Please note here that what he shown them (in the second dialogue with them) were not the names he taught Adam. What he shown them, was things of which he taught Adam (the first human) their names.
But why names? Why not verbs, or adjectives …?
The answer as some educationalists stated is: names are the first alphabet of knowledge. When the kid goes to KG1 , he first learns (only) names, such as: tree, cat, flower, sun, building. After that, school can educate him (and his mind can assimilate) more advanced language structures, such as implanting a tree, taking care of a cat, irrigating grass, harvesting a field….etc. Names then are the alphabet of knowledge, and knowledge is the underpinning of Man’s existence from his very first moment of being. in addition, knowledge represents the tool by which he will utilize such colossal subjection of the whole universe around him.
We should not void the rest of that scene here. Where the first human where taught directly a type of knowledge that angels (despite their high esteem before the Creator) do not have.
If you scrutinize the scene carefully, you would find that the Creator did not make the initiative and told the angels from the beginning that he is about to create a creature that will be of that higher esteem and of more perfect knowledge, no. he gave them just a glimpse and let them wonder and inquire, then he honors that Creature with such utilization tool (knowledge represented in names),then comes back to them, showing then ingredients of existence of which he asks them about their names, but when they admit that they lack such knowledge and see their own disability clearly, he does not answer them by his majesty. He gives the first human another honor over the angels. He summons the first human, and commands him to answer them, to show them practically, that he has the advantage over them (knowledge that will enable him to utilize the subjection of the universe (you can call it science if you like):

قالوا سُبحـٰنَكَ لا عِلمَ لَنا إِلّا ما عَلَّمتَنا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ العَليمُ الحَكيمُ ﴿32﴾
قالَ يـٰـٔادَمُ أَنبِئهُم بِأَسمائِهِم ۖ
They said: "Glory to Thee: of knowledge we have none,
save what Thou hast taught us:
in truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom.
" He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names."
Chapter 2-32/33​

Yes, it is a scene to show honor. A scene where (as example) an omniscient majesty goes through a symposium with other scientists, but when they get confused with his omniscience, he does not eliminate their confusion his self. He summons his most perfect student before them, and asks him with them deeply amazed, to furnish them with what they did not know. To show them, that he is the one who deserves the whole universe to be subjected to him (the first human), not them (the angels here).
Then comes the last part of the dialogue, where the honor that is given to Man, reaches its peak. One last scene, that sums up all what could have been said, and all what will have been said:
وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ
And [mention] when We said to the angels,
"Prostrate before Adam"
2-34
​




Epilogue
The dialogue is all about knowledge.
It speaks about that honorable Creature for whom the whole universe has been prepared and subjected. When angels could not match between the honors he had been granted, with his dual ability of Good & Evil, they announced their inquiry. Given their good innate nature, they proposed them selves as a better substitute to receive such colossal honoring instead of the first human. The Creator did not accept. And to show them the advantage of the humans over them, he taught Adam all the names. The names of every element of the existence. as names are the alphabet of knowledge and the tool with which he could utilize the huge subjection of the universe around him. And so, the Creator taught the angels the first lesson about the Human’s advantage over them. It is that specific knowledge they don’t have (call it the alphabet of science if you like) but the Human does. After teaching the Human that knowledge, the Creator displayed all things before angels, then asked them to tell him what is the tool with which they can deal with these things (names). He did not take the initiative and told them that he is about to create a unique Creature, of whom his existence would be established upon knowledge. No. he gave the dialogue its normal stream, so they wonder about the merits of that Creature compared to them, propose them selves as a better substitute, then got asked to prove their claimed merit. When they can not (we do not the names of these things. This is knowledge you gave Adam only). After admitting their disability, the Creator summons that honorable Creature, of whom the angels envied. Step forward Adam; tell them what they did not know.
From the very first moments of Quran & Islam, Muslims knew the higher esteem of Man.

وَلَقَدْ كَرَّ*مْنَا بَنِي آدَمَ وَحَمَلْنَاهُمْ فِي الْبَرِّ* وَالْبَحْرِ*
وَرَ*زَقْنَاهُم مِّنَ الطَّيِّبَاتِ
وَفَضَّلْنَاهُمْ عَلَىٰ كَثِيرٍ* مِّمَّنْ خَلَقْنَا تَفْضِيلًا

We have honoured the Humans;
Provided them with transport on land and sea;
Given them for sustenance things good and pure;
And conferred on them special favours,
Above a great part of Our Creation.
Chapter 17- verse 70​
The honor is for all Humans, not for Muslims only, neither for believers only. As knowledge is the basis of Man’s existence. Not an advantage the biblical God had been careful to deprive him from.
After the first Human had taught the angles what they did not know (according to Quran, not to bible), they were commanded to prostrate before him, as a way of admitting his unmatchable merit.
وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ
And [mention] when We said to the angels,
"Prostrate before Adam" 2-34​
Appendix one
Some examples for the subjection of “whatever in the earth”?
Let us take 3 examples, all extracted from 3 documentaries produced by the prestigious channel: National Geographic. The channel for which I am really grateful.

The first documentary:
Spoken about the miraculous design of the the chicken’ egg. In that documentary, 2 jeopardous scientists, taken one “Opel Victra” car from the cemetery of the cars, put it under huge car crusher, then –surprisingly- put that crushed car upon a package of eggs, without the eggs getting crushed. Please do not stop or get amazed here. Because after few seconds of the first experiment, they crushed another Opel car, then put it upon the first (now they became 2 cars) both upon the same eggs package. The eggs did not break. The eggs were all raw, not mature. The design of the egg enables it to tolerate the weight of the chicken which is about 100 times in weight. Not end of the story. The two scientists, turned into the biggest dam in USA, the Hoover dam. In the diaries of the architecture of the dam (written 100 years ago) they found that basic design from which that architecture taken the design of Hoover dam, was the exact design of the egg. Not only that design enabled the architecture to build a dam that blocks the huge pressure of the river, but also it enabled him to pave the top of the dam to be an excellent bridge that connects the two banks of the river.

The second documentary:
Spoken about eagles of different clans. One of which performs marvelous aerial maneuvers, from which the astonishing American jet fighter F22 has taken its wings’ design. The changes in design, the way the wings are bent through the aerial maneuvers, the way the tail of the plane rotates..etc, are all taken from that small eagle.




The third documentary:
Spoken about the “folk echo” (annual roses fair in Taiwan). The architectures team that was required to make a revolutionary design for the fair’s building, and after unnumbered tries, finally found that they can take the revolutionary design of which will be built from vacant re-cycled plastic bottles, from the form (the shape) of bees’ cells.
That design enabled the architectures team, to make a whole building (of multiple floors) that received thousands of visitors (of the fair), although built only from vacant re-cycled plastic bottles. Thanks to the design of bees’ cells.



Kindly, visit My last post here:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=103617
 
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So, the Quran is the best because it praises knowledge and the use of knowledge to do cool things on the Earth. But could not knowledge be valued without this (I believe) false introduction of a person who granted us the ability to gain knowledge? I have a better explanation, we evolved to become smart animals. The only way that would happen is that being smarter provided a material advantage. We develop a culture that appreciates the use of knowledge as a consequence of it's clear advantages. We write a book that describes us in grand terms and that pleases us. We say isn't it the best that this book praises us for something that is so demonstrably good? Therefore, all the creative assertions in the book must also be true.

I find no logic to your arguments and quite a lot in favor of my explanation. We like to be told we are the center of everything, just like a gorilla male likes to be the alpha. A non dominant male is never completely satisfied with himself. Additionally, this is a good explanation for why Islam is male dominated. It's primate politics projected large with a global and universal viewpoint.
 
It's about the self-induced macho Arabic role-playing of the 70's, and the archaic face-shrouded subservient women who enabled the theatrics....

I swear, I was standing there in an outdoor market, looking at rabbit-fur mittens, and this arrogant "Nights of Arabia" prince wanna-be with his scabbard in plain view, his shy veiled princess accomplice walking behind him, and a burly mountain man has enough of this intimidation passion play, and pulls off her face veil.
Guy pulls blade, other guy steps back, woman goes back behind veil.

I guess I looked like a captive audience starving for entertainment back then.
I've grown.
 
With religion, I've noticed that it indeed follows the trends in human social development. People imaginatively give meaning to life based on what has been happening around them, which, in turn, exerts influence back onto culture in a feedback loop.
 
cleese said:
The first part would be a detailing of how Mankind is honored in Quran. While the second part would be about detailing the same point, but from the Biblical point of view.
Click to expand...

Where's the biblical part you promised?

Also, please explain to me how your opening post is not preaching a sermon.
 
Cleese will never follow up on this or discuss the topic. These thoughts are not his own.
 
James R said:
Where's the biblical part you promised?

Also, please explain to me how your opening post is not preaching a sermon.
Click to expand...

I found it refreshing the notion that the Angels could be conceptualized as less rounded in depth, than Humans...kind of like servant drones, to serve mankind. I don't remember that concept in a fabricated tale before.
 
a faithful comment of your comments

may i wonder whether any of you already read the article?
the main idea of the article is that, the true religion (authenticated to the Creator) is that the one which gives you the paradigm that best suits the reality. it is the duality of creation & legislation.
this dialogue had been set 1400 years ago, in a terrain that had never known a philosopher or even a thinker. but it it says that Man is the most honorable entity in this universe, for whom the whole universe is subjected, and whose interested - accordingly - is the most served one. can't you see that it is already how things are?
if you look around you, you would find that from the shine of sun to the soil worm, all serving the human existence. not only the state of all existence's forms on earth, but also outside it. if you preferred to be blind to all of this, and saw your self just a kind of a smart animal, sadly, it is up to you Mr smart animal.
but once again. here is an example of a religion, that gives its followers, from its first moment, from its second chapter, the aspect of honor that dyes their entity as human beings, telling them that their predecessors were not of the same state of ignorance just like monkeys, and lastly provokes them to utilize from such a colossal machine of creation that has been subjected to them, by such a joyable tool, knowledge.
if you ever would imagine an authenticated religion,or recommend people a religion, would you depict it in a way better than this?
the article is to be continued with the other 2 parts, but "though" is as "carl young" said once, can never be revised except by another "thought". and i am posting this first article here, to receive your comments, and to scrutinize them faithfully. so thanks
 
It is possible that the guide you use to judge religious systems has been created by the religious system being judged.

It is possible that a human-created religion would tend to stroke our egos by telling us we are at the center of everything on Earth.

It is possible that the design of bee's cells is the natural result of having to use space most efficiently and not as a result of a super smart guy in the sky.
 
sir

would you kindly use the logic rule that entails the following:
first: be sympathetic to the other view, get rid of - temporarily - your ideology that represents the glasses through which you see the world around you, so you can understand the other views as they were intended.
second: you can judge them after that. obviously you did not follow that order.

how about reading a philosophical text made by a philosopher of a different view? would not you read it carefully first, then think whether it applies to reality? if it is correct, then it is correct. you must accept it.

but starting from that "i dont believe in a religion, all are false, all explanations are just fudged", you will never enjoy reading others' views.
 
This is me being sympathetic. I'm questioning your basic premises but it is you that seems unable to consider another point of view.
 
the main point of view

please stop for one second, and think of it.
is there a way that through which you can verify that a religion is authenticated to the Creator?

my point of view - that might be wrong - is that : if the Creator has created the universe according to a paradigm, then, the best proof of a religion that claims that this Creator revealed it is that: its legislative paradigm coincides with the paradigm of the reality of that universe.

now tell me. if you checked the reality around you. can you say that all the universe around you serves your existence? yes or no ?
is every thing around you is made to serve your existence ? yes or no ?
are you the most prestigious creature -at least yet to be known- in this universe according to your mind qualities and abilities? yes or no?

if yes, then the religion that told you about such honorable statue, is authenticated to the Creator. because this is the same truthful verifiable principle, you can see in the duality of "machine+ its manual"

thanks
 
There are literally millions of cultures on the planet. They all consider their own culture to be "coinciding with the paradigm of the reality of that universe".

Everything around me is NOT made to serve my existence. There are creatures that specifically target me, borrow into my skin, and use me as a breeding ground for more of their kind, leaving me sick if not dead. Is this the perfection the creator has in mind for us?

Humanity is certainly an accomplished creature, but having a book that says how great we are is no proof that all the other things in that book are also true.

Buddhism also places human beings on the highest place of existence, the result of endless rebirths that went positively. Does that mean Buddhism is just as good as Islam? Yes or no.
 
my answer to your brilliant last comment is No

of course my answer is no.
firstly, i admit that i have not read about Buddhism and its view of Man. you are extremely welcome to make the comparison, and guide me to your own conclusions.
secondly, this is not Islam. what you have read about, is just a glimpse extracted from a wholeness called Islam.
it is not easy to write a single essay that comprehends all about a religion. i just made this article as an introduction.

as to harmful - from just the first instance - creatures such as viruses. you should first scrutinize the issue of Evil. does Evil brings any Good to existence? would we miss something beautiful if we do not have Evil in our world?. in my opinion, of course yes. Evil completes (side by side to Good) the beautiful meaning of life and existence. and so viruses, cancer, illness ... death.

so again. what i mentioned is not all about the Islamic view. no. it is just one aspect, the others are to follow, specially compared to the biblical believes.

thanks
 
Does the tsetse fly serve your existence? the swine flu virus? the tapeworm? malaria parasite? the guinea worm? the ascaris worm? the avalanche? hurricane? earthquake? tsunami? etc, etc. The universe and everything in it serves you no more than it does a pig. The concept that the universe serves man in particular is unfounded and seems egotistical to me.
 
I have heard that argument before and it's perverse. Can I come to your house and give you the guinea worm? It would make you appreciate life so much more. [rolleyes]

Your description of Islam as a whole and perfect system is obviously flawed if you don't know anything else. ...If you never heard of how other people practice religion or non-religion. I'm sure a cow that never saw a field thinks it's barn with an endless supply of hay is just the best thing ever.
 
sir
i am still standing for my point of view. yes, all these disasters serve the beauty of you existence. you just did like mr spidergoat did. you extract one element of the whole story, then evaluate the whole picture according to it. kindly, study the matter of Evil first, then you will get peace of mind.

when a human is hit by a virus, he is the only creature that can invent medicine to treat his illness. while he is searching for a treatment, he will discover marvelous aspects about existence around him, aspects he would never push his self to do, unless he is hit by this virus or that illness. then, he makes the treatment that adds a lot to the lives of others. maybe he also reach a phase where he can subject even harmful viruses to his own will and interest. you are not hit with all illnesses and sickness forms. but when you are, you experience would enrich the life of others. please read "the silent spring". it is a scientific view- simply- made about what you call "Evil".

thanks
 
Then may I please cut off your arms? You will learn to appreciate better all life has to offer. If not you are just being deceitful.

I will gladly respond to a larger point if you wish to make it.
 
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