the problem with god

[Balerion]

This is a perfect example of a moral decision. Jesus could not sin and still be Son of God. I don't know what the theological complications are - it sounds as if Jesus could forfeit His divine nature - but "the truth made the decision"

OK, but isn't that conjecture? We are never shown that he is capable of such a thing.

You might compare it to a person whose moral conviction is so strong that it prevents him from ever taking a life. The possibility is just as open to him as to anybody else, but at the same time it isn't. Morality

Yes, and on that note, has it ever occured where a man threatens to take a life despite knowing full well that he never could do so, for the sake of something else? (Intimidation, gathering followers, ect., ect..) What I'm saying is that he isn't proving anything by saying that, though it appears he's trying to get the point across. His statement of "Do you not think I couldn't call on my father?" is no different from me saying "Do you not think I could reach for my gun right now?" But who's to say I really have a gun?

Without self-control, what would people be? If something requires patience and understanding, how could it be achieved without patience and understanding?

Fine, and isn't it nice that the story has a moral? How convienient...

It looks a lot like the Biblical mystery of how God could simultanously harden the pharao's heart without touching his freedom to decide. The more I think about it, the more certain I become that it has something to do with a limitation in thinking on our side. I mean, we can easily imagine how a normal man can simultaneously be both a father and a son, but take away the artificial distance of "time" and it's another story...

If you can believe for one second that a hardened hard doesn't affect someone's choise, I don't think your score would register on an IQ test. The very nature of a "hardened heart" is that a person is turned cold to something or someone or a situation, and due to that, their vision is clouded and biased about it from then on. So to say that God hardened Pharao's heart without touching his freedom to choose is an oxymoron.

You know as good as I that God's unquestionable might is not beneficial to our salvation.

Not the biblical God, anyway. His might is used only for destruction or to instil fear into us. He never thwarts the true "bad guy" in the Bible, only the one's who don't believe in him. And being one of those who has a hard time believing in him, I can tell you that such a position doesn't make you bad, just unsure. Is that a crime worth damnation?

What is the greatest problem people have with God? That He is too powerful, that He would not concern himself with puny humans or tolerate their injustice - that might all be true, but where does it leave us?

I wouldn't say that. I would say that the greatest problem people have with the Christian God is that he hasn't made himself verifiable. You have to make a leap of faith to believe, something that is impossible for some people to do. But yes, god is portrayed as a vengeful, imposing, intimidating force that sometimes punishes for no reason, never feels the need to explain himself, and has created us for no other reason than to worship him. This all-powerful being is very frustrating.

God would indeed have shown that He has nothing better to do but wave His power around like a bully. You for one must admit you would have liked God even less if He made himself undeniable

It's not that I don't like God, it's that I don't know if he exists. I think you're missing something in my argument of God showing himself to the masses, and that's that it doesn't need to be in a forceful manner; Jesus didn't have to slaughter the Roman army, but at least he could have made the angels appear and watch the proceedings.

What makes the situation unfair is that he isn't undeniable. We, as people, according to various religions, are told that we have two paths: The first is submitting to God and finding salvation, while the second is not accepting him and becoming an empty shell; a lost soul. That, while harsh, shouldn't be a tough choise. The twist comes with the realization that God isn't material; you can't see him, touch him, taste him or hear him. The best you can do is read the texts, listen to the theists and historians, and make a choise from there. Your best educated guess you can make is that the god of the Bible and other religion texts are highly unlikely, but what are you left with then? Eternal damnation? Being on the wrong side of the road on Judgement Day?

JD