The Perpetual Motion of Evolution:

[pluto2]

Don't give him so much credit.
He's just a guy with an opinion and an internet connection. Knowledge is not a requirement.

Don't be such a dumbass.

From my experience I can live for millions of years unless I get seriously injured.

Evolution cannot explain this therefore it's false regardless of what you say.

 

[DaveC426913]

From my experience I can live for millions of years unless I get seriously injured.

From your experience. So you have experienced living a million years. That's what you're saying.

And then you contradict it by saying humans cannot live longer than 125 years.

So your assertion is that you are not human and have lived a million years.

 

[paddoboy]

Evolution is false in my opinion.

Your opinion then obviously reflects the mind of someone that has been utterly brainwashed by some other mythical nonsense, that of which we won't go into at this time.
Suffice to say, Evolution is a fact of life: You need to live with that.

But in my opinion I can live for millions of years unless I get seriously injured.

If one human being can live can live for millions of years (and maybe even billions of years) and evolutionary theory cannot explain why that is then evolutionary theory is obviously false or at best a very incomplete theory.

That's nothing but fairy tale nonsense and does nothing except reflect the ignorance of your posts.

 

[Write4U]

One thing is abundantly clear, Evolution itself follows a probabilistic variable self-iterating fractal function. As the fractal function allows for expression in our reality the number of variables is unlimited, with the caveat ; subject to the probabilistic function of *natural seletion*.

I am fascinated with fractals and believe that the fractal function is fundamentql to space itself.
Here is the function displayed in a broccoli;


Fractal

A fractal is a natural phenomenon or a mathematical set that exhibits a repeating pattern that displays at every scale. It is also known as expanding symmetry or evolving symmetry. If the replication is exactly the same at every scale, it is called a self-similar pattern. An example of this is the Menger Sponge. Fractals can also be nearly the same at different levels.
Fractal - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

 

[exchemist]

From your experience. So you have experienced living a million years. That's what you're saying.

And then you contradict it by saying humans cannot live longer than 125 years.

So your assertion is that you are not human and have lived a million years.

Got it! He's a sock of Marvin, the paranoid android.

 

[exchemist]

One thing is abundantly clear, Evolution itself follows a probabilistic variable self-iterating fractal function. As the fractal function allows for expression in our reality the number of variables is unlimited, with the caveat ; subject to the probabilistic function of *natural seletion*.

I am fascinated with fractals and believe that the fractal function is fundamentql to space itself.
Here is the function displayed in a broccoli;


Fractal

A fractal is a natural phenomenon or a mathematical set that exhibits a repeating pattern that displays at every scale. It is also known as expanding symmetry or evolving symmetry. If the replication is exactly the same at every scale, it is called a self-similar pattern. An example of this is the Menger Sponge. Fractals can also be nearly the same at different levels.
Fractal - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

This does not seem clear to me, at least.

Can you provide an example? Or refer me to a source that does so?

 

[Write4U]

This does not seem clear to me, at least.
Can you provide an example? Or refer me to a source that does so?

IMO, The fractal function of the universe allows for consistent patterns to develop, by which we can use our maths to represent the function.
a) A triangle fractal is the simplest form of an enclosed and measurable area (plane) with a mathematical equation.
b) The mathematical instructions* for fractal iteration is very simple, a plus in a fledgling evolving universe.
(c) The fractal function by Renate Loll, et all, named "Causal Dynamical triangulation" (CDT), has currently generated renewed and increasing interest in this area of cosmology.

The beauty is that CDT is *background* independent, which suggest a self forming dynamic process, starting with simple iteration and exponentially expanding in size and complexity as space and everything that's contained within the structure...

Examples are available in an unimaginable numbers, because fractals give form and infinite variety.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fractals in nature&qs=SC&sk=&FORM=QBIR&pq=fractals in naturee&sc=8-19&sp=1&qs=SC&sk=

If these examples do not speak of a natural *common denominator*, I must be reading more into the fractal occurrence in nature and function of the universe.

IMO, it is the next step in the hierarchy of a mathematical universe. If not mathematical, then we would not be able to assign values and equations to the *unfolding* (evolution) of the universe.

 

[exchemist]

IMO, The fractal function of the universe allows for consistent patterns to develop, by which we can use our maths to represent the function.
a) A triangle fractal is the simplest form of an enclosed and measurable area (plane) with a mathematical equation.
b) The mathematical instructions* for fractal iteration is very simple, a plus in a fledgling evolving universe.
(c) The fractal function by Renate Loll, et all, named "Causal Dynamical triangulation" (CDT), has currently generated renewed and increasing interest in this area of cosmology.

The beauty is that CDT is *background* independent, which suggest a self forming dynamic process, starting with simple iteration and exponentially expanding in size and complexity as space and everything that's contained within the structure...

Examples are available in an unimaginable numbers, because fractals give form and infinite variety.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fractals in nature&qs=SC&sk=&FORM=QBIR&pq=fractals in naturee&sc=8-19&sp=1&qs=SC&sk=

If these examples do not speak of a natural *common denominator*, I must be reading more into the fractal occurrence in nature and function of the universe.

IMO, it is the next step in the hierarchy of a mathematical universe. If not mathematical, then we would not be able to assign values and equations to the *unfolding* (evolution) of the universe.

Ah, so no examples, but a switch into a Bold font, then?

I thought as much: it seems to be just another of your vague - and completely unmathematical - notions about "functions".

 

[Write4U]

Ah, so no examples, but a switch into a Bold font, then?
I thought as much: it seems to be just another of your vague - and completely unmathematical - notions about "functions".

I just showed you "natural" fractal structures in bio-chemistry. There are thousands more in other areas of universal functions. I see a clear connection to our term *fractality* and observable functions in all of the universe. It is a common denominator in all things, a universal mathematical constant

P.s. my eyesight is getting poor so the bold helps me read and edit. I have no illusions of trying to intimidate anyone, in any of my posts.

 

[exchemist]

I just showed you "natural" fractal structures in bio-chemistry. There are thousands more in other areas of universal functions. I see a clear connection to our term *fractality* and observable functions in all of the universe. It is a common denominator in all things, a universal mathematical constant

P.s. my eyesight is getting poor so the bold helps me read and edit. I have no illusions of trying to intimidate anyone, in any of my posts.

This has nothing to do with what you were claiming about evolution, though!

This is about natural processes of growth.

Two different things.

 

[Write4U]

exchemist said,
"
]This has nothing to do with what you were claiming about evolution, though!
This is about natural processes of growth. Two different things.

I disagree. Growth is perfectly equatable to evolution.

A few more examples of evolutionary fractal growth patterns.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=growth%20evolution&qs=n&form=QBIRMH&pq=growth%20evolution&sc=4-16&sp=-1&sk=
and
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Tree Growth Stages&id=641C2E264E316A4F9D34D8BB7342F6DE3676CD46&FORM=IDBQDM

 

[gmilam]

From my experience I can live for millions of years unless I get seriously injured.

Really? How old are you?

 

[origin]

Don't be such a dumbass.

From my experience I can live for millions of years unless I get seriously injured.

Evolution cannot explain this therefore it's false regardless of what you say.

This is one of the more bizarre post I have seen on the forum.

 

[exchemist]

I disagree. Growth is perfectly equatable to evolution.

A few more examples of evolutionary fractal growth patterns.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=growth%20evolution&qs=n&form=QBIRMH&pq=growth%20evolution&sc=4-16&sp=-1&sk=
and
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Tree Growth Stages&id=641C2E264E316A4F9D34D8BB7342F6DE3676CD46&FORM=IDBQDM

What? Growth of an organism and evolution of a species are clearly utterly different processes. Growth operates on a single organism, during its lifetime and involves only one fixed copy of the generic material. Evolution involves a whole population, over many thousands of generations, and depends on changes to genetic material.

Your link is just a load of random pretty pictures of growing things.

Have you had a head injury recently, or what?

 

[Write4U]

What? Growth of an organism and evolution of a species are clearly utterly different processes. Growth operates on a single organism, during its lifetime and involves only one fixed copy of the generic material. Evolution involves a whole population, over many thousands of generations, and depends on changes to genetic material.

IMO, that is a narrow view of evolution. I am not equating growth with evolution, I am proposing a perspective that there is a strong connection between evolution and the ability to grow and procreate. In nature this process of beneficial changes may take long periods of time as a natural probabilistic process.
OTOH, on farms we find human selection of specific desired traits. The Sex Link chicken was specifically bred to lay many eggs but NOT brood them. In nature this species would have not survived for very long, but in the protected area of the farm and plenty feed, it thrives and produces marketable eggs.

Your link is just a load of random pretty pictures of growing things.

That was to illustrate the fractal nature of growth by natural selection, IOW evolution.

I am looking at this from an overall perspective of related natural functions which result in the constant evolution (or devolution) of all things.

A definition of growth can be applied to anything which is in process of increasing in size.

However, in the wild, the exponential function eventually results in over-crowding and natural selection will cull the growth and size of the flock . IOW, stop further growth in size of the flock through shorter lifespans or the size (growth of the chickens.
A goldfish (carp) in a bowl will stay small, but release it into the wild and it may grow to several pounds and ten times its size. A goldfish is a pygmy carp.

One of the reasons why on small islands most species are small (pygmy species) and require less resources. See Bartlett on the Exponential function.

Here is an example of CEO's of large companies discussing *growth v evolution"

Many influences in the IT channel, from vendors to managed services providers, have felt a continual need to grow. Vendors, other MSPs and peer groups are encouraging MSPs to grow larger by boosting their sales, taking on more clients, and hiring more staff. From the increased revenue to more opportunities, there are many reasons that are attractive for growing larger.
However, Zach Mesel, CEO of Wooden Spoon Technologies based in Santa Rosa, CA, has a fresh perspective on the need to expand and grow his business. “Replace the word grow with evolve,” he says.
Zach was at a conference chatting with fellow MSPs, when one of them suggested evolving his MSP, rather than merely growing it. “The idea right away was really soothing to me,” claimed Zach. [/quote]

Thus there is a direct connection between growth and evolution. One major difference is that there are limits to growth time of individuals because it has natural growth limitations in its DNA, but evolution and natural selection continue unrestricted and all things are subject to evolutionary functions, which result in beneficial or detrimental results in the growth of anything.
Time of growth or evolution are irrelevant in the greater context of universal functions.

 

[billvon]

I agree strongly with your position . As an example virus contain DNA or RNA without mechanics of enzymes and other components will go no were.

News Release
Scripps Research Scientists Develop First Examples of RNA that Replicates Itself Indefinitely Without Any Help from Biology
Findings Could Inform Biochemical Questions about How Life Began

LA JOLLA, CA, January 8, 2009—One of the most enduring questions is how life could have begun on Earth. Molecules that can make copies of themselves are thought to be crucial to understanding this process as they provide the basis for heritability, a critical characteristic of living systems. Now, a pair of Scripps Research Institute scientists has taken a significant step toward answering that question. The scientists have synthesized for the first time RNA enzymes that can replicate themselves without the help of any proteins or other cellular components, and the process proceeds indefinitely.

 

[Write4U]

News Release

Scripps Research Scientists Develop First Examples of RNA that Replicates Itself Indefinitely Without Any Help from Biology
Findings Could Inform Biochemical Questions about How Life Began

LA JOLLA, CA, January 8, 2009—One of the most enduring questions is how life could have begun on Earth. Molecules that can make copies of themselves are thought to be crucial to understanding this process as they provide the basis for heritability, a critical characteristic of living systems. Now, a pair of Scripps Research Institute scientists has taken a significant step toward answering that question. The scientists have synthesized for the first time RNA enzymes that can replicate themselves without the help of any proteins or other cellular components, and the process proceeds indefinitely.

Another example of the fractal function in chemistry. Robert Hazen had a lecture on this very subject at the Carnegie Institute for Science. Start the clip @ 25:00 (its a lengthy introduction)

 

[exchemist]

IMO, that is a narrow view of evolution. I am not equating growth with evolution, I am proposing a perspective that there is a strong connection between evolution and the ability to grow and procreate. In nature this process of beneficial changes may take long periods of time as a natural probabilistic process.
OTOH, on farms we find human selection of specific desired traits. The Sex Link chicken was specifically bred to lay many eggs but NOT brood them. In nature this species would have not survived for very long, but in the protected area of the farm and plenty feed, it thrives and produces marketable eggs. That was to illustrate the fractal nature of growth by natural selection, IOW evolution.

I am looking at this from an overall perspective of related natural functions which result in the constant evolution (or devolution) of all things.

A definition of growth can be applied to anything which is in process of increasing in size.

However, in the wild, the exponential function eventually results in over-crowding and natural selection will cull the growth and size of the flock . IOW, stop further growth in size of the flock through shorter lifespans or the size (growth of the chickens.
A goldfish (carp) in a bowl will stay small, but release it into the wild and it may grow to several pounds and ten times its size. A goldfish is a pygmy carp.

One of the reasons why on small islands most species are small (pygmy species) and require less resources. See Bartlett on the Exponential function.

Here is an example of CEO's of large companies discussing *growth v evolution"
Thus there is a direct connection between growth and evolution. One major difference is that there are limits to growth time of individuals because it has natural growth limitations in its DNA, but evolution and natural selection continue unrestricted and all things are subject to evolutionary functions, which result in beneficial or detrimental results in the growth of anything.
Time of growth or evolution are irrelevant in the greater context of universal functions.

This rambling reply is why I occasionally lose patience with you. The thinking is so vague and woolly that it becomes meaningless to me. Of course there is a connection between growth and evolution, because living things do both: grow and evolve. But you claimed something very specific: that it is "clear" that "evolution itself follows a probabilistic variable self-iterating fractal function". You have come nowhere near substantiating that.

And I am not going to watch an hour of a tedious lecture in the hope it may, somewhere, provide an answer. If you think that lecture substantiates your claim, then you find and write down a quote from the video that does so, tell me at what time in the video it occurs, and then I'll watch that segment.

 

[Write4U]

This rambling reply is why I occasionally lose patience with you. The thinking is so vague and woolly that it becomes meaningless to me. Of course there is a connection between growth and evolution, because living things do both: grow and evolve. But you claimed something very specific: that it is "clear" that "evolution itself follows a probabilistic variable self-iterating fractal function". You have come nowhere near substantiating that.

a) Survival is to preserve what is.
b) Growth is to extend horizontally what is.
c) Development is to seek new ways radically different from the old.
d) Evolution is to grow into a new higher structure, which is radically different from development.

We see these various stages are found in each of these four stages. Evolution struggles to survive, grow horizontally, develop new ways of existence and can evolve higher levels of existence.

http://humanscience.wikia.com/wiki/Survival,_Growth,_Development_and_Evolution

And I am not going to watch an hour of a tedious lecture in the hope it may, somewhere, provide an answer. If you think that lecture substantiates your claim, then you find and write down a quote from the video that does so, tell me at what time in the video it occurs, and then I'll watch that segment.

I did suggest to start the clip @ 25:00. Did you miss that, perhaps?

Furthermore, if you want to skip the question period after the presentation, the entire lecture lasts perhaps 15 minutes. But you have already watched this clip and commented on it before.
I reposted it mainly for general viewing. Please do not discourage new viewers. It's really a very interesting presentation.

p.s. Note that Hazen had high hopes for the probability of chemical RNA , which now has become fact (in a lab no less). I like it when little pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

 

[exchemist]

http://humanscience.wikia.com/wiki/Survival,_Growth,_Development_and_Evolution I did suggest to start the clip @ 25:00. Did you miss that, perhaps?

Furthermore, if you want to skip the question period after the presentation, the entire lecture lasts perhaps 15 minutes. But you have already watched this clip and commented on it before.
I reposted it mainly for general viewing. Please do not discourage new viewers. It's really a very interesting presentation.

p.s. Note that Hazen had high hopes for the probability of chemical RNA , which now has become fact (in a lab no less). I like it when little pieces of the puzzle fall in place.

I can only repeat: none of this justifies your claim.