The Paul File

[adoucette]

Currently, the government is suppressing cleaner energy technologies just so the EPA, cap and trade, global warming, and all this other false paradigm crap can grown and fester.

Oh come on quit spouting total BS.

The Dept of Energy's many programs, http://www1.eere.energy.gov/wip/eecbg.html
http://www.eere.energy.gov/topics/solar.html
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/wind/
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/
http://www.eere.energy.gov/

The National Renewable Energy Lab's many programs (as in Fuel Cells),
http://www.nrel.gov/

The new higher CAFE standards, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy#cite_note-42

The uncapped Federal Production tax credit of 2.2¢/kWh for wind, geothermal, closed-loop biomass and 1.1¢/kWh for other eligible technologies for the first 10 years of operation.

The uncapped Federal Corporate Tax Credit for Solar Water Heat, Solar Space Heat, Solar Thermal Electric, Solar Thermal Process Heat, Photovoltaics, Wind, Biomass, Geothermal Electric, Fuel Cells, Geothermal Heat Pumps, CHP/Cogeneration, Solar Hybrid Lighting, Fuel Cells using Renewable Fuels, Microturbines and Geothermal Direct-Use (Amount: 30% for solar, fuel cells and small wind; 10% for geothermal, microturbines and CHP)

There are a lot more.

 

[Michael]

I personally took a stake in a bio-fuel start up. They seem to be doing OK, but, it's a 10-15 year wait and see how the technology develops.

People fix problems, not governments

 

[adoucette]

I personally took a stake in a bio-fuel start up. They seem to be doing OK, but, it's a 10-15 year wait and see how the technology develops.

People fix problems, not governments

Governments are made up of people.

Governments fix problems on a scale that individuals (and even states) can't.

 

[Billy T]

Governments are made up of people. ...

You stopped too soon. More accurate in the US is:

"Governments are made up of people who the rich and corporations want elected badly enough to pay the huge cost of campaigns."

 

[adoucette]

luckily there are rich people on both sides of the issue and so ultimately you can't buy an election

 

[Michael]

Governments are made up of people.

Governments fix problems on a scale that individuals (and even states) can't.

What would some examples of problems only central governments can fix.

 

[adoucette]

What would some examples of problems only central governments can fix.

National Defense
Monetary Policy
Trade and other relations with foreign countries.
Border security
EPA type regulations
DOE type research
FEMA type disaster planning
Interstate commerce
NASA
FAA
CDC
NOAA
Coast Guard
National Transportation System
National Park System
Nuclear Regulations and Waste Storage
come to mind

 

[Michael]

National Defense
Monetary Policy
Trade and other relations with foreign countries.
Border security
EPA type regulations
DOE type research
FEMA type disaster planning
Interstate commerce
NASA
FAA
CDC
NOAA
Coast Guard
National Transportation System
National Park System
Nuclear Regulations and Waste Storage
come to mind

I agree with:
National Defense
Trade and other relations with foreign countries.
Border security
Interstate commerce
NASA
Coast Guard


--
Monetary Policy: So, you don't think the Federal Reserve (a private bank) is the most appropriate? You'd prefer to have the Central Bank under the DIRECT control of Congress, not an unelected Technocrat moron like Greenspan or Bernanke? That's a surprise. I didn't know that.

--
These I'd have to think about in more detail. I already think the EPA should be run at the local level.

EPA type regulations
DOE type research
FEMA type disaster planning
FAA
CDC
NOAA
National Transportation System
National Park System
Nuclear Regulations and Waste Storage


--
Where Paul stands:

Eliminate five Cabinet-level departments: Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education.

He has called for elimination of other federal agencies such as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Homeland Security,[citation needed] the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),[citation needed] the Interstate Commerce Commission[citation needed] and the Internal Revenue Service,[19] calling them "unnecessary bureaucracies"

I didn't see a number of these on your priority list.

 

[Michael]

luckily there are rich people on both sides of the issue and so ultimately you can't buy an election

Two side of the same coin the way I see it.
AND I think you agree most of these "issues" are just plain false dichotomy.

 

[The Esotericist]

 

[Giambattista]

luckily there are rich people on both sides of the issue and so ultimately you can't buy an election

Two side of the same coin the way I see it.
AND I think you agree most of these "issues" are just plain false dichotomy.

luckily there are rich people on both sides of the issue and so ultimately you can't buy an election

You can't play both sides of an election? Really?
No one can finance both sides and hope that either side comes out on top?
Your reasoning comes across as shallow, Arthur. It isn't just two sides competing. There are at this time many candidates on one side, and only one on the other. You're saying certain interests could never benefit by supporting two different people in either Republican or Democrat parties.
Utter bullshit.

As long as your campaign contributions are concentrated on the right people, anyone can easily win by supporting two people on two supposedly differing sides. As long as ONE of the two wins.
Hedging bets?

 

[The Esotericist]

luckily there are rich people on both sides of the issue and so ultimately you can't buy an election

 

[adoucette]

As long as your campaign contributions are concentrated on the right people, anyone can easily win by supporting two people on two supposedly differing sides. As long as ONE of the two wins.
Hedging bets?

Anyone who contributes to both sides of an election can be ignored.
That strategy means they will still be on your side come next election.

 

[Billy T]

luckily there are rich people on both sides of the issue and so ultimately you can't buy an election

That may be true for many issues that don't effect most rich people the same way, but try finding many rich people who think capital gains should be taxed at same rate as salary income or that GWB’s tax reductions on the wealthy should terminate, etc.

Also I said "and corporations" for example drug companies ALL want their elected congress people keeping lower cost drugs from Canada etc. out of the US. etc. Their economic power is far greater than the other side's so Americans must go to Canada to buy drugs at half the US prices or less.

I will grant that in some cases the economic power of the two sides of some issues is nearly equal but this is the exception not the rule. For example, American Electric Power, AEP, was when I owned their stock 35 years ago,* the US largest coal fired generator. I am sure they lobbied hard against the new EPA rules on CO2, SO2, and several health damaging agent released by coal combustion, as they will soon have significantly greater generation costs, but oil companies, wind & solar companies, and many other electric companies had more funds to spend on lobbyist so the EPA went with the richer groups desires. They will pick up the load AEP will not serve and benefit from the higher cost per KWH.

* I was living in Maryland with AEP supplying my electricity. I bought enough stock so dividends paid my electric bill. - This policy makes you neutral (not care) if the public service commission grants a rate increase or not.

Note this post replaces what was post 1006. My ISP went down for hours. So am re-posting here after the edit I wanted to make for post 1006.

 

[adoucette]

Monetary Policy: So, you don't think the Federal Reserve (a private bank) is the most appropriate? You'd prefer to have the Central Bank under the DIRECT control of Congress, not an unelected Technocrat moron like Greenspan or Bernanke? That's a surprise. I didn't know that.

The Federal Reserve System is not a private bank.

According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government."

Its authority is derived from statutes enacted by the U.S. Congress and the System is subject to congressional oversight.

The members of the Board of Governors, including its chairman and vice-chairman, are chosen by the President and confirmed by the Senate. The government also exercises some control over the Federal Reserve by appointing and setting the salaries of the system's highest-level employees.

Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects. The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits

IMHO the Fed seems to be working reasonably well.

 

[The Esotericist]

Anyone who contributes to both sides of an election can be ignored.
That strategy means they will still be on your side come next election.

When the interests are this powerful, no, they cannot be ignored. Not when they control the entire economy and the nation's destiny.

Usually you post pretty intelligent things. This is the most sinister anti-democratic thing you have ever posted. It just proves to me that you are working for someone, being paid by those who support these candidates, or just plain dumb.

The logical course of action when you come to this conclusion then, is to vote for a candidate that isn't being supported by an interest that pulling the strings of "both" sides.

You see, right there, it's an illusion. Although we have a democratic and republican party, and these interests are contributing to "both sides," there are no substantive differences between the two parties. They only differ on minor socially divisive and outward cosmetic issues. The core issues they don't differ on. You say, "both sides," but there aren't "both sides."

The real "both sides" are right now. It is between Ron Paul, and Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney is for the same interests as the POTUS. If Dr. Paul loses the nomination, the nation is sunk. We get the globalist's agenda. Obama's George H.W. Bush's agenda wins whether he is re-elected or not.

Now that you have admitted that the fix is in. . . if you weren't a shill, the logical response to change and fix the broken system would be to necessarily vote for true representation.

 

[adoucette]

Where Paul stands:

Eliminate five Cabinet-level departments: Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education.

He has called for elimination of other federal agencies such as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Homeland Security,[citation needed] the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),[citation needed] the Interstate Commerce Commission[citation needed] and the Internal Revenue Service,[19] calling them "unnecessary bureaucracies"

I didn't see a number of these on your priority list.

My list wasn't exhaustive.

Simple question, do you think what these agencies do is not needed?

Because if it is needed, moving things where you want consistent standards, like Homeland Security to the States hardly makes sense.

Similarly, FEMA coordinates the Federal response to emergencies. Are you saying the Fed will have no role in Katrina size events?

I'm also curious as to how he proposes to do away with the IRS

 

[eyeswideshut]

Similarly, FEMA coordinates the Federal response to emergencies. Are you saying the Fed will have no role in Katrina size events?

So, how did that work out ?

 

[adoucette]

When the interests are this powerful, no, they cannot be ignored. Not when they control the entire economy and the nation's destiny.

That was a hypothetical.
Can you name an entity that gives huge sums of money to both sides?

Usually you post pretty intelligent things. This is the most sinister anti-democratic thing you have ever posted. It just proves to me that you are working for someone, being paid by those who support these candidates, or just plain dumb.

How is it anti-democratic?
Money helps get their message out.
You can't communicate your position to 200 million Americans without spending a bundle.

The logical course of action when you come to this conclusion then, is to vote for a candidate that isn't being supported by an interest that pulling the strings of "both" sides.

Again, I don't know any that are. Generally groups side mainly with one person running for one office. On the other hand, some groups support both Dems and Repubs, but not typically for the same races. (Repubs and Dems overlap quite a bit in the middle)

You see, right there, it's an illusion. Although we have a democratic and republican party, and these interests are contributing to "both sides," there are no substantive differences between the two parties. They only differ on minor socially divisive and outward cosmetic issues. The core issues they don't differ on. You say, "both sides," but there aren't "both sides."

Really?
I think they have substantive differences.
Others here, seem to think so.
Quad, Tiassa and Joe can't say the word Republican without spitting.

The real "both sides" are right now. It is between Ron Paul, and Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney is for the same interests as the POTUS. If Dr. Paul loses the nomination, the nation is sunk.

Your opinion, but then you are a Paulista and well, that sorta says it all.

Now that you have admitted that the fix is in. . . if you weren't a shill, the logical response to change and fix the broken system would be to necessarily vote for true representation.

I take it by that you mean we all need to vote for Paul?

LOL

 

[The Esotericist]

The Federal Reserve System is not a private bank.

Yes it is. Liar.


"The Federal Reserve-A Corrupt Institution
"Mr. Chairman, we have in this Country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal
Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed. The Fed has cheated the Government of these
United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the Nation's debt. The depredations and
iniquities of the Fed has cost enough money to pay the National debt several times over.

"This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of these United States, has bankrupted itself, and has practically
bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the
maladministration of that law by the Fed and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

"Some people who think that the Federal Reserve Banks United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies
which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and
domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lender. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those
who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into states to buy votes to
control our legislatures; there are those who maintain International propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us into granting
of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of
crime.

"These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this Country by the bankers who came
here from Europe and repaid us our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of
this Country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help
that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and Russia, and thus drove a wedge between the allies in
World War. They financed Trotsky's passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in the destruction of the
Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian Revolution, and placed a large fund of American dollars at
Trotsky's disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up
and Russian children flung far and wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun breaking up of American homes
and the dispersal of American children. "Mr. Chairman, there should be no partisanship in matters concerning banking and
currency affairs in this Country, and I do not speak with any.

"In 1912 the National Monetary Association, under the chairmanship of the late Senator Nelson W. Aldrich, made a report
and presented a vicious bill called the National Reserve Association bill. This bill is usually spoken of as the Aldrich bill.
Senator Aldrich did not write the Aldrich bill. He was the tool, if not the accomplice, of the European bankers who for nearly
twenty years had been scheming to set up a central bank in this Country and who in 1912 has spent and were continuing to
spend vast sums of money to accomplish their purpose.

"We were opposed to the Aldrich plan for a central bank. The men who rule the Democratic Party then promised the people
that if they were returned to power there would be no central bank established here while they held the reigns of government.
Thirteen months later that promise was broken, and the Wilson administration, under the tutelage of those sinister Wall Street
figures who stood behind Colonel House, established here in our free Country the worm-eaten monarchical institution of the
"King's Bank" to control us from the top downward, and from the cradle to the grave.

"The Federal Reserve Bank destroyed our old and characteristic way of doing business. It discriminated against our 1-name
commercial paper, the finest in the world, and it set up the antiquated 2-name paper, which is the present curse of this Country
and which wrecked every country which has ever given it scope; it fastened down upon the Country the very tyranny from
which the framers of the Constitution sough to save us."

– The Honorable Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee in the 1930s

http://www.nogw.com/download/_07_1934_mcfadden_on_the_fed.pdf

IMHO the Fed seems to be working reasonably well.

Of course it is. That's what your paid to say.

A central bank exacerbates and causes economic problems and concentrates the wealth of the nation in the hands of the elites. It starts wars and corrupts the political processes of the ship of state.