The Para People

[PsychoticEpisode]

People who claim they have some type of paranormal ability. Are they disturbed or do they need to feel special? Are they unwitting or genuine frauds? Are they suffering from some deep neurosis or revelling in the belief they have been given a gift from whatever or whomever? Are they influenced by the many forms of media? Are their imaginations out of control? Are they experiencing some kind of narcotic effect from chemical imbalances in the brain?

To prove a point, when I was a bit younger I slept in haunted houses, cemeteries, and even pitched a tent on a battlefield and never experienced any spookiness. Sure I heard noises but nothing unusual. I was hoping but nothing showed up. Tried everything from Ouija to ESP testing, had a few coincidences along the way but again, nothing major.

Hallucinatory drugs were excellent for a vision or two. You'd swear they were real. Hell, I even had a conversation with Christ, flew around with God and levitated above my bed all in one night after a bad pizza with magic mushrooms. Most kids experiment with a drug or two and I wonder if at some point people accept hallucinations or don't recognize a vision as a product of a stimulated imagination. Are the Para People somewhat schizo, in another reality all to themselves? Hearing voices & seeing apparitions that are real for them but not to a skeptic like myself.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

My observation has been that most of the time para-people are just satisfying various normal emotional needs with fantasy.

 

[Enmos]

People who claim they have some type of paranormal ability. Are they disturbed or do they need to feel special?

What's the difference really ?

 

[sowhatifit'sdark]

My observation has been that most of the time para-people are just satisfying various normal emotional needs with fantasy.

Well, there's a hypothesis. You know I am sure what you need to do for it to be anything more than that.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I would bump it up to a thoery. There is quite a bit of supportive evidence for it.

 

[Tnerb]

And then there are the regular people. Who are the same as the para people. Who have these abilities. Where as all people have these same abilities. And the ability is nothing more than as qq is saying but mixed in with the reality of it. ...... The fact that everyone can effect some sort of a presense or effect to other people is interesting and also deluded. However real it actually is. Some might fall down their own hole.

 

[Yorda]

to say that people who can do telekinesis (for example) are delusional is like saying that people who can do lucid dreaming are delusional. lucid dreaming is a fact, but there are actually people who have never experienced it.

people who say that para people are delusional are delusional... they live in their own little universe and think that anyone who is different must be sick.

 

[Jozen-Bo]

existabrent

Thank You!

Yorda

Thank You!

I think the original question is loaded with biased implications. It automatically assumes something is wrong with the "para people" who are classified as having a problem. So...I will provide an equally biased question from the other end of the spectrum:

What is wrong with 'normal' people? Are they just plain stupid or are they lesser forms of life? Is there something missing in their spiritual development? Are their para-abilities retarded by their small minded perception? Do they lack the curious nature to investigate the possibility of human potential at its peak? Why is it that they seem to be destroying the planet, giving their "clarity" of awareness? Are they lazy? Are they not so in the majority as they think...considering the entire world population. (take India for example- where para is normal!). Is there any hope for them at all?

I asked these questions being as biased as I could to make a point. They are the counter questions to the opening questions of this thread, which are subtle attacks and very assuming. As existabrent put it, we all possess the potential to manifest "para" abilities. If humanity ever gets around to understanding and manifesting such abilities, they will cease to be considered odd, and be instead considered as normal as having eyes to see with.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

to say that people who can do telekinesis (for example) are delusional is like saying that people who can do lucid dreaming are delusional. lucid dreaming is a fact, but there are actually people who have never experienced it.

That's might be the worst example I have ever seen. Dreams are natural human hallucinations (sometimes with added simulation... ex. threat simulation -often considered nightmares-). Brain activity can be measured while dreaming consequently. A lucid dream is a just like every other dream except the dreamer recognizes that the experience is hallucinatory. That is not really a stretch or anything fantastic. It doesn't violate existing knowledge of reality, it is not illogical, and it arises from something very self evident... the human ability to compare information (in this case, memory of reality vs. dream experience).

Telekensis on the other hand is the supposed ability to move external objects using nothing but thought. This of course means it is demonstrable to other people. 100% of all telekensis claimers on this site of have failed to perform and 100% of all telekensis claimers on this site have a deep rooted psychological need for fantasy.

A big part of the issue is that such people have very strong imaginations and soceity doesn't provide any serious outlets for intense fantasy. Because of that, alot of these people are put into a situation where releasing their imagination any way they can is a top priority and this of course acts as a rather large obstacle to attaining self-honesty and understanding truth.

people who say that para people are delusional are delusional... they live in their own little universe and think that anyone who is different must be sick.

Everyone is delusional about something... there are no exceptions. I think it might be classified as a sickness if it hinders your ability to survive or the ability of others to survive.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Lets take a look at it draqon. Explain a typical future seeing experience from start to finish.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I saw 911 happen, six months before it happened. I used to live 2 miles away from WTC, on the NJ side. I saw it happen, except without any planes. I saw white mushroom cloud rise above the two collapsing towers covering them. I also heard some sort of high pitch noise of many people, what seemed to me 1000 of people crying. It was a dream like no other.

I usually have dreams of collapsing elevators and me in them or huge floods.

How did you see it happen and what exactly did you see? For example, its not clear if this occured while you were dreaming or awake. What point of view were you watching from? Describe what the buildings you saw looked like... etc... etc... (that white mushroom cloud was a good description by the way). Take it from start to finish and leave no detail out.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I am going to label my responses 1)...n) as I will come back to them at the end for a summary.

I see future only dreams and only when I am deep asleep.

1) Ok so we've established you were dreaming.

I cannot disclose you all the details as I saw it in such detail that it would single out my location entirely.

2) Not exposing all the details will only server to work against the claim.

I will say this that after a dream of me going wandering through part of a city on NJ side I came to what looked like a many stories' ship (50 stories and high). Suddenly the ship started deforming and its shape changed into what looked like a building, there were many people running amock in it, I felt fear and immedeatly wished my away from the place...the setting changed for me there, as I was running away/floating away from the place.

3) Dreams often have environmental morphing so that is normal. You saw a building, saw people running, and felt fraid.

Everything seemed to slow down, it felt as though I could not run at all, my movement were slower and slower the more I wished to run away.

4) Everyone experiences that in dreams at some point or another when trying to escape a threatening adversary or situation.

Than the setting changed for me there, I was riding in a car with my mother along the river and there it was,

5) Another normal environmental morph.

I saw the two towers with white mushroom cloud forming and rising above them, the buildings were engulfed in this white/grayish smoke...the cloud rose up into the sky.

6) You saw a white mushroom cloud above and both buildings being engulfed by white/greyish smoke.

I felt afraid and I heard a slowly starting to a more higher high pich noise of many people screaming, except only I heard it while riding in the car, when I asked my mother who was driving the care if she heard it, she replied no she did not.

7) You were scared in the car with your mom and heard many people screaming at increasingly higher pitches.

Than we started heading away because I felt that it was a nuclear cloud but it looked weird since it was very white cloud...I felt fear and I heard that high pitch noise of many people in agony....of course the noise was very low volume for me, like I could barely hear it all in my dream.

And thats the dream...well one of the future dreams I had/have

8) You feared it was a nuclear attack and still heard the high pitch (but low volume) screaming.



Now lets sum things up and apply a little thought to some of the details.

1) and 2) established that you experienced the above while dreamining (a well-known form of natural human hallucination with optional simulation) and did not yield all the details.

3) and 5) demonstrate environmental morphing which shows that you were still dreaming at those times (as opposed to experiencing objective reality in the future).

4) demonstrates common dream obstacles during dream threat simulation; thus, establishing you are still dreaming (as opposed to experiencing objective reality in the future).

6) does not correspond to the WTC event. There was no white mushroom cloud and by the time both toweres were engulfed in smoke... the smoke was black and grey (not white and grey).

7) is your location (car with your mother and proximity to the WTC) at a particular moment. Did that moment repeat identically in real life? I would bet the answer is not.

8) showed a fear of nuclear attack.

The inconsistency of 6) shows that you did not perceive the future and your answer to 7) is likely going to re-confirm that. Your fear of nuclear attack is shown in 8) and 1), 3), 4), and 5) clearly demonstrate that you were dreaming as opposed to experiencing objective reality.

The conclusion: You did not perceive the future. What you did experience was a threat-simulation dream based on your fear of nuclear attack. I suspect that this analysis (backed by quite a bit of evidence mind you) will be rejected because of the firm 'belief' that you can see the future. You obviously have good imagination and express it with the attractive notion that you have a magical power to see the future. With no real outlet for that imagination, this is how you release it and it acts as an obstacle for truth and / or self-honesty.

 

[draqon]

I don't need you to believe me.

I know what I saw.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

I don't need you to believe me.

I know what I saw.

Thanks to your description, I also know what you saw. Truth is the conformity of a concept or notion in the mind to actual reality and evidence is a demonstration of that conformity.

There are two concepts involved:

A: You experienced a threat simulation dream.
B: You perceived the future.

The evidence you provided conforms to concept A perfectly and has no conformity with concept B.

While I realize you will reject this, at the very least you are demonstrating how expressing your creative psychological needs really conflicts with truth and / or self honesty. Whether you realize it or not, a genuine outlet could help you remove that conflict.

 

[Yorda]

Dreams are natural human hallucinations (sometimes with added simulation... ex. threat simulation -often considered nightmares-).

some day in the future telekinesis will be as normal as dreams. in the past when people were more evolved it was normal.

Telekensis on the other hand is the supposed ability to move external objects using nothing but thought.

telekinesis is absolutely natural. objects are not external, everything is connected by thoughts. it's not more magical than the fact that we can move our body with our thoughts, we've just gotten used to that so we no longer wonder about it.

Everyone is delusional about something...

not me...

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Your last statement contradicted all the others . Your imagination is likely one of the biggest ones on this site and you're doing a great job of proving my point.

 

[Tnerb]

Telekenisis is bullshit.
It is highly improbable that telekenisis exists in the form in which many percieve.

It is impossible to direct someones body in a way which thier body is the others. Or the object of wood, you would infact have to be dead to project the death of your body onto the wood.
It is highly impossible to direct someones body in a way in which their body is moving the other body. The only way that this were possible in my experience is that the person infact, is dead. There are many para questions. Is it possible for a living individiuals only power to exist soley in their own death? If this is so then imagine for a second what I am saying! This rasies the question of what is death, what is life, what is normality, and such and so on and to ad infinitium. Highly related to this topic!!!

What can occur in the human being? Is this EVEN REMOTELY tested on infitium? Of course it isn't. Were it ENTIRELY we WOULD NOT have all of these questions constantly raised by everyone involving such things as telekenisis as well as control of other bodys or rather simply the control of wood itself, or stone--- as in the movie star wars! for crying out loud!

It is obvious that this topic is one of heated debate and discussion and it appears that we will never have it answewred or it will continue to be discussed for endless ages across sciforums as well as encyclopedias and other amazing internet forums across the internet.

Now, I have edited this post to simply clarify, as that apparently is something that I am not good at. The refutation of telekenisis that I had refered to in the unedited post refered to at yorda saying that this is a perfect refutation of telekenisis is something that indeed do I hope that he would have taken under consideration however
the moving of wood and such is possible how?
The controlling of others is possible how?

THESE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED SEVERAL LOCATIONS AS WELL AS IN MY OWN MIND IF ONE FEELS FREE TO ASK.
Something like this is a perfect refutation of telekensis. I hope that Yorda will take the explaination seriously?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

I know what I saw.

Have you falsely confessed to any murders lately? Honestly man, people who claim to have predicted events, after they happen, are no different then false confessors. Do you think False confessors have a screw loose or are they acting normal?

In my OP I said I personally had contact with Christ and God. Do I really think so? NO! Was it a hallucination, a dream, a figment of my imagination? YES! Do I feel normal? DAMN RIGHT!

Memory of an event is not as reliable as film footage.

 

[Tnerb]

Previous post edited dramatically.

 

[Jozen-Bo]

I would like to provide an one more example of a loaded and highly offensive question, that is in no way really a question so much as it is a statement dressed up as a question.

PsychoticEpisode, why are you such an idiot?

(I am not really asking you this and I don't think you are an idiot...I just want you to see how offensive a loaded question can be.)