The other option about God and Religions

melodicbard

Registered Senior Member
What do you think of these scenarios?

1. There is no God, human existence is the result of a random physical and chemical interactions.
2. There is/are a God or Gods, and one or more existing religions accurately describe the situation (possibly with some kind of divine guidance)
3. There is/are a God or Gods, but NONE of the existing religions accurately describe the situation. Some dotrines of the religious groups or organizations are not true.

By the term God, he/she/it may not have these attributes : ominpotency, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, etc. He is just an intelligent being (not an automata) that created us.

I would say option 3 is often overlooked. If people want to believe in 'God', they would just select a religion more palatable to them.

But this is the order of my belief:

3, 2, 1
 
4. There is no god, sentient life is the probable rresult of physical law.

That'd be what is listed as 1. ;)

My belief is somewhat like 3 in that there is/are God(s) that have created us and no existing religions accurately described it all, but the God(s) that created us are not the original Almighty Creator of All God. I believe God and our creator(s) to be two different things.

- N
 
i would definately believe in #1..
As for 3, if a God did exist, He would have to be something other than what religion describes, because we have no way of directly knowing anything about Him. Choice 2 would be by far the least correct, but i beleive choice 1 to be by far the most correct..
My belief would be 1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3,2
 
He would have to be something other than what religion describes, because we have no way of directly knowing anything about Him

There you go with your agnosticism again! ;)

- N
 
*************
M*W: Welcome to the wonderful and weird world of sciforums Religion!

For me, it's 1-3-2.
 
melodicbard said:
What do you think of these scenarios?

1. There is no God, human existence is the result of a random physical and chemical interactions.
2. There is/are a God or Gods, and one or more existing religions accurately describe the situation (possibly with some kind of divine guidance)
3. There is/are a God or Gods, but NONE of the existing religions accurately describe the situation. Some dotrines of the religious groups or organizations are not true.

By the term God, he/she/it may not have these attributes : ominpotency, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, etc. He is just an intelligent being (not an automata) that created us.
# 1 makes the most sense,
if there was god,what created it?
if theres gods (non omni) why call them God?
what would/could they do?
it looks like the Universe is our creator ;)
 
another point to be made is that the physical and chemical interaction are not exactly random. I believe that evolution runs on contigiencies...which means one thing leads to another, not by necessity, but by physical law. Evolution isnt exactly directed to be more complex, but its not random either. It follows its own laws and contigiencies that could never be predicted, but can be seen in retrospect...

Greg
 
*************
M*W: Let me throw this out at ya! A while back, I made a statement that I believe the original god of the OT to be nothing more than electricity -- the 'elecktrikus'. Prior to coming to that conclusion, I believed god to be a pure force of positive energy that indwelled with all creation, more specifically, humanity. Then, as I gave it more thought, I studied about the Ark of the Covenant and how powerful it seemed to be. Now, I believe the Ark contained some kind of battery or generator. Back some 5,000 years ago, batteries were known to have existed. In fact, one such battery was in the Baghdad Museum. Who knows if it's still there?

Interestingly, these ancient batteries had a mid-polar piece with a coil circularly rising around the center piece. This object had healing powers and the whole visual of it became the symbol of the cadeuces -- much like a serpent coiled around a tree -- meaning healing and wisdom.

I believe the 'Big Bang' happened more slowly. In fact, I would say that the 'Big Bang' goes on as we speak. You know, kinda like the ripple effect. We're still in the process of evolution. Some people say, "God isn't finished with us yet." I'd rather say that we're not finished with ourselves yet.

Also, not too many moons ago I came up with the idea that God is Humanity ergo Humanity is God. If that's true, then the whole point of who or what god is has been direly missed. Look how much progress us human beans have made! We are now able to regenerate organs with the use of autologous stem cell transplantation from bone marrow. That's been used for years now. Now we're realizing the next best thing to embryonic stem cell transplantation. It's being done all over the world except here in the USA. Well, I really won't go so far to say that it's not being done here -- we just haven't heard about it.

I know some scientists in Germany who are using the female ovum and transplanting it into hearts and other organs. Surely no one can complain about that! It has a very good success rate for regenerating the myocardium.

The advantage in this country is that stem cell transplantation can be done in private facilities where no federal funds are endowed.

That's getting off point. What I was trying to say is that we've come a long way, baby. I believe we have what is called genetic memory. All the knowledge of the universe, including whether or not there is a god out there, is stored in the human brain. What we don't realize is that we are god. In the not too far future, we will be able to live longer than ever before. I believe we will actually be able to attain eternal life in vivo.

That which I previously called the One Spirit of God, or the electricity that powers us, is what I thought was our eternal divine 'spirit.' I still feel that humanity is divine (more so than any other powerful deity out there), but what I have called our 'spirit' is nothing more than electrical impulses.

And why shouldn't we be divine? The random-type process you mentioned I believe was caused by electrical storms during the early 'Big Bang' when the ice caps melted from the warmth of the sun, and vast waters covered the planet. Again, the warmth of the sun and the thunderstorms and lightning striking the waters created the perfect ecosphere for life. The rest is history.

There is no god other than humanity. What the ancient ancestors of the Hebrews called 'El' and 'Eloh,' and the ancient ancestors of the Muslims called 'Al' and 'Allah' are the same word source. They both mean 'god.' Interestingly, 'Helios' is the Greek word for 'sun.' Our early ancestors worshipped the sun as their god, and probably, 'Helios' is where 'hell' came from. They feared this uncontrollable god who could blind them if they looked directly in it's face.

My conclusion is, there is no god but 'el-ecktrikus.'
 
if there was god,what created it?

That question will exist for whatever we find is the origin of all creation. If it was God that has always existed or if it was the universe that has always existed, we will always ask that question as to who and what created God or who and what created the universe. It's an endless question that other sides use to try and prove the other side's position false which just flat out won't work. It's a question we'll never be able to answer.

it looks like the Universe is our creator

*yawn* Boring. Try another approach. Tiresome argument that never ends as mentioned above.

if theres gods (non omni) why call them God?

Because they seemed god-like with their power, knowledge, and technology. Just as what happened when we discovered the Americas or when the native peoples of South America or Africa saw a plane flying through the air or a man magically kill something with his explosive rod (rifle).

another point to be made is that the physical and chemical interaction are not exactly random.

Yep, things act the way they do, but why do they act that way? Who and/or what wrote those laws of nature to make things interact the way they do? Or do atoms just have free will and interact with certain other atoms because they're atom racists like us humans are? They don't wanna breed and bind with another atom because it's not like itself. And if it bumps into a different type of atom it doesn't like, bam, there goes a crazy discharge, but when it finds one it likes, it creates something. Great, psychology for atoms, lol.

That's all just another question on origins we'll never know. Who and or what created the laws of nature, who and or what created everything we see now. I mean hey, if God couldn't exist from the very begining when he's all-powerful, I guess the universe can't have always existed either so something had to create it too. Stupid, stupid, endless repeated, same questions thrown back and forth at each other. Just toss it up to we'll never know and hopefully that'll end all that endless bullchit.

- N
 
There is no god other than humanity. What the ancient ancestors of the Hebrews called 'El' and 'Eloh,' and the ancient ancestors of the Muslims called 'Al' and 'Allah' are the same word source. They both mean 'god.' Interestingly, 'Helios' is the Greek word for 'sun.' Our early ancestors worshipped the sun as their god, and probably, 'Helios' is where 'hell' came from. They feared this uncontrollable god who could blind them if they looked directly in it's face.

The only problem with trying to find out all the answers is that you're stopping mid-way in regards to where you're getting your information. Go back even further in ancient history to find your answers if you want to use ancient history as your base of information. Find the root of how and where the Greeks, Hebrews, and Muslims, got their information from. Not to say it's wrong, but it'll be a bit more accurate and you'll find even more interesting twists to add to your ideas as well. And that's just one of the things that irks me.. people seem to think that civilization and everything started during Judaism and Christanity, heh. Sorry but there's many years more to go so why does everyone stop during that time period to get all the answers, oy.

When you mention the Ark of the Covennant, I do believe it was an electric transmittor, but that still doesn't answer the question as to why it was built. Was it build just to be an altar in which they could see electric currents to see their God? The people were instructed by someone/thing to build that Ark. Those are the people whom were considered Gods. So if electricity is our God(s), how does that account for whom they received their divine commands from?

The Ark of the Covenent and the batteries of Baghdad weren't objects merely just to see electricity to worship, they served a purpose. The Ark was most likely some sort of communications device and the batteries of Baghdad were used for smelting gold and other metals onto their jewelry and other ornaments. I never heard about them being some sort of healing device before.

I do believe us to be able to become demi-gods in knowledg, power, and technology though so I'm with you on that. And I also believe electricity to be our "souls". It's what powers our body and it's what fades away when we die. Now whatever happens with that electricity, who knows, it could be mixed back up into the universe to mold with other energy to create new life (I made a post about this elsewhere).

But yeah, grr, dig deeper in your search when it comes to ancient history! :p

- N
 
Look how much progress us human "beans" have made!

Seems you've been eating a bit too much Mexican food there M*W. :D

Not wanting to pick on the mispelling however this one just craked me up. LOL.

I pick 1.

However I don't think anyone can outright claim "god does not exist" or that he does, no one can. For one to make such a claim one has to have evidence of their assertions.

Atheism as I deal with it, is the lack of belief, i.e. I don't believe in god, or that one exists, however I can't claim that I have evidence, empirically either way. For one would have to have a definition of what god is, and that's not been determined yet. To claim that something exists, one has to have knowledge of what that something is, since no one can explain to me, what god is, or what is not, I've determined by deductive reasoning that god not need exist, or that is very unlikely that it exists.

G.
 
Godless: Seems you've been eating a bit too much Mexican food there M*W. :D

Not wanting to pick on the mispelling however this one just craked me up. LOL.
*************
M*W: No, it's not the Mexican food I've been eating -- it's all the Margaritas!

I'm glad you had a laugh at my 'mispelling' -- it was quite the intentional sarcasm I am so well-known for. I remembered it from a comic book I read many years ago, I think it was Little Lulu who called the human race 'human beans.' I was actually attempting to call the human race 'bean brains.'

But, Godless, you made my day! You caught my 'error', and I'm glad you enjoyed it! You know you've got a friend when they really read your posts!
 
melodicbard said:
What do you think of these scenarios?

1. There is no God, human existence is the result of a random physical and chemical interactions.
2. There is/are a God or Gods, and one or more existing religions accurately describe the situation (possibly with some kind of divine guidance)
3. There is/are a God or Gods, but NONE of the existing religions accurately describe the situation. Some dotrines of the religious groups or organizations are not true.

By the term God, he/she/it may not have these attributes : ominpotency, omniscience, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, etc. He is just an intelligent being (not an automata) that created us.

I would say option 3 is often overlooked. If people want to believe in 'God', they would just select a religion more palatable to them.

But this is the order of my belief:

3, 2, 1
This is the order of mine:
2, "(3)", -1

:)
 
For me it would be 1, 3, 2.
3 above 2 because a god would be unknowable and religion tries to define god, i dont see how religion could ever be right as its mostly contradictory, but i dont rule out the possibility of god, only the god invented by man in the form of religion.
And 1 is top as god seems to not be needed, either he or matter in some form would have always existed, we know matter exists, we dont know god exists, and if he always existed to create matter, then why cant we cut out the middle man(or should i say god?) and assume matter has always existed, he isnt needed.
 
I'm agnostic so I guess that's 1 for the time being but not totally ruling out the possibility of god. It's a matter of waiting for hardcore evidence. The problem with 3 is that if you believe that there is some kind of creator but he hasn't "showed up" yet, then why doesn't he? Why is he hiding from us and allowing us to make up our own incorrect explanations (religions) for our existence?
 
melodicbard inquires
"What do you think of these scenarios
1)There is no God, human existence is the result of random physical and chemical interactions"

that is the scientific-mainstream materialist-physicalst-Darwinist view isn't it. that eventually consciousness 'somhow' spews forth from these 'chemical reaction' when they become 'complex matter'/brains
thing is there is the current 'hard problem' in science of struggling to understand consciousness, especially 'subjective' consciousness.
The prevailing view has us as 'biocehmical machines/ which when broken down need fixing ith chemical medication..ie., as in psychological......ie., this myth is a modern version of the old split between Nature and spirit. but whereas for that paradigm spirit was believed to be 'trapped' in 'nasty matter'...not they have domn away with spirit, called 'soul' 'mind' and see mind as a PRODUCT of matter, thus desacrilizing Nature, and others.
so it suks big style. out with this mindbdodyfuck myth

2/ There is/are Gods or Gods, and one or more existing religions accurately describe the situation (possibly with some kind of divine guidance)"

this myth went wrong when i believed in outside 'gods, dispensing with--being FORCEd to dispense with DIRECT FEELING via hallucinogenic inspiration. In that mode you are in a non-rational dimension. yo MAY meet spirits, etc. you may FEEL a god/dess....you go with the flow. and its essence is communion with Nature and one's natrual dynamic being.
But when that feeling was denied--sometimes through severs violence form the patriarchay, and twisted mythology, then we get gods-in-control having to be sacrificed to

so out with that shit!

3/ There is/are God(s), but NONE of the existing religions accurately desribe the situation. some doctrines of the religious groups or oeganizations are not true"

yes. they are authoritarian orgs who seek to make us feel bad about ourselves in our natrual being. so you get the 'all-good God, a 'HE'...women get blamed, homosexuals get blamed, hallucinogens, sexuality, dancing etc...we gt accused or orignal sin, or not being 'enlightened' etc. all of thesedevices are devised to keep us locked on an authority. our myth is objectifying us as biochemical machines who must work our arses off for th good of a war industrial fascist state. its god is PROFIT
 
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