Philosophy is for those who wish to analyze their fantasies.
The New Atheism
- Thread starter baumgarten
- Start date
Philosophy is for those who wish to analyze their fantasies.
People with knowledge of evolutionary biology who observe the fossil record. I hate to state the obvious but the millions of species (many of them remarkably linearly similar ie. tree of life), did not spontaneously appear, and with the mechanisms of evolution, specism is inevitable. How else do you explain the snapshot of species we see today? How did they get there otherwise? This is when you seem awfully short of offering alternative theories after dismissing scientific consensus.
If you think the only evidence is that which a human being was standing there to see it, then you are dismissing probably most of science. And as usual you dismiss it without a snidge of personal research.
KennyJC said:
No, that's not direct perception. That's inductive reasoning.
Well, yeah. About as strong as evidence for electrons, or the Krebs cycle. I'm just saying.
In theism at least you have the claim that there are persons on the platform of direct perception (Of course you can claim that such claims are not accurate, which is an argument that boils down to a challenge of authority, just like the example of the high school drop out challenging the claims of the physicist is a challenge to authority - in other words such a challenge is not very convincing unless one can establish one's credentials).
In regards to such claims of abiogenesis etc there is no such person. there is not even an agreed definition on when, how or what happened. In other words what to speak of lacking a credible authority, it also lacks a definition that illustrates process.
No - I don't have a problem with the measuring of a lizard's leg.
Nor do I have a problem with them measuring the length of a primates leg.
What I have a problem with is with the gap in credible perception of how the lizard's leg turned into a primate's leg.
then you have faith
That just doesn't happen. At least not overnight, so you're right, there is a gap
Nope. I understand how science works and have some small knowledge of the nature of electrons and evolution from which I have learned from respectable scientific sources. For the vast amounts I don't know, I respect those who have that knowledge.
?
Kenny
a saying
"Between the lips and the tea cup anything can happen"
still sounds like faith, ie accepting something as knowledge when it is beyond one's capacity to determine the exact truth of it, a perception that more exalted personalities advocate their stance comes from
a saying
"Between the lips and the tea cup anything can happen"
Well with an understanding of scientific consensus you wouldn't on hearing their statements think that all of science was trying to fool you. They would at least have damn good reasons for their theories and observations and interpretations of facts like gravity and evolution.
So this means that *BANG* today we found evidence that supports creationism and all our theories of evolution and evolution itself was false?
Kenny
)
Like for instance the presentations of metal alloy technology is more credible than anthropology, and it s misleading for you to borrow from the "prestige" of science in order for a uniform presentation of the degrees of credibility for all scientific disciplines
gravity is observable and measurable - the same cannot be said of evolution. Some disciplines of science are more credible than others, simple due to the highly speculative foundation of their theories (I remember one seminar i attended where the speaker was saying there is very little evidence for his theory but that should not be a cause for concern because there was absolutely no evidence for the previous theory the scientific community was working with
)Like for instance the presentations of metal alloy technology is more credible than anthropology, and it s misleading for you to borrow from the "prestige" of science in order for a uniform presentation of the degrees of credibility for all scientific disciplines
if a person is laying claim to direct perception of god/god's potencies at least it would be a logical claim
Kenny
gravity is observable and measurable - the same cannot be said of evolution. Some disciplines of science are more credible than others, simple due to the highly speculative foundation of their theories (I remember one seminar i attended where the speaker was saying there is very little evidence for his theory but that should not be a cause for concern because there was absolutely no evidence for the previous theory the scientific community was working with
Much of evolutionary biology is observable and well understood... but of course to see it's long term effects can't be done, but luckily we have the fossil record. Although I suspect that we would've arrived at our current theory of evolution without the fossil record - we do afterall have a world full of millions of species many of which show a clear lineage and relation. And if you followed OUR lineage way back in time, you would get to the point of the common ancestor that every living thing decends from. One has to wonder why it wasn't until the 19th century someone hit on this. Didn't any biologists kick themselves after Darwin?
Why? There is no observable view point with god. Evolution is entirely based on measured things.
I guess no one wants to discuss the social angle.
KennyJC
Why? There is no observable view point with god. Evolution is entirely based on measured things.[/QUOTE]
yes, there's just the small question of macro evolution ....
so in other words much of it is not observable
its not clear why you don't see anything dissimilar between tentative claims from a body of evidence and an observable fact
I can already guess that you like to guess
should I adopt the way we followed our lineage 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 20 years ago or should I us ethe present paradigm (or should I somehow leave the question open and unanswered to accommodate the inevitable change in paradigm that will occur in the next 50 years?)
Now you just have to find that one common ancestor - also observing how one species actually changes into another would also be helpful to your cause
As humans we just love to speculate
Why? There is no observable view point with god. Evolution is entirely based on measured things.[/QUOTE]