The limitations of the word God

[Quantum Quack]

Doesn't all this prove that the word God is very limiting.

SouthStars God vs Okinrus's God vs Katazia's God vs My God vs Jenya's God vs Mediicine Womans God vs your God vs.........etc etc.....

I Think I'll call my God "Tree" from now on......if you want a definition of my Tree then I'll be pleased to tell you......

 

[Katazia]

okinrus,

Katazia, what or who do you consider most important in your life?

In priority order - (1) Survival, (2) Personal Freedom.

I don't think your analogy to the Old Testament is fair. I do no consider worshiping God slavery but rejecting the things of the world which do enslave.

I was less interested in how people consider worship but more about trying to understand why a god requires worship – it seems like a meaningless and primitive request. Respect, understanding and cooperation would make sense – but ‘worship’?

Within God there's true freedom.

But that is not true. To reap the rewards promised by God you must obey his rules – you are certainly not free to do otherwise and still attain immortality. You are a slave to his bidding or you will be punished in a very permanent manner.

Kat

 

[Medicine*Woman]

SS said: "God is a proud God and He requires subservience and submission."
*************
M*W said: "He is a JEALOUS God who thought he was greater and more powerful than the matriarchal birth mother of creation, but he's NOT."
*************
SS said: "He created mankind to love Him and worship Him."
*************
M*W said: "He is a JEALOUS God who created us to enslave us for all eternity."
*************
SS said: "Simultaneously, we are His slaves as well and must not question His will."
*************
M*W said: "Yeah, that pretty much sounds correct.
*************
SS said: "@ M.W. Your comparison of God to an artist is uneducated, to say the least. Do you consider God to be an artist? Did He tell you that He is an artist or did you arrive at this through your own "intelligence".
*************
M*W said: "It was an ANALOGY, you stupid fuck. I do consider God to be a creative force of positive energy, i.e. artist. I see humanity as a beautiful creation to love and enjoy. I see our entire universe as God's creation to love and enjoy."
*************
SS said: "I do agree that God is proud of His creation and He REQUIRES full adoration from His creation, NOT FOR His creation.
*************
M*W said: "God would much rather see his creation caring for itself with love and adoration."
*************
SS said: "The reason I scoff at your comparison to an artist is shown when you say "The artist is not the adored one, the painting is.
*************
M*W said: "Have you ever been to a fine arts gallery and looked at the beautiful masterpieces created for our pleasure and enjoyment? How often, as we admire the artwork, do we say, "yeah that Rubens guy was fabulous" or "Monet really inspires life into his characters" or "Degas had a thing for ballerinas." I, for one, want to learn more about the artist and his/her motivation for their particular artwork, but it's the artwork that inspires truly inspires us to want to know MORE ABOUT THE ARTIST. Humanity is God's artwork. When we look at the creation of humanity, we should see the fine details of God's paintbrush and clay and colors and designs. When we do that, we have a greater desire to learn more about God, the Artist of Humanity.
*************
SS said: "You can NOT possibly make that comparison to Supreme Deity."
*************
M*W said: "That depends on who/what your supreme diety means to YOU."
*************
SS said: "You may NOT use finite allusion to show your opinion of God."
*************
M*W said: "And why not? God created me. God instilled in me my perception of the Creator. Who are you to say my opinion is a "finite allusion?" You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. Perception aside, there is only One God."
*************
SS said: "Unlike an artist, God created once and saw that "it was good." He did not try to improve His perfection after He "surveyed" His work."
*************
M*W said: "Then what was evolution for? The human race has been "improving" since we walked out of the water onto the land for the first time. Humanity is still living in the last day of creation. We're not finished yet, just like we weren't finished when we first walked out of water onto the land, but we have made a lot of progress since that time."
*************
SS said: "I would continue on just why alone your comparison is asinine but I'm in school right now ."
*************
M*W said: "Well I certainly hope that with time you will mature enough so as not to see the universe through a microscope."
*************
SS said: "Simply acknowledge how conceited and egocentric you are for saying the creation DESERVES worship."
*************
M*W said: "I will not acknowledge any such thing. This is what I believe, and I stand by it. Who are you to tell me what I believe is wrong? I'll say it again: Humanity deserves to be worshipped as does all of creation. You cannot tell me that when you look at a tree all you see is bark and leaves? Try looking at it as part of God's creation. Respect it. Hug it if you can bring yourself to do it. Tell it you love it. What's wrong with that? Love creates more love. It's simple.
*************
SS said: "After the vile things you (and I) have done in life, none of us deserves to be worshipped."
*************
M*W said: "I have never made a habit of doing vile things. I don't expect others to worship me, the point is that we need to worship our bodies and ourselves, and THEN we will have more adoration for each other and our environment."
*************
SS said: "Basing your thesis on an improper comparison is rather ridiculous, hm?"
*************
M*W said: "What do you mean by "improper comparison?" In your opinion what I believe is "improper," but what you believe is "proper?" You seem to be the one who is conceited and egocentric!"

 

[okinrus]

In priority order - (1) Survival, (2) Personal Freedom.

At times I've been aware that surival, or the fear of not surviving, can be a means of enslavement. Typically when I'm most conscience of my survival, I'm most enslaved. Personal freedom begs the question of what you will do with that freedom; to much emphasis on the will rather than what will be accomplish by the will.

I was less interested in how people consider worship but more about trying to understand why a god requires worship – it seems like a meaningless and primitive request. Respect, understanding and cooperation would make sense – but ‘worship’?

Does mankind have to worship something or someone? I think so, even if the worship is not the worship as a God. In that case since God is the only source of what is good, worshiping that is not God would be evil.

But that is not true. To reap the rewards promised by God you must obey his rules – you are certainly not free to do otherwise and still attain immortality. You are a slave to his bidding or you will be punished in a very permanent manner.

I don't believe we ever become immortal, considering those in heaven have died, and similarly, those in hell still exist. Heaven as defined by Revelation is a place will God is worshiped, songs are song and prayers said. One could view worshiping God as simply growing closer to heaven and God, not a requirement by God. In fact, I doubt someone who does not worship God would know whether God desires us to worship Him. God cannot express his desire for understanding and cooperation without communicating with mankind at a personal level achieved by worship.

Further, you cannot say that being within God is slavery without being within God. If the punishment is the state of not being within God, there's no slavery.

 

[Katazia]

Okinrus,

At times I've been aware that survival, or the fear of not surviving, can be a means of enslavement.

The alternative to not surviving is non existence and that is not acceptable. If to survive means to be enslaved by life then I would assert that that is a very desirable form of enslavement.

But do you realize that it is the fear of non-survival that drives nearly all religions – it is the expectation of immortality and eternal life that is promised by religions – why else do you think religions are so popular – they promise to cheat the ultimate disaster – death.

But they are empty and vacuous promises.

Typically when I'm most conscience of my survival, I'm most enslaved.

And somehow this is bad?

Personal freedom begs the question of what you will do with that freedom; to much emphasis on the will rather than what will be accomplish by the will.

Why care what one does with freedom? And I have no drive to accomplish anything in particular since I have observed that everything appears to be transient.

Does mankind have to worship something or someone? I think so,

Why?

even if the worship is not the worship as a God. In that case since God is the only source of what is good, worshiping that is not God would be evil.

You sound somewhat confused. God is only an imaginative concept it is not something that is real and hence cannot be a source of good or evil. Only people define and generate good and evil.

I don't believe we ever become immortal, considering those in heaven have died, and similarly, those in hell still exist.

Hell is not a place where anyone exists – hell is the grave – the final death for the spirit – according to Christian mythology.

Heaven as defined by Revelation is a place will God is worshiped, songs are song and prayers said.

Holy cow I hope not – I can’t imagine many things more depressing or boring.

Further, you cannot say that being within God is slavery without being within God.

It’s either because it is very late or you are not making any sense.

If the punishment is the state of not being within God, there's no slavery.

Similarly I couldn’t derive any meaning from this statement either.

Kat

 

[okinrus]

My point here is that any punishment that God could possibly inflict on us would be withholding Himself, our worship of Him. Your claim that we worship God because of fear of God is invalid. We worship God to be with God. The eastern church even goes further and says mankind is able to worship and be in a heaven of sorts.

 

[Katazia]

Okinrus,

My point here is that any punishment that God could possibly inflict on us would be withholding Himself, our worship of Him.

I understand your first point but I don’t see how not worshipping is a punishment in itself. There could perhaps be a resultant punishment for not worshipping but that is different to what you are implying.

Your claim that we worship God because of fear of God is invalid.

That isn’t what I said of course, I observe that people worship a god because they believe that is one of the rules they must follow for escaping death. It is the fear of death (non existence) ultimately that drives all mainstream religions.

We worship God to be with God.

Or in other words to escape death, other religions have Nirvana, or a second (after) life, or some other usually perfect or better place – all are imaginative ideas that tempt the gullible superstitious person into believing they can avoid the reality of permanent non existence at death – this is the common thread in all mainstream religions.

But again my question comes back to why would the mythical God of Christianity want to be worshipped? It seems to be no more than a massive ego trip. The idea seems to reflect the old Greek and Roman gods who were always feuding and emotional and entirely irrational.

Kat

 

[Medicine*Woman]

My point here is that any punishment that God could possibly inflict on us would be withholding Himself, our worship of Him. Your claim that we worship God because of fear of God is invalid. We worship God to be with God. The eastern church even goes further and says mankind is able to worship and be in a heaven of sorts.
*************
M*W: Why would God create us and then punish us? This is illogical to me. God created us in his/their image, therefore, we are God, nothing less. We validate God on Earth. By worshipping ourselves, and taking care of ourselves on Earth, we worship God. Our body is the temple, and the One Spirit of God dwells within us. We are with God always whether we know it or not! If God were to leave us, we would be nothing more than dumb animals. By our mere existence, we glorify God. That is the way it's supposed to be.

 

[Preacher_X]

can you see atoms or DNA? but you still believe it because a limited amount of people (scientists) tell you and they provide proof (pics, text etc.) well to religious people the scientists are the Prophets, the evidence is the miracles/prophecies etc. in the books and the signs of creation.

the answer is simple. there is either a God or not. the answer depends on the individual. science has proven that 15 Billion years ago the universe was created at a certain point and it will come to an end at a certain point from now. before that nothing existed including time and space. it would be impossible to imagine what the universe was like before the Big Bang because "nothing" (and this really is "nothing") is unimaginable. when someone asks you to imagine nothing, in your head, you'll probably be thinking something like a blank white space with "nothing" there. well even this is wrong. first off white is something and the actual "space" that "nothing" covers is something! and before the big bang according to science and religion these things didn't exsist (it is impossible for these to exists). not even the space that nothing covers existed or the time that "nothing" existed for. if it is scientifically proven that something as bizarre as this is possible then why is the idea of God ridiculous to some people. also it is proven that the universe will inevitably come to an end, which is according to (some) religions going to be the doomsday.

CONCLUSION

the common argument for atheism is that if God made the universe, then what made God, well if humans can't even imagine "nothing" then how on earth can we imagine what God can do.