The Hindus-An Alternative History

[kmguru]

Do Hindus believe that everything written in their scriptures actually happened, or do they see them as instructive stories?

Just as Christianity has thousands of denominations each with their version of interpretation, Hindus have many more times....

Most stories are just parables, a teaching tool

But whether Ramayana and Mahabharata really happened, no one has done any archeological digs to find out for sure.

So, each Hindu would have his/her interpretation of those stories...

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Do Hindus believe that everything written in their scriptures actually happened, or do they see them as instructive stories?

Apparently some of the stories are based on historical events and real people, but all the Indians I've met in the USA--a couple of dozen, I suppose--recognize the rest as metaphors.

 

[S.A.M.]

all the Indians I've met in the USA.

I wonder how much they are influenced by where they live. Most desis in the US are whiter than white, as we call them.

example:

NO GOD DAMN YOU, NO! Nisha is a "white" person on the inside. She likes Twinkies and Jell-O just as much as Mary Jo Beth does! Sure, Nisha can handle spicy curry and secretly listens to Bollywood music, but so what? That doesn't make her a full Indian. She's not. She's a damn American. And nobody can see that but her. Everyone assumes she's an Indian. And what is an Indian? A totally different way of life and culture that she does not live and has not grown up on.

Yes, her nationality is Indian. Yes she grew up learning some Indian values. Yes, she is probably a bit more cultured than Sarah and Jane but all in all, she is an American. But nobody seems to understand that. They tell her that she's in denial when she says she's proud to be an American. When she claims that she is American they tell her, "No you're not, you're an Indian."

No, damnit, no. She's an American. A unique F**** American. This is the F*** melting pot. She's been lucky to grow up with two outlooks on life so she can take the better of the two and be a one of a kind person. People don't allow her to be who she is because they expect her to act like an Indian and say she's an Indian when she's really something else all together.

http://www.desiclub.com/community/culture/culture_article.cfm?id=179

I wouldn't consider them as representative of anything but American values

 

[kmguru]

I wonder how much they are influenced by where they live. Most desis in the US are whiter than white, as we call them.

I wouldn't consider them as representative of anything but American values

That is how blacks think too. My black friend does not have a black accent. Therefore he is accused of being "white" by his black friends.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I wonder how much they are influenced by where they live. Most desis in the US are whiter than white, as we call them.

Everyone's skin lightens after living in a northern latitude for a few years, but the ones from southern India are much darker than Obama.

What I've been told is that an educated Indian Hindu--anywhere--is much more likely to understand his religion as a collection of metaphors than an educated American Christian.

I wouldn't consider them as representative of anything but American values.

I suppose everyone starts to seem foreign to his countrymen after living in another land. But they sure don't seem "American" to us. High incidence of vegetarianism, and even the meat eaters have their one day a week without it in honor of their (admittedly imaginary) family god. Too much emphasis on work and not enough on fun. Strong family cohesion and loyalty. No public displays of affection, no flirting, no sexual banter. Those are not American values.

One thing they all have in common is being repulsed by the class system.

In any country, the people who are willing to leave and make a home somewhere else are going to have qualitatively different attitudes from the ones who decide to stay there. So you're right that it's risky to judge a people by its emigrants.

Nonetheless, as immigrant communities go, the first-generation Indian-Americans are pretty foreign. Their children will be Americanized, but they're not. They're caught in between.

 

[kmguru]

One thing they all have in common is being repulsed by the class system.

YUP

Nonetheless, as immigrant communities go, the first-generation Indian-Americans are pretty foreign. Their children will be Americanized, but they're not. They're caught in between.

Even a first generation married to an American (White, Hispanic etc) would have absorbed the culture to a large extent.

Children...not necessarily caught in between. I had an Indian colleague who was born and raised here...he was well adjusted to the American culture and finally married to a blond.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Apparently some of the stories are based on historical events and real people, but all the Indians I've met in the USA--a couple of dozen, I suppose--recognize the rest as metaphors.

Christians are much more reluctant to see anything as a metaphor.

 

[S.A.M.]

Everyone's skin lightens after living in a northern latitude for a few years, but the ones from southern India are much darker than Obama..

Whiter than white refers to acting white not skin colour. It harks back to our name for the English, the goras

 

[quadraphonics]

I wonder how much they are influenced by where they live. Most desis in the US are whiter than white, as we call them.

Most of the ones I interact with regularly have lived in the US for substantially less time than you did. So either they're representative of (a certain slice of) Indian culture, or you aren't, or your whole thesis about cultural influence is bunk to begin with.

Any salient differences about the interpretation of scripture are probably best explained by noting that Indian Americans are disproportionately drawn from the highly educated, technical classes. These are engineers, doctors and scientists we're talking about here, and those types tend to have little patience for outright mysticism. On the other hand, recognizing scripture as metaphor - rather than literal truth - is not a widely-observed strength of American culture, so one would be hard-pressed to see how immigrants would pick up such a stance from living here.

Meanwhile, I've never heard this term "whiter than white." But I've heard the terms "coconut" and "ABCD" pretty regularly.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Whiter than white refers to acting white not skin colour. It harks back to our name for the English, the goras

Could you explain that a little more deeply.
Has it anything to do with mixed race Indians?

 

[UltiTruth]

Most of the ones I interact with regularly have lived in the US for substantially less time than you did. So either they're representative of (a certain slice of) Indian culture, or you aren't, or your whole thesis about cultural influence is bunk to begin with.

Any salient differences about the interpretation of scripture are probably best explained by noting that Indian Americans are disproportionately drawn from the highly educated, technical classes. These are engineers, doctors and scientists we're talking about here, and those types tend to have little patience for outright mysticism. On the other hand, recognizing scripture as metaphor - rather than literal truth - is not a widely-observed strength of American culture, so one would be hard-pressed to see how immigrants would pick up such a stance from living here.

Actually, the trait to look at the content of scriptures as metaphors is not necessarily to do with education or social standing - though it might be at a different level with specific groups.

As an example, Rama is not revered because of his valor or physical strength - but for the qualities of persistence, truthfulness, devotion to his cause and values - a change agent (God) in an age where this was all not the norm. Hanuman is revered for his absolute devotion to his master and a cause - not for his physical ability to jump long distances or kill the demons. Even today, where devotion needs exemplified in any field by a Hindu, Hanuman is referred to as inspiration.

This view exists not just in the "whiter than whites" but even in the "darker than the dark, uneducated people" who toil in the Indian Sun in the innermost hamlets. You will hear priests in temples even there talking about the inner abstract representations of what the epics and scriptures say.

 

[rcscwc]

Who would do this? Who hates Hindus? Americans love them, although most Americans think Hinduism and Buddhism are the same thing. Ever since the Beatles got their own guru, I haven't heard anyone say anything derogatory about Hinduism.

Pal, it is not so B/W thingy. Not all Americans understand Hinduism, nay, are not prepared to do so. Americans started with viewing Hinduism as satanism, then to a "strange" religion, then a mysterious system. From hate it has changed to absence of hate, but does it mean love too? NO.

who would do it? There is no dearth of "scholars" who would deliberately distort the facts, this book is an exzample. I assure you that all the errors pointed out are REAL. I rather believe that they are insidious.

Who would do it? Know about numerals, place value system and rules of computation? Everyone in the west staeted with believing they were Arabic in origin [basis? NIL. Except that they got it from Arabs]. Then it dawned upon them that the Arabs had credited Hindus!!! What happened?? GRUDGINGLY, they said: OK, Indo-Arabic. Hahaha.

Mostly by English "scholars". Take a recent example. Who conquored the S. Pole? Was it Amundsen or Scot? Amundesn reached S. Pole fully ONE month before Scot did. He spent 3 days there making observations and trying to fix the EXACT location of S. Pole. Yet look at maps, histories. S. Pole: Amundsen-Scot, as if they reached it the same day!!

Is it the Muslims? There has been a lot of Hindu/Muslim violence in India, culminating in the partitioning of Pakistan. They've continued to make war, on and off, as separate countries.

No. i absolve them. I am a Hindu.

Is it the Buddhists? The majority population in Sri Lanka is Buddhist and the Tamil Tigers who claim to have been treated unfairly are Hindus, right?

Buddhists could not do it without repudiating their roots.

Then who? Do I need to draw a map here?

 

[rcscwc]

This is more BS from the Saffron brigade.

Like to disprove any thing?

 

[rcscwc]

No idea, I don't know any advanced Indians.



Why be annoyed? As she said, Hindus:an alternative history. Could be's should be's would be's are a part of Indian culture. Who knows what history is, but a narrative of different sutradhars? Why can't she be one as well?

Now, now. SAM, why should you know about advanced Indian culture?: After all, everything started with Islam and Mo. Ha. But for Mo, nobody would know that mother's milk is invaluable for an infant!!!

SAM, I don't know why you are a Mod at all?

Muslim Barbie, A figure hidden in a TENT.
Anyone wantimng a pic might see IGLOO on google.

 

[S.A.M.]

Now, now. SAM, why should you know about advanced Indian culture?

Don't be silly. What is an "advanced Indian"? Some one who speaks English? Are some Indians "work in progress"? I don't accept that westernised Indians are more "advanced" - who is more well versed in Indian culture? The ABCD or the Indian brought up in an Indian ethos? Who is more "advanced" as an Indian?

 

[rcscwc]

Don't be silly. What is an "advanced Indian"? Some one who speaks English? Are some Indians "work in progress"? I don't accept that westernised Indians are more "advanced" - who is more well versed in Indian culture? The ABCD or the Indian brought up in an Indian ethos? Who is more "advanced" as an Indian?

Evasive now?

 

[rcscwc]

I've found out about Donkeys.

The demon Kali was reincarnated as a King.

Source for terming Kali a demon? Not epistemology out of your ass.
Source for her incarnation as a king? Not your ass please.

So, the donkey is associated with the nearest thing Hindus have to a Christian Devil.

Source? Not your ass please.

 

[rcscwc]

This is what it says in wapedia

Kali was later incarnated as king Duryodhana, eldest of the one hundred Kaurava brothers. His companion Dvapara became his uncle Sakuni. The day Duryodhana was born, he unleashed a donkey-like scream which the donkeys outside the home replied to. Despite the advise from Vidura to discard the evil baby, Duryodhana's father Dhritarashtra kept the child because demons had received a boon from Shiva that the future king would be invincible.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Kali_(demon)

Haha. Then Wapedia is WRONG and someone pulled it out of his ass. Get me a refrence from Mahabharata, not your ass.

 

[rcscwc]

I've googled Dhotis, and they are all the rage. Dhoti Salwars anyway.
I'm surprised you didn't know SAM.

In fact you know nothing. SAM is muslim, and muslims do not wear dhotis. Period.

Dhoti for a woman is called a sari, and many muslim women too wear it. Many xian women too. In fact office going women mostly wear saris, just as teachers do.

A suit with salwar is aka Punjabi suit and is nearly a pan Indian dress for young women and girls.


Hmm. In fact more of your posts I see, the more I am convinced that you are a prejudiced ass, with very shallow knowledge about India.

 

[S.A.M.]

Muslims do not wear dhotis? Yes we do, only we call it a lungi or a sarong! Its the most common garment in Muslims in India! Thats what most of them wear at home!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungi

Its just not pulled up at the back like a Marathi saree