The Haze in Here: A Drug War Overview

[Tiassa]

The Haze In Here ....
News, comment, and comedy from the War On Drugs

Come one, come all; load it up and fire one off. Whether mind-bending smoke, or the dust still settling from the latest disaster, it's a good thing you don't have to look far to find the latest zany tomfoolery in that guignol farce called the Drug War.

High comedy or stone-chilling reality, your contributions will help your neighbors keep abreast of the best and worst of one of the great tragedies of our age. With roots settling everywhere from Main Street in Middle America to the far-flung fields of international terrorists, the world of illegal drugs is glamorous, dangerous, and ultimately unfulfilling, which is why you'll come back for more.

Here, let's start with something simple:

Fringe Issue: Matthew Yglesias compares the numbers. (Via Slog.)​

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Notes:

Yglesias, Matthew. "Marijuana Legalization More Popular than Key Conservative Leaders". Think Progress. February 22, 2009. http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/a...ore_popular_than_key_conservative_leaders.php

Holden, Dominic. "The Last Month on Drugs". Slog. March 6, 2009. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/03/06/the_last_month_on_drugs

 

[John99]

I am surprised people dont want ALL drug legalized. All prescription drugs like prozak, nitro glycerin pills etc. Make them all legal for everyone and children are people to so they have to be able to purchase anything they want. Make dynamite legal for everyone, make everything legal.

 

[EndLightEnd]

Or how about we keep the harmful drugs illegal...and reverse this ridiculous war on marijuana. Hell liquor used to be illegal too.
Also do you really think marijuana is ANY more of a gateway drug then booze?

 

[John99]

Alcohol is more of a gateway drug, i suppose. But in moderation alc. is better for you and has medicinal qualities that mj does not. Thins blood being one.

 

[EndLightEnd]

Alcohol is more of a gateway drug, i suppose. But in moderation alc. is better for you and has medicinal qualities that mj does not.

And marijuana has many medicinal qualities that alcohol does not.

Mj has a tendency to turn people into major a holes too. This manifests itself into two distinct ways, which i would rather not get into right now.

Alcohol has a tendency to turn people into dangerous assholes.

Lets face it assholes are assholes, it doesnt matter what drug they use.

 

[John99]

i deleted the asshole part because that gets very complicated. But i can see your point.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I am surprised people dont want ALL drug legalized. All prescription drugs like prozak, nitro glycerin pills etc. Make them all legal for everyone and children are people to so they have to be able to purchase anything they want. Make dynamite legal for everyone, make everything legal.

Strawmen from the depths of absurdity.

 

[John99]

Why is that a straw man?

 

[leopold]

i think marijuana should be decriminalized but not outright legalized.
decriminalized in this instance would be confiscation of the amount and issuance of a ticket. in my locality i believe this amount is 30 grams.
30 grams seems plenty for personal use, in your house.
what about when you are just out and about?
do you usually carry 30 grams around with you or maybe 5 or so joints?

 

[swarm]

Actually the impact of alcohol is far more negative than previously suspected. In particular both binge and chronic abuse are very damaging to the liver and the margin of error is very slim on the health benefits. Basically drink grape juice or take a supplement.

In a recent pilot study of people in England, they were expecting about a 6% rate of abnormal liver results. Instead they found 40% - 60% rate of abnormalities. They also found a sharp increase in deaths from cirrhosis in people under 20 and they now know there is a common genetic mutation which makes some people much more susceptible to liver damage from alcohol.

In short if you are an alcohol abuser like most people, you need to stop. If you are addicted and can't stop then you need to take regular 3 month breaks to let your liver heal and don't binge.

Don't mix Tylenol / acetaminophen and alcohol - ever.

Make use of liver protectants like milk thistle, NAC and ALA.

 

[RubiksMaster]

Or how about we keep the harmful drugs illegal...and reverse this ridiculous war on marijuana.

But in moderation alc. is better for you and has medicinal qualities that mj does not.

And marijuana has many medicinal qualities that alcohol does not.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that if a real doctor comes along and proves scientifically that marijuana is harmful, then your whole argument is gone. You can keep going back and forth, but in the end what you are saying is that the only reason for people being free is that it makes them physically healthy. Marijuana should be legal regardless of how healthy it is.

Freedom isn't contingent on health benefits. People should be free to choose their own goals in life, so long as they don't take away the liberties of another individual. If someone wants to spend their life destroying their body to experience altered mental states, then nobody should be able to stop them. I don't know if marijuana is harmful or not. What I do know is that the government doesn't own my body and has no moral right to imprison me or steal from me if I choose to harm myself with drugs.

The war on drugs is a load of crock. It's not really a war against drugs at all. It's a war against the individuals who use drugs. I don't understand how anyone can think it's justifiable for a government to wage war on its citizens.

I am surprised people dont want ALL drug legalized. All prescription drugs like prozak, nitro glycerin pills etc. Make them all legal for everyone and children are people to so they have to be able to purchase anything they want.

Alcohol is legal. Why don't you see toddlers running around with bottles, or babies in the emergency room dying of alcohol poisoning? But I see I've attacked your straw man (or climbed your slippery slope, or whatever fallacy you used).

 

[Oniw17]

Alcohol is legal. Why don't you see toddlers running around with bottles,

I seen toddlers running around with bottles just yesterday. It was NA beer though.

 

[Asguard]

swarm i know your australian (due to the fact that you peged that the RTA was the group responcable for licencing in NSW), did you not hear the recent changes to the achole health warning?

2 standed drinks per day max and no more than 4 standed drinks in one sitting.

the advice has ALWAYS been that 1-2 standed drinks per day has health benifits both to the cardiovascular system and the brain as well, the trade off is that ANY achole increases risks of mouth and stomic cancer however that increase is quite low.

On your suggestion to take vitimans though there is little to NO scientific evidence that taking vitimans when the person is eating a balanced diet does any more than a placibo. In fact your just flushing the pill back down the toilet because the body is very strict about how much vitimans and minerals it will alow in the body and it cant store most of them

 

[Tiassa]

The stopping of the madness

Source: The Economist
Link: http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13237193
Title: "How to stop the drug wars"
Date: March 5, 2009

Describing prohibition as a failure, and suggesting that legalization is the "least bad" option, The Economist reiterates its call for the end of the drug war.

A HUNDRED years ago a group of foreign diplomats gathered in Shanghai for the first-ever international effort to ban trade in a narcotic drug. On February 26th 1909 they agreed to set up the International Opium Commission—just a few decades after Britain had fought a war with China to assert its right to peddle the stuff. Many other bans of mood-altering drugs have followed. In 1998 the UN General Assembly committed member countries to achieving a “drug-free world” and to “eliminating or significantly reducing” the production of opium, cocaine and cannabis by 2008.

That is the kind of promise politicians love to make. It assuages the sense of moral panic that has been the handmaiden of prohibition for a century. It is intended to reassure the parents of teenagers across the world. Yet it is a hugely irresponsible promise, because it cannot be fulfilled.

Next week ministers from around the world gather in Vienna to set international drug policy for the next decade. Like first-world-war generals, many will claim that all that is needed is more of the same. In fact the war on drugs has been a disaster, creating failed states in the developing world even as addiction has flourished in the rich world. By any sensible measure, this 100-year struggle has been illiberal, murderous and pointless.​

They've only been making the point for twenty years, you know. And they're a fringe magazine, to boot. I mean, it's not like The Economist is a widely read, broadly respected source of news and commentary that moves over a million copies a week worldwide.

If only marijuana legalization wasn't such a fringe issue. I mean, if it had remotely mainstream potential as an issue, you'd think it could at least compete with unpopular politicians, or find advocates in respectable news media.

Quite clearly, though, legalization doesn't have that going for it. So advocates can only make those roughshod appeals to emotion like wondering why giving people like, say, the Taliban millions of dollars for the purpose of hurting people while doing nothing to actually reduce the flow of illegal drugs.

Oh, well. Phish is back. Maybe when the drug warriors are done searching for the next terrorist band to empower in the name of freedom, they'll stop to wonder why everyone is driving to Firenze.
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See Also:

"Hooked on just saying no". The Economist. January 21, 1989. http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13251312

 

[Baron Max]

Freedom isn't contingent on health benefits. People should be free to choose their own goals in life, so long as they don't take away the liberties of another individual. If someone wants to spend their life destroying their body to experience altered mental states, then nobody should be able to stop them. I don't know if marijuana is harmful or not. What I do know is that the government doesn't own my body and has no moral right to imprison me or steal from me if I choose to harm myself with drugs.

And just how far do you want to go down that slippery, slippery slope?

A society has the right to government the actions of it's members. If not, then what you have is basic anarchy ...which is certainly not something that you would want. So while YOU might want to control some things, others might want to control other things ...and YOU might not get what you wish, regardless of how you might feel about it.

Being a member of a society entails certain responsibilities to that society. If not, ....aren't we back to anarchy?

Baron Max

 

[leopold]

tiassa,
in your opinion what qualities would a national drug have?

 

[Tiassa]

Our national drug

A national drug ought to be warm, fuzzy, soft, happy, and as accessible to the greatest number of people possible. Marijuana is an excellent candidate; it's as horribly addictive—at most—as coffee, and has the twin upshots of people not being so high strung and helping our public restrooms smell better.

:m:

 

[RubiksMaster]

A society has the right to government the actions of it's members. If not, then what you have is basic anarchy ...which is certainly not something that you would want.

An individual does not have the right to initiate force against another individual. That includes electing someone to initiate force on his behalf. Using guns (police) to forcibly prevent me from making a non-infringing choice fits that definition. So yes, a society does have the right to govern itself, but it does not have the right to do so at the expense of individuals in that society.

Being a member of a society entails certain responsibilities to that society. If not, ....aren't we back to anarchy?

Nope. I have no responsibility to anyone else, except to not take away their liberties. That's what the government is for. People elect a government to establish the minimum number of laws necessary to ensure I don't do this. I absolutely do not have a "responsibility" to conform to the whims of other people. If I make the decision to slightly alter the flow of chemicals in my brain, that's nobody's decision but my own -- unless you believe that the government has a higher claim on my life than I do.

Preventing me from doing a drug is just as immoral as preventing you from eating certain foods. I happen to hate bananas, but that doesn't give me the right to prevent you from eating them.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

And just how far do you want to go down that slippery, slippery slope?

A society has the right to government the actions of it's members. If not, then what you have is basic anarchy ...which is certainly not something that you would want. So while YOU might want to control some things, others might want to control other things ...and YOU might not get what you wish, regardless of how you might feel about it.

Being a member of a society entails certain responsibilities to that society. If not, ....aren't we back to anarchy?

Baron Max

You seem unable to distinguish between actions concerning personal human rights & actions which directly affect others.

 

[swarm]

swarm i know your australian (due to the fact that you peged that the RTA was the group responcable for licencing in NSW), did you not hear the recent changes to the achole health warning?

Actually I just pulled it from the context of his post.

2 standed drinks per day max and no more than 4 standed drinks in one sitting.

And if you are young, male, of average build, don't have a very common genetic mutation, can actually do this (most don't even when they think they are) and don't try to do this constantly, then your liver will heal about as fast as you damage it.

If you are "yes" on any of those you need to cut the amount in 1/2.

If you party on any form of booze, you are doing more than what is safe.

Most modern beer and wine is far more potent that when those recommendations were put out and the amount consumed has been creeping up. The original studies were 3.2% beer and 6-8% wine. Beer is now 5-6.4% and wine is 12-16%.

health benefits both to the cardiovascular system and the brain as well

The benefits aren't that significant and they are only beneficial if you aren't damaging your liver.

If finding liver abnormalities in 40-60% of the people they tested isn't giving you an idea that the current suggestions either aren't right or aren't working, then I'm guessing you still smoke.

On your suggestion to take vitamins though there is little to NO scientific evidence that taking vitamins when the person is eating a balanced diet does any more than a placibo.

I'm not just suggesting taking vitamins, though alcohol abuse does burn though b vitamins and a light b suppliant and a big glass of water can help reduce hangovers.

NAC - N-Acetyl Cysteine is and amino acid used by the liver to detoxify poisons. It is one of the things they give you if you OD on Tylenol or eat poisonous mushrooms to keep you from dying.

ALA - Alpha Lipoic Acid is a fat and water soluble antioxidant which is also used in protecting the liver and other tissue. In particular it is used by the mitochondria to protect against oxidation damage during fat mitobolism.

Milk thistle has been shown to aid in liver tissue regeneration. It is widely used by people with hepititus C to aid against the raveges of that disease.