The Gay Fray

I am . . . .

  • Homosexual

    Votes: 25 9.2%

  • Heterosexual

    Votes: 201 73.6%

  • Bisexual

    Votes: 31 11.4%

  • Other (I would have complained if there wasn't an "other" option)

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • Total voters
    273
Illinois!

Illinois!
Countdown to ... finally!

And then there were ... fifteen.

Well, okay, there will be:

Lawmakers approved gay marriage Tuesday in a historic vote that saw supporters overcome cultural, racial and geographic divides and put Illinois in line with a growing number of states that have extended the right to wed to same-sex couples.

After more than a year of intense lobbying by both sides, gay lawmakers made emotional pleas to colleagues to give their families equal rights even as opponents argued that doing so would unravel the foundation of society.

"At the end of the day, what this bill is about is love, it's about family, it's about commitment," said sponsoring Rep. Greg Harris, clutching an American flag he said was sent by a supportive soldier stationed in Afghanistan.

"At the end of the day, this bill is about the vision that the founders of our country had and wrote into our Constitution, where they said America is a journey .... And we'll continue to walk down that road to make America a better place, to make ourselves a 'more perfect union,' to ensure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity," the Chicago Democrat said.

Gov. Pat Quinn said he intends to sign the bill, which would take effect June 1. It's the Democratic governor's latest step in taking Illinois in a more liberal direction. Under Quinn in the past three years, Illinois has banned the death penalty, legalized medical marijuana, provided driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants and approved civil unions.

(Garcia and Long)​

The exact schedule isn't clear, but Gov. Quinn's office says he will sign the bill into law by the end of the week.

Congratulations, Illinois.
____________________

Notes:

Garcia, Monique and Ray Long. "Lawmakers approve gay marriage in Illinois". Clout Street. November 5, 2013. ChicagoTribune.com. November 5, 2013. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/clout/chi-gay-marriage-illinois-20131105,0,7759837.story
 
I know this doesn't work for the US because you guys refuse to sign the convention but the convention on the rights of the child should DEMAND Australia and other signatories of the convention pass marriage equality for the sake of the children of these relationships
 
Commitment

Now there is an idea.

I wonder what kind of president and congress it would take to get us to sign onto all the noble international treaties, many of which we are said to have inspired, and even more of which would strengthen our society and, by proxy—we are the United States of America, after all—the world.

I mean, sure, we have great intentions, but it's just so hard to get us to commit to anything other than the pursuit of money.

Or the occasional bout of blind, dogmatic political insanity. For some reason, we seem to love those.
 
To sign that one you have to get people to recognise that children are people in there own right, with rights and needs of there own and that its the family and governments roll to protect those. This is on contrast to the prevailing view that children are property to be owned a s that government intervention to protect children is a breach of a PARENTS "rights". Personally I think it's bullshit but look at some of the posts here and you see that it's not going to be an easy change to make. Some of Orelander's comments spring to mind for example
 
Hawai'i!

Hawai'i!
The circle comes 'round

Do you remember Hawai'i's pivotal role in the Gay Fray? Today the circle came 'round:

Gov. Neil Abercrombie today signed the marriage equality bill into law this morning, describing the law as part of Hawaii's "legacy of aloha."

At a signing ceremony at the Hawai'i Convention Center's Liliu Theater, the governor told dozens of invited guests and state lawmakers that the marriage equality bill was the "epitome of the First Amendment in action" ....

.... Gay couples can get married in Hawaii as soon as Dec. 2. Clergy can refuse to perform gay weddings. Churches and other religious organizations can deny goods, services and facilities for gay weddings and receptions if it violates religious beliefs.

Abercrombie said the bill may not be a "perfect vehicle" but it was the product of the deliberative process. He said the debate recognized both equality and religious freedom ....

.... Abercrombie signed the bill into law today with a koa pen that he plans to give to retired state Supreme Court Justice Steven Levinson, who wrote the 1993 court ruling that held that denying marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples was a violation of equal protection under the state Constitution.

Levinson's opinion on behalf of a splintered Hawaii Supreme Court cleared the way for the possibility that Hawaii could become the first state in the country to legalize same-sex marriages, a radical idea at the time. It produced a backlash nationally, with Congress in 1996 passing the Defense of Marriage Act that prohibited federal benefits from going to same-sex married couples.

In Hawaii, the state Legislature adopted a measure in 1994 reserving marriage between a man and a woman; voters then passed an amendment in 1998 that states, "The Legislature shall have the power to reserve marriage to opposite-sex couples."

Now, the struggle over marriage equality shifts to Hawaii's courts. State Rep. Bob McDermott, a Republican who opposes gay marriage, will seek a temporary restraining order to block the state from issuing marriage licenses to gay couples, citing the 1998 constitutional amendment.

McDermott (R, Ewa Beach-Iroquois Point) and other same-sex marriage opponents contend that the constitutional amendment outweighs any bill passed by the Legislature. Another public vote, they argue, would be necessary to redefine marriage.

(Star-Advertiser)​

Congratulations to the Aloha State.
____________________

Notes:

Star-Advertiser Staff. "Abercrombie Signs Same-Sex Marriage Bill Into Law". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. November 13, 2013. Star-Advertiser.com. November 13, 2013. http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/...esex_marriage_bill_into_law.html?id=231784121
 
It's a reliable proposition

Balerion said:

How do you figure that?
Click to expand...

Generally speaking, monogamy transmits disease less often than promiscuous diversity.

Additionally, marriage equality is part of the normalization of homosexuality within the society; it's hard to describe the difference in how one feels, but even the difference of being out of the closet lessens the inertial weight driving one into desperate congress. The general effect is that one might have difficulty enumerating all the differences, but The Gay isn't a strictly underground phenomenon anymore, and one of the greatest harm reduction approaches is normalization.
 
Tiassa said:
Generally speaking, monogamy transmits disease less often than promiscuous diversity.

Additionally, marriage equality is part of the normalization of homosexuality within the society; it's hard to describe the difference in how one feels, but even the difference of being out of the closet lessens the inertial weight driving one into desperate congress. The general effect is that one might have difficulty enumerating all the differences, but The Gay isn't a strictly underground phenomenon anymore, and one of the greatest harm reduction approaches is normalization.
Click to expand...

Hm. I thought he was suggesting that people are only monogamous if they're married, which is silly. Married people aren't even monogamous!
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
And many unmarried couples are.
Click to expand...

Sactly! That's all I was taking issue with. But Tiassa makes a good point about the normalization of homosexuality helping curb some of the promiscuity. (Not that promiscuity needs to be curbed, that is. Just speaking in the sense of transmitting STDs)
 
Will torture children for Christ...

Just when you think things can't get much worse.. it does.

"Kidnapped for Christ" is a compelling new documentary that follows the experiences of several American teenagers after they were kidnapped from their homes and shipped to Evangelical Reform schools located in the Dominican Republic. Many of these teenagers' parents discover their children are either gay or experience same-sex attraction, and are sent to “therapeutic Christian boarding school” in order to "transform into healthy Christian adults" in an environment outside of U.S. law.


The "treatment" was called "Culture Shock Therapy" by the administrators. So their actual methods involved jarring kids enough that they were more malleable emotionally and mentally. That was Step One, and it involved strenuous and intense physical labor and exercise, constant repetition of religious and program-written texts, and severe punishments for students who "acted out." Those punishments could be hours of manual labor, exercising, or actual physical beatings, which they called "swats."

That was the program. All of that stuff is in their handbook. Then there was so much physical and emotional abuse that went on besides that, combined with a generally oppressive atmosphere of conformity and helplessness. These kids were afraid to speak out, afraid to tell their parents about was was going on, and as a result a lot of them just felt helpless and alone, like they were stuck in this horrible place with no one to talk to and no one to help them.


​


I have to ask myself, what the hell is wrong with people?
 
Winning a Cultural Revolution: Been There, Done That

Utah!
It is accomplished: Gay Fray now a matter of paperwork

"People are crying. This is happening" —Seth Anderson​

One more state: Utah.

The important detail:

Because Amendment 3 fails even rational basis review, the court finds that Utah’s prohibition on same-sex marriage violates the Plaintiffs' right to equal protection under the law.

(Shelby)​

I do believe we're down to a matter of paperwork, now. Any appeal to the Supreme Court will fail.

Yes, there is work to do. But this war, the American Gay Fray, is over.

Congratulations, America. Now it's just a matter of how much we embarrass ourselves with morning-after denials, excuses, and hangovers.
____________________

Notes:

Anderson, Seth. "People are crying". Twitter. December 20, 2013. Twitter.com. December 20, 2013. https://twitter.com/jsethanderson/statuses/414149648190689280

Shelby, Richard J. "Memorandum Decision and Order". Kitchen et al. v. Herbert et al.. United States District Court for the District of Utah Central Division. December 20, 2013. Scribd.com. December 20, 2013. http://www.scribd.com/doc/192787255/Utah-Marriage-Decision
 
Not even going to bother with the gas chamber first..

While the world reacted to the Duck Dynasty yahoo's comments about homosexuality, Russia's yahoo actually made Duck Dynasty's yahoo seem tame and mild by comparison:


Ivan Okhlobystin is a priest and actor who stars in Russia's version of "Scrubs" and voiced a character in 2012's "Snow Queen." On Sunday, he made homophobic statements during a "spiritual talk" in Siberia's Novosibirsk, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

"I would have them all stuffed alive inside an oven. This is Sodom and Gomorrah, as a believer, I can not remain indifferent to this, it is a living danger to my children!" he said, according to a Huffington Post translation of a local news report from NGS.Novosti.

"I don't want my children thinking that being a faggot is normal," he continued. "This is gay fascism! If a man can not choose an appropriate person of the opposite sex for reproduction -- that is a clear sign of mental abnormality, then he needs to be deprived of that right to choose."

After news of his vitriolic anti-gay comments made headlines around the world, Okhlobystin took to Twitter to defend himself. The 47-year-old, who previously discussed becoming president, showed no remorse.

"The meaning was rendered correctly," he said, per The Guardian. "Everyone has the right to express their opinions."​

It is hard to imagine this kind of rhetoric being uttered by anyone, given human history and the kind of hatred that led to millions being killed in gas chambers and burned in ovens. But alas, here we are. As Uganda takes more extreme steps about homosexuals, by threatening life imprisonment, Russia is also traveling down that nasty road by making it legal to detain and fine homosexuals or anyone who may support them.

Sadder still, the crowd cheered him on as he claimed to want to stuff all gay people into an oven alive. He does not want his children to think being gay is normal, but apparently it's okay for them to believe that mass murder is normal?
 
One Man's Death Wish

You Know It's Over When ...
... the losers get suicidal

The cruel part of a person says, "Have fun stormin' the castle!"

The less cruel part wonders if maybe the guy is a closet case who is just mortally terrified of coming out, being found out, or whatever.

A compassionate part would probably ask for some sort of psychiatric and medical intervention, but this is America, and that's not how it goes.

Trestin Meacham, a 35-year-old Utah man, is allegedly refusing to eat anything until the state nullifies its recent decision to allow same-sex couples to get married.

At the time the above video was released, Meacham had reportedly gone 12 days without food—surviving only on water and an occasional vitamin—and has lost 25 pounds.

“I cannot stand by and do nothing while this evil takes root in my home," the 35-year-old reportedly wrote on his blog. "Some things in life are worth sacrificing one's health and even life if necessary. I am but a man, and do not have the money and power to make any noticeable influence in our corrupt system. Nevertheless, I can do something that people in power cannot ignore."

Meacham claims he will fast until Utah decides to nullify the court's decision—nullification being a theory that the states have authority in all matters, not the federal government. It is a theory that has reportedly been used previously in an attempt to prevent integration in the public school system in the 1950s.

(Nichols)​

The thing about nullification is that in this case the idea is going up against the Supreme Law of the Land. I wonder what people in Utah would say if we in Washington decided to nullify the First Amendment in order to persecute the CJC/LDS (Mormons). Or what anyone around the country would say if Illinois decided to nullify the Second Amendment in order to get a handle on the murder rate in Chicago.

Obviously, there are limits to nullification, and they are well short of a state deciding to opt out of the Constitution.

So the question is: Will Meacham's friends and family let him die?

Indeed, I'm one who actually accepts the general idea of hunger striking. And I am not sympathetic to force-feeding. Indeed, if Mr. Meacham was to sign a valid living will saying that if he slipped into a coma as a result of his hunger strike he should not be fed intravenously, I would expect that to be honored.

To the other, really? Does Mr. Meacham so hate homosexuals that he is willing to die in order to protest their humanity and equal treatment under the law?

Fine, then, that's one less bigot if that's what it comes down to. But, really, is this the beginning of desperate martyrdom in American politics?

Of course, Meacham's faith does, technically, suggest that while suicide is wrong, God will consider the reasons why, so perhaps Mr. Meacham is blazing an activist trail.

Still though, why is marriage equality something worth killing oneself to prevent?
____________________

Notes:

Nichols, James. "Trestin Meacham, Utah Man, On Hunger Strike To Halt Gay Marriage". The Huffington Post. January 3, 2014. HuffingotnPost.com. January 4, 2014. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/03/utah-hunger-strike-gay-marriage_n_4537434.html

Ballard, M. Russell. "Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not". Ensign. October, 1987. LDS.org. January 4, 2014. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/10/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not
 
Tiassa said:
You Know It's Over When ...
... the losers get suicidal

The cruel part of a person says, "Have fun stormin' the castle!"

The less cruel part wonders if maybe the guy is a closet case who is just mortally terrified of coming out, being found out, or whatever.

A compassionate part would probably ask for some sort of psychiatric and medical intervention, but this is America, and that's not how it goes.

Trestin Meacham, a 35-year-old Utah man, is allegedly refusing to eat anything until the state nullifies its recent decision to allow same-sex couples to get married.

At the time the above video was released, Meacham had reportedly gone 12 days without food—surviving only on water and an occasional vitamin—and has lost 25 pounds.

“I cannot stand by and do nothing while this evil takes root in my home," the 35-year-old reportedly wrote on his blog. "Some things in life are worth sacrificing one's health and even life if necessary. I am but a man, and do not have the money and power to make any noticeable influence in our corrupt system. Nevertheless, I can do something that people in power cannot ignore."

Meacham claims he will fast until Utah decides to nullify the court's decision—nullification being a theory that the states have authority in all matters, not the federal government. It is a theory that has reportedly been used previously in an attempt to prevent integration in the public school system in the 1950s.

(Nichols)​

The thing about nullification is that in this case the idea is going up against the Supreme Law of the Land. I wonder what people in Utah would say if we in Washington decided to nullify the First Amendment in order to persecute the CJC/LDS (Mormons). Or what anyone around the country would say if Illinois decided to nullify the Second Amendment in order to get a handle on the murder rate in Chicago.

Obviously, there are limits to nullification, and they are well short of a state deciding to opt out of the Constitution.

So the question is: Will Meacham's friends and family let him die?

Indeed, I'm one who actually accepts the general idea of hunger striking. And I am not sympathetic to force-feeding. Indeed, if Mr. Meacham was to sign a valid living will saying that if he slipped into a coma as a result of his hunger strike he should not be fed intravenously, I would expect that to be honored.

To the other, really? Does Mr. Meacham so hate homosexuals that he is willing to die in order to protest their humanity and equal treatment under the law?

Fine, then, that's one less bigot if that's what it comes down to. But, really, is this the beginning of desperate martyrdom in American politics?

Of course, Meacham's faith does, technically, suggest that while suicide is wrong, God will consider the reasons why, so perhaps Mr. Meacham is blazing an activist trail.

Still though, why is marriage equality something worth killing oneself to prevent?
____________________

Notes:

Nichols, James. "Trestin Meacham, Utah Man, On Hunger Strike To Halt Gay Marriage". The Huffington Post. January 3, 2014. HuffingotnPost.com. January 4, 2014. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/03/utah-hunger-strike-gay-marriage_n_4537434.html

Ballard, M. Russell. "Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not". Ensign. October, 1987. LDS.org. January 4, 2014. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/10/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not
Click to expand...

I don't care what this man does. It certainly will have no effect on the court's decision, so it's irrelevant from that point of view. I suppose he's willing to kill himself because gay people are entitled to the same rights as all other people...which is an insane stance to take. I wonder if he's of low intelligence or mentally ill. Maybe his family, or the authorities, will get a court order to have him taken into care, and medicated or force-fed, or something. I hope he doesn't die though. I don't like to see anyone die needlessly.
 
Tiassa said:
You Know It's Over When ...
... the losers get suicidal

The cruel part of a person says, "Have fun stormin' the castle!"

The less cruel part wonders if maybe the guy is a closet case who is just mortally terrified of coming out, being found out, or whatever.

A compassionate part would probably ask for some sort of psychiatric and medical intervention, but this is America, and that's not how it goes.

Trestin Meacham, a 35-year-old Utah man, is allegedly refusing to eat anything until the state nullifies its recent decision to allow same-sex couples to get married.

At the time the above video was released, Meacham had reportedly gone 12 days without food—surviving only on water and an occasional vitamin—and has lost 25 pounds.

“I cannot stand by and do nothing while this evil takes root in my home," the 35-year-old reportedly wrote on his blog. "Some things in life are worth sacrificing one's health and even life if necessary. I am but a man, and do not have the money and power to make any noticeable influence in our corrupt system. Nevertheless, I can do something that people in power cannot ignore."

Meacham claims he will fast until Utah decides to nullify the court's decision—nullification being a theory that the states have authority in all matters, not the federal government. It is a theory that has reportedly been used previously in an attempt to prevent integration in the public school system in the 1950s.

(Nichols)​

The thing about nullification is that in this case the idea is going up against the Supreme Law of the Land. I wonder what people in Utah would say if we in Washington decided to nullify the First Amendment in order to persecute the CJC/LDS (Mormons). Or what anyone around the country would say if Illinois decided to nullify the Second Amendment in order to get a handle on the murder rate in Chicago.

Obviously, there are limits to nullification, and they are well short of a state deciding to opt out of the Constitution.

So the question is: Will Meacham's friends and family let him die?

Indeed, I'm one who actually accepts the general idea of hunger striking. And I am not sympathetic to force-feeding. Indeed, if Mr. Meacham was to sign a valid living will saying that if he slipped into a coma as a result of his hunger strike he should not be fed intravenously, I would expect that to be honored.

To the other, really? Does Mr. Meacham so hate homosexuals that he is willing to die in order to protest their humanity and equal treatment under the law?

Fine, then, that's one less bigot if that's what it comes down to. But, really, is this the beginning of desperate martyrdom in American politics?

Of course, Meacham's faith does, technically, suggest that while suicide is wrong, God will consider the reasons why, so perhaps Mr. Meacham is blazing an activist trail.

Still though, why is marriage equality something worth killing oneself to prevent?
____________________

Notes:

Nichols, James. "Trestin Meacham, Utah Man, On Hunger Strike To Halt Gay Marriage". The Huffington Post. January 3, 2014. HuffingotnPost.com. January 4, 2014. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/03/utah-hunger-strike-gay-marriage_n_4537434.html

Ballard, M. Russell. "Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not". Ensign. October, 1987. LDS.org. January 4, 2014. http://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/10/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you there, he has to be of "sound mind" in order to make advanced directives and if someone is willing to stave them self to get a marriage law overturned I honestly can't see how any health care professional could consider them to be of sound mind. There MAYBE situations where that is appropriate and it would be considered a rational decision but I can't see this being one of them
 
Get 'em while they are young

After failing in their bid to ban oral and anal sex between adults, Virginian lawmakers are trying again, this time trying to ban oral and anal sex between teenagers. The new Bill also makes certain sex acts between adults illegal outside of the bedroom.

Recall, Virginia's bizarre "crimes against nature" law made it a felony for any person to carnally know "any male or female person by the anus or by or with the mouth;" anyone who "voluntarily submits" to that sort of activity also would be a felon.

The United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit found in March that this law was a violation of the 14th Amendment, which guarantees the rights of due process and equal protection.

According to an "impact statement" accompanying this new bill, limiting the proscriptions to non-adults is an attempt to get around the due process problems.

Here's the official summary of the SB 14, introduced by Republican Sen. Thomas Garrett, who ran for office as a "Cuccinelli conservative" and vowed to go farther to the right than any other candidate:


Crimes against nature. Clarifies that engaging in consensual sodomy is not a crime if all persons participating are adults, are not in a public place, and are not committing, attempting to commit, conspiring to commit, aiding, or abetting any act in furtherance of prostitution. The bill states that an emergency exists and it is in force from its passage.​
​


The revised bill makes consensual anal and oral sex between non-adults illegal.

Since they cannot distinguish between homosexuals and heterosexuals in targeting homosexual teenagers, it appears to be much easier for them to simply ban it outright. The alternative is to make teenage sexuality illegal altogether. So in trying to bypass the courts, they have come up with this one.

As University of Florida law professor Darren Hutchinson explains:

"Virginia cannot make distinctions among LGBT teens and heterosexual teens with respect to the criminal law. Unless all forms of teen sexuality are illegal in Virginia, this bill would violate Equal Protection," he said. "The state seems to have invented an 'emergency' to justify immediate application of the law -- but this looks exceedingly deceptive in light of the antigay history of Virginia law and the recent unlawful enforcement of the state sodomy law, which remains on the books 10 years after the Supreme Court protection of a right to engage in sodomy."​

The article points out the absolute hypocrisy and irony of this latest stupidity.

Think Progress, which reported about the bill on Wednesday, notes that Virginia law allows heterosexual 16-year-olds to marry; they can get hitched even younger if there's a pregnancy.

UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh points out some other sticky inconsistencies:

Well, Virginia law provides that genital sex with a 15-to-17-year-old is a misdemeanor, and sex among 15-to-17-year-olds is perfectly legal. So if two 17-year-olds are choosing whether to have oral sex or genital sex, the law would push them towards the form of sex that is more likely to transmit disease, and more likely to cause unwanted pregnancy. Genius.​
​

Senator Thomas Garrett has since tried to explain that it is to stop adults abusing children, supposedly. The alternative would have been much simpler, as the article states, just write a law that bans child abuse.


Genius indeed.
 
¡Pizzabulous!

Asguard said:

I have to disagree with you there, he has to be of "sound mind" in order to make advanced directives and if someone is willing to stave them self to get a marriage law overturned I honestly can't see how any health care professional could consider them to be of sound mind.
Click to expand...

You have a point; it would depend, then, when the living will was written and signed. To the other, it's moot, now, as he gave up and started asking for free pizza.

I know, I know. Martyrdom versus pizza. Hey, he's human.

Meanwhile, the Department of Justice is siding with the newly-married gay couples in Utah:

Last month, a federal court struck down Utah's ban on marriage equality, immediately opening the door to equal-marriage rights statewide. Roughly 1,300 couples took advantage of the opportunity and tied the legally recognized knot.

The U.S. Supreme Court, however, issued a stay this week, reinstating Utah's ban while the appeals process unfolds. And as Adam Serwer explained, state officials “took the additional step of telling the couples who were married in the meantime that, in the eyes of the state of Utah, while the litigation is ongoing, those marriages don't count."

AG Holder offered a response today, letting those same couples know that as far as the federal government is concerned, their marriages do count ....

(Benen)​
____________________

Notes:

Maddow, Rachel. "Debunktion Junction: Pizza-Excepting Edition". The Rachel Maddow Show. MSNBC, New York. January 6, 2014. Television. MSNBC.com. January 10, 2014. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...junction-excepting-pizza-edition-108601923710

Benen, Steve. "Holder: Feds recognize Utah's same-sex marriages". The Maddow Blog. January 10, 2014. MSNBC.com. January 10, 2014. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/holder-us-recognizes-utah-same-sex-marriages
 
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