The First Commandment

tiassa,

LOL. The idea of that there is really only 5 commandments, read from the left stone across to the right, was just too much of a stretch (pun intended).

The main quote though is one of those wonderfully lengthy creations that I find so amusing. When I see the apparent need to write volumes to explain away a short phrase then that tells me that the bible in such a respect has not conveyed any real meaning, or more likely it hasn't said what the Christians want it to mean. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me", hence my preference to take it literally since anything else requires a significant departure from what the book says.

It still looks like multiple gods are possible and assumed to be real.

And "henotheism": That might well fit this topic quite nicely. Good find.
 
Because Judaism was originally (at the time the old testament was written) a polytheistic religion.

*ducks from flying bibles aimed at my head*

It is all clear in Genesis.

"in OUR image"
elohim (the plural of God).

There are more refences, but I had a long week and I am too tired to look tham up right now.
There are several refences in the old testament that the Jews believed that there was more than one God, but "God the creator" is the ONE of them that should be worshipped above all of the other Gods.

And don't sell me on the Trinitarian idea that God was talking to Jesus in heaven when he said "in OUR image".
It's not going to work.
 
In response to the first post...

Sometimes we make ourselves gods and start worshiping each other...
 
the 10 plagues of egypt were all aimed at a paticular egyption god so if u think about it god was atacking other gods

why?
 
Like I said ....

the 10 plagues of egypt were all aimed at a paticular egyption god so if u think about it god was atacking other gods
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Like I said ... The rest is just building the power base. Knocking off the competition, so to speak.

That is, of course, from the theistic presumption.

In the atheistic term, it's just a battle of psychoses. Another basis for the presumption of supremacy.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Originally posted by Cris


The only true prophecy is one with immense specific detail that is written down, and kept safe and secret until after the event. Even then there is always the chance of coincidence.
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but if you keep it secret until after the event then not even the stupidest of people will believe that you prophesized the event............they will just think you wrote it down and are pretending to have seen it coming long ago.
 
new life,

but if you keep it secret until after the event then not even the stupidest of people will believe that you prophesized the event............they will just think you wrote it down and are pretending to have seen it coming long ago.
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What people choose to think is their problem and would not alter the fact of a true prophecy. If the author of the prophecy wants to be believed then he must take appropriate actions to prove the date when the prophecy was made.

But then we could argue about the value of a prophecy if no one knows about it before the event occurs. But there seems to be two types of prophecy here, one where the result could be influenced by human actions, and the 2nd is where the events would be beyond human control, e.g. the arrival of an asteroid at a fixed date in the future that hits the Earth and causes significant destruction.

So is there any evidence of any prophecy of the second type ever having been fulfilled? I'm not aware of anything but I'd like to hear any suggestions.
 
Fatima?

The closest I can think of is the Virgin at Fatima. But I can't say that it necessarily suits your needs. However, if Fatima is true, the Catholics are allegedly sitting on the secrets of the end of the world and not letting people know.

The Third Secret of Fatima may, in fact, be kept such a secret because it speaks of the end of the Catholic church; it may, in the end, prove true in that sense.

But I can't think of a prophecy that has been successfully pulled off from beginning to end.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
Originally posted by Cris
pumpkins,

I mean the idea of love they neighbor etc., that was created as part of the later Christian paradigm. Those ideas were not foretold. The god of the commandments was cruel, harsh, and tyrannically authoritarian, which was how the peoples of those times expected gods to behave.

The mythmaking process that created Christianity certainly included whatever OT references it could muster to support its storyline; the OT didn't foretell Jesus, but rather the Jesus stories were written so to appear to support the prophecies.
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You obviously know nothing about the history of the Jews written in the Mishnah, and the Talmud, which is a recording of their passed down oral history.

The God of the Hebrew Bible (you call the Old Testament) is a God of love, and mercy and Grace. Who gave us the commandments, motivated by love, to protect us, by warning us against, and defining for us what self-destructive behaviour is.

All breaking of the commandments is self-destructive behavior.

_________________________________
The Lord in Heaven laughs against the schemes of the heathens against His annointed ones. Psalm 2:1-4
 
Originally posted by Cris
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Who or what are these other gods?

If God knows he is the only god then why would he even imply that there is a choice?

If we assume that God does not exist then the commandment makes more sense. It can then be seen as the result of a group of religious zealots trying to assert that their particular fantasy is the best and that other fantasies of gods should be ignored.

Some people interpret this commandment symbolically: they see it as prohibiting the worship of money, status, success, beauty, etc in place of Jehovah. But the commandment text makes no such implications.

If we assume that God really exists and that he is the ONLY god and if we put ourselves in his position, then how would we write this first commandment so it makes sense?

I tried but couldn't create a wording that made sense. If he was the only god then the first commandment is redundant.
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This commandment also makes sense, if we realize that there is a demonic realm, that attempts immitate the real God, and so draw away mankind into worship of itself, rather than the real God.

Also, a good working definition of the Word God, is "the ultimate source." He is the utlimate source of creation, the ultimate source of all good things, our true, and lasting happiness, and He is also the only source of any true personal righteousness, before Him. He is the source of pure love.
 
Re: Re: The First Commandment

Originally posted by biblthmp
This commandment also makes sense, if we realize that there is a demonic realm, that attempts immitate the real God, and so draw away mankind into worship of itself, rather than the real God.
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Umm...one word. Idolotry. The worship of false/fake/imaginary/unreal/not-true/phony gods. I.E. Baal, Greco-Roman, all the various Hindu gods, Television, sciforums, etc.

Television and sciforums are included because they are gods of action. We may not believe in them as gods by our defenition (i.e. superbeings), but they are gods when we place them above everything else in our lives. When we 'worship' them or find them more important than God.
 
Kython,

I understand that potential interpretation but Exodus doesn't say that.

Perhaps if the comandment had said something like "Thou shalt have no imitation gods before me" then maybe you could claim your point.

But the reference was to gods and that implies supernatural beings like God.

Did the authors of the time still believe that there were other gods around and that is why they wrote the commandments that way.
 
biblethmp,

This commandment also makes sense, if we realize that there is a demonic realm, that attempts immitate the real God, and so draw away mankind into worship of itself, rather than the real God.
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So when the commandment says "gods" you would take this to mean evil gods then? Which inplies that God is not the only god.

Also, a good working definition of the Word God, is "the ultimate source." He is the utlimate source of creation, the ultimate source of all good things, our true, and lasting happiness, and He is also the only source of any true personal righteousness, before Him. He is the source of pure love.
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So why would he refer to other gods if he knows there can be only one, himself?
 
biblethmp,

You obviously know nothing about the history of the Jews written in the Mishnah, and the Talmud, which is a recording of their passed down oral history.
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You mean apart from them being told that they are a special chosen people, with their own special god looking out for them. Right?

The God of the Hebrew Bible (you call the Old Testament) is a God of love, and mercy and Grace. Who gave us the commandments, motivated by love, to protect us, by warning us against, and defining for us what self-destructive behaviour is.
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Who is 'us'? If 'us' means the Israelites then I could agree with you, but the vast majority of the OT is concerned with revenge, and death and destruction, wrought by God. This is in serious conflict with your claims of love and grace.
 
But at a guess it looks like the biblical god is the god of the Israelites only. The god of the commandments is just limited to his chosen people only.

That of course implies that other peoples can have their own legitimate gods, but that they are not for the Israelites.

That would make a lot of sense.
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I plan on using that interpretation for a story. Will be fun, as it takes place at the Second Coming(and I'm Mormon, so you can guess what that means). I'm still trying to figure out what other pantheons to use.

God says several times that he's jealous. Literal interpretation would imply the above thoughts, but we know you can't take the bible literally. While at the time, there were things like Baal, some of it still pertains today, since you can put other things before God besides idols. There was the law of Moses, given to the Isrealites because they were stupidheads, and probably couldn't take the real stuff. When Jesus came, he geavethe rest of the law. In the Mormon view, several passages in the new Testament foresee an apostasy of the church, removal of the priesthood, and that's where the part of our name "latter day" comes in. Joseph Smith(can someone tell me where someone got the name "John Smith?") restored the church. The polygamy issue is here, as it was alowed in the old church, and so he reintroduced it, and it was practiced until it was made illegal the the U.S., at which time the church withdrew its support.
 
Originally posted by Cris
biblethmp,

You mean apart from them being told that they are a special chosen people, with their own special god looking out for them. Right?

Who is 'us'? If 'us' means the Israelites then I could agree with you, but the vast majority of the OT is concerned with revenge, and death and destruction, wrought by God. This is in serious conflict with your claims of love and grace.
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By us, I mean all of humankind. The Israrelites were just a people group, that God chose to express His revelation through, not because they were any more righteous. In fact He tell us the reason why He picked them, becasue they were small and weak, so when He defended them, It would be known, that the attacker was fighting against God Himself.

Plus God needed a lineage, to bring the savior of the world through.

I would suggest rereading the Hebrew Bible again. You will see the many time God forgives, upon repentance.

Example, King Manasses of Israel, known as the most wicked King, repented late in life, and God forgave him, sparing His life.
 
The child shouts at whoever females walk past it "Mummy!".

There the orginal mother comes and says "mummy is back.. none else is ur mummy.. ok.. those are look alike mummies.. dont't call those mummies.."

May be OT is halfway thro' and people did not have a complete idea.. so God had to talk in their level...

I've an idea.. God is not restricted to one particular group.. He could have well revealed to other groups, may be at distant lands as per their social, mental conditioning.. One group could not really understand the purpose of God's revealation to another distant group.. just thinking... u atheist..want to watch the fun..!
:D
 
God knew that a lot of other people worshiped false gods, so he put it in scripture that they shouldn't worship them. And besides.. I think he thought that worshipping false gods was like worshipping Satan.

Not that I really believe in the Bible, of course.
 
Thou shalt have no other false gods before me.

Almost implies that he is an even bigger false god.

I think the problem seems to be the negative phrasing. What is really intended seems to be -

Thou shalt worship me and nothing else.

That would eliminate possible other gods and idols.

But he specifically referenced other gods. Perhaps he was afraid of competition. A bit like McDonalds saying "thou shalt not eat at any other burgers bars before me".
 
We make things and people gods for us. That's what He meant. For example, many people make money their god... other people make their mates gods for them.
 
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