The First Commandment

Cris

Cris

In search of Immortality
Valued Senior Member
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

Who or what are these other gods?

If God knows he is the only god then why would he even imply that there is a choice?

If we assume that God does not exist then the commandment makes more sense. It can then be seen as the result of a group of religious zealots trying to assert that their particular fantasy is the best and that other fantasies of gods should be ignored.

Some people interpret this commandment symbolically: they see it as prohibiting the worship of money, status, success, beauty, etc in place of Jehovah. But the commandment text makes no such implications.

If we assume that God really exists and that he is the ONLY god and if we put ourselves in his position, then how would we write this first commandment so it makes sense?

I tried but couldn't create a wording that made sense. If he was the only god then the first commandment is redundant.
 
Who or what are these other gods?
Click to expand...


..money, people, pornography, delusions....you name it....anything that stands in the way of your getting to know God....that's idolotry... anything can be a person's idol...if it's more important to a person than God is, than that is an idol (read: "other gods" )... and, we are all guilty of it to some degree....
 
It could also mean gods of other religons, or gods you make up a belief about to attract attention to yourself for.
 
pumpkinsaren'torange

You said it all so succinctly,

if it's more important to a person than God is, than that is an idol
Click to expand...


I can't think of anything to add.
 
But those are modern interpretations that I do not believe were intended at the time the commandments were written.

The commandment talks about gods as if there can be multiple supernatural gods and potential competitors to God.
 
CA,

OK, but that is slightly too obscure for me.

But at a guess it looks like the biblical god is the god of the Israelites only. The god of the commandments is just limited to his chosen people only.

That of course implies that other peoples can have their own legitimate gods, but that they are not for the Israelites.

That would make a lot of sense.
 
pumkins,

The idea of Jesus wasn't conceived at the time of the commandments.

I can't see where the commandments are expanded to include anyone other than the Israelites.
 
Cris

Most specifically, Ba'al and Astarte. I'll dig up some references later, but in the Chronicles, or Kings, I think, there's a story about the Jews razing temples.

And I wish my Karen Armstrong was here and not there. (It's on a friend's shelf.) Why is it that I think you've read History of God? At any rate, in the early pages, Armstrong describes a scenario whereby a guy is walking through a desert when he sees a burning bush or some such, and then Yaweh-God makes him an offer he can't refuse--allegiance will bring nations to his name. The rest is just building the power base. Knocking off the competition, so to speak.

And I'm having trouble dredging up a non-politicized link about Jewish polytheism, something I hear passing reference to but never do the actual reading. Of course, if it touches at all on the Qabala, then I know where it comes from.

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
tiassa,

Why is it that I think you've read History of God?
Click to expand...
I think that was because I recommended her to you a long time ago.

But on page 29 she says "the events of Exodus made Yahweh the definitive God of Israel."

It looks like the god of the commandments was very much just a cruel and violent god but who fought on the side of the impotent and oppressed, i.e. the Israelites.

How people choose to perceive him has certainly changed over time to where modern day Christians like to think that how they see him now is how he was seen at the time of the Exodus myth. That is patently wrong.

But Jewish polytheism was something I seem to recall being mentioned before, and I suspect it was from you.
 
pumpkins,

The idea of Jesus wasn't conceived at the time of the commandments.

i beg to differ....yes, it was...it was foretold/alluded to many times in the OT.
Click to expand...
I mean the idea of love they neighbor etc., that was created as part of the later Christian paradigm. Those ideas were not foretold. The god of the commandments was cruel, harsh, and tyrannically authoritarian, which was how the peoples of those times expected gods to behave.

The mythmaking process that created Christianity certainly included whatever OT references it could muster to support its storyline; the OT didn't foretell Jesus, but rather the Jesus stories were written so to appear to support the prophecies.
 
How people choose to perceive him has certainly changed over time to where modern day Christians like to think that how they see him now is how he was seen at the time of the Exodus myth. That is patently wrong.
Click to expand...


for a simpleton such as myself...could you please rephrase this...i am not quite sure i am catching the drift...thanks.
:)
 
;
the OT didn't foretell Jesus, but rather the Jesus stories were written so to appear to support the prophecies
Click to expand...


yeah...but, how would they have even KNOWN to write it into scripture...to "put the cart before the horse" if you will?? ...know what i mean?
 
Massoretic Deuteronomy 32:8 speaks of sons/children of Israel.

Early variants (e.g., LXX & Qumran) of this verse speak of sons/angels of God, while the 14th century Aramaic variant reads
DEUTERONOMY 32:8 When the Most High made allotment of the world unto the nations which proceeded from the sons of Noach, in the separation of the writings and languages of the children of men at the time of the division, He cast the lot among the seventy angels, the princes of the nations with whom is the revelation to oversee the city, even at that time He established the limits of the nations according to the sum of the number of the seventy souls of Israel who went down into Mizraim [Egypt].

(Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, translated by J.W. Etheridge)
Click to expand...
So what? So the Ugaritic Deity, El, had 70 Sons by Asherah, and these lesser dieties divided up the kingdom of man.

Deuteronomy 32:8 is best understood as redacted henotheism.
 
pumpkins,

How people choose to perceive him has certainly changed over time to where modern day Christians like to think that how they see him now is how he was seen at the time of the Exodus myth. That is patently wrong.

for a simpleton such as myself...could you please rephrase this...i am not quite sure i am catching the drift...thanks.
Click to expand...
LOL. I should read back what I write.

How about this -

How people choose to perceive him has changed over time. Modern Christians view their god as far less violent than the people of the Exodus period viewed him.
 
pumpkins,

yeah...but, how would they have even KNOWN to write it into scripture...to "put the cart before the horse" if you will?? ...know what i mean?
Click to expand...
In the same way that I can make predictions of the future like -

One day man will land on the moon again.

Some time in the future a world leader will be assassinated.

Some time in the future the USA will cease to be the most powerful nation on the planet.

Etc., etc.

The problem with prophecies is that they can be written such that they can give hope to people that increase the probability of the prophecy being true because it becomes an objective. It is then no longer a prophecy.

The only true prophecy is one with immense specific detail that is written down, and kept safe and secret until after the event. Even then there is always the chance of coincidence.

So the Christian myth writers would have known about the earlier vague prophecies and then weaved their storytelling around those concepts.
 
I knew it was something like that

Cris

Actually I vaguely remember it. But enough people tell me that I'm wrong about details of my memory that I've come to distrust it. (Incidentally, I'm finding in other issues that I was right all along, but that's more an argument to have with my father over about seven or twelve beers.) I just didn't want to be presumptuous, especially on a day when the haze in the room is pleasant.

But as to the Jewish polytheism ... I saw a reference to it on Google the other day when I was looking for the academic assertion that there is no true polytheism in history, and it was in a context that I normally wouldn't have taken. Didn't take the second to check out the link when I should have, but ... er ...

Anyway.

In the meantime, while it serves little toward the actual issue at hand, an interesting article on The Commandments.

I don't know, maybe it will be useful.

I did find an interesting bit elsewhere, which gives me a cornerstone for a comparative comment:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Ex. 20:3) is the first Commandment. Let us briefly consider its meaning. We note its singular number: "thou" not "ye," addressed to each person separately, because each of us is concerned therein. "Thou shalt have no other gods" has the force of, thou shalt own, possess, seek, desire, love or worship none other. No "other gods;" they are called such not because they are so, either by nature or by office (Ps. 82:6), but because the corrupt hearts of men make and esteem them such?as in "whose god is their belly" (Phil. 3:19). "Before Me" or "My face," the force of which is best ascertained by His word to Abraham, "Walk before Me and be thou perfect" or "upright" (Gen. 17:1)?conduct thyself in the realization that thou are ever in My presence, that Mine eye is continually upon thee. This is very searching. We are so apt to rest contented if we can but approve ourselves before men and maintain a fair show of godliness outwardly; but Jehovah searches our innermost being and we cannot conceal from Him any secret lust or hidden idol. (Providence Baptist Ministries)
Click to expand...
This is, on the one hand, a crystal-clear statement of faith. If only we could find such clarity throughout the Biblical adventure ....

And it is a bit of a surprise to me, as I had been concerned with notions of polytheism because I had learned the situation as to reflect the occasional suppression of Judaism, in the context of henotheism. So that while some Jews may be subject at some times to local customs requiring their observance of local religious holidays, Yaweh-God be kept foremost and never forsaken.

But I learned that from either the Lutherans or the Catholics, and I know some people take off points for Catholicism.

However, I did get a new Unitarian slam out of the PB Ministries page. It's a personal thing with me .... ;)

:m:,
Tiassa :cool:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top