i am sure that has already been outlined satisfactorally in the previous posts.
The extent of criminal liability?
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
i am sure that has already been outlined satisfactorally in the previous posts.
I haven't seen "the law" on the issue yet, have you? All I've seen or heard is that someone might be accused of something ....that's a long, long ways from being "the law", wouldn't you say?
I do agree with you that it's stupid and foolish and silly to accuse the guy of being at fault, but again, accusation is NOT legal liability. Yet, in this fast-paced world of the Internet, we continually see that accusations, even if false, can have devastating effects on people. Look at this website, sciforums is rampant with accusations ....yet no one ever goes back a year or two to check any of it out, or find out what happened. So the accusation seems to stand, don't it?
Baron Max
To the best of my knowledge:
first the offense needs to be in commision.
(edit:that parts wong)
um...IF you are driving and a car swerves to avoid you as you are about to hit them AND that car hits another object resulting in DEATH THEN it would meet the criteria as the op does for additional charges.
bear in mind that laws vary by state. if a person dies around you at any time that is not natural causes you have some explaining to do, add criminal activity and it is time to make some phone calls.
Baron Max said:
I'll look around and see what the guy is charged with; they need to accuse him of something by tomorrow, I think. The actual helicopter deaths, though, might not be charged until after the NTSB report.
As to "the law", I might be confused as to what you mean, or you might have missed an earlier post of mine (#1489668 (34) in which I pointed to the statute, or another in which I analyzed the statute (#1489743 (37)) according to Nasor's point (#1489697 (35)).
It would appear that, according to the law, all anyone needs to prove is that this suspect is guilty of unlawful flight from law enforcement, and the basis for charging him with first-degree murder is justified by statute. (See ARS 13-1105).
Good posting
At this point, it would seem that people find the proposition curious (3/4 nay). It will be interesting to see how our opinion changes as the story progresses. For instance, how people will feel if the charge comes to trial, and the jury rejects it for the reasons we appear to.
Apparently, I missed it. Authorities in Arizona brought the suspect to court rather quickly:
They'll wait until they have something from NTSB, most likely, before they charge him with the helicopter crash.
“I’m not a flight risk,” Jones told Commissioner Joan Sinclair during his initial court appearance at Madison Street Jail. “I will man up to what I did. I am responsible for it.”
Jones told the judge that he “blacked out” during the high-speed chase that included two vehicle thefts and led to a barricade situation near 87th Avenue and Encanto Boulevard. He said he didn’t remember the details of the chase and “woke up” in the west Phoenix residence just before the police dogs “tore me up.”
The Arizona Department of Corrections released Jones on parole in April, and he told the judge he was scheduled to get off parole next month. He also said he had done well on parole and went to work like he was supposed to and spent time with his children.
It was not immediately clear what past convictions Jones has on his record.
Deputy County Attorney Tammara Wright requested a $1 million bond for Jones. She said his actions Friday put everyone in the entire community in danger.
Sinclair agreed to the $1 million bond.
Jones faces four charges of aggravated assault, two charges of vehicle theft and one charge of resisting arrest. Phoenix police Chief Jack Harris also said Friday that Jones could face additional charges related to the deaths of the four television journalists who died in the helicopter crash.
Jones was led into the courtroom at 10:50 a.m. Saturday surrounded by five deputies in black tactical gear. He shuffled in slowly looking at the floor. (East Valley Tribune)
Jones told the judge that he “blacked out” during the high-speed chase that included two vehicle thefts and led to a barricade situation near 87th Avenue and Encanto Boulevard. He said he didn’t remember the details of the chase and “woke up” in the west Phoenix residence just before the police dogs “tore me up.”
The Arizona Department of Corrections released Jones on parole in April, and he told the judge he was scheduled to get off parole next month. He also said he had done well on parole and went to work like he was supposed to and spent time with his children.
It was not immediately clear what past convictions Jones has on his record.
Deputy County Attorney Tammara Wright requested a $1 million bond for Jones. She said his actions Friday put everyone in the entire community in danger.
Sinclair agreed to the $1 million bond.
Jones faces four charges of aggravated assault, two charges of vehicle theft and one charge of resisting arrest. Phoenix police Chief Jack Harris also said Friday that Jones could face additional charges related to the deaths of the four television journalists who died in the helicopter crash.
Jones was led into the courtroom at 10:50 a.m. Saturday surrounded by five deputies in black tactical gear. He shuffled in slowly looking at the floor. (East Valley Tribune)
They'll wait until they have something from NTSB, most likely, before they charge him with the helicopter crash.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
No, no no. If I hire people to run out to the street at top speed with heavy cameras and they fall down, the car drivers are not liable.
If the prosecutor comes to the courthouse to prosecute them and falls down a flight of stairs that is not their fault.
If the judge finds the case irritating and gets a heart attack that is not their fault.
If someone makes a t-shirt of the helicopter crash and someone steals a helicopter because of this t-shirt and dies that is nto the criminals fault.
If some idiot leans off his balcony to get a better look at the chase and falls off that is not the criminals resposibility.
If my wife is watching TV and gets excited and goes into labor and the baby is born early that is not the criminals responsibility.
If the police had crashed, OK. They have a legal responsibility to act.
That the TV stations encourage their workers to produce contentless news in what now is clearly risky conditions, there's some liability.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
With you 100%.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
There is a bank robbery.
Some people are interested. They run down the block to get a better look. One falls and hits his head and dies. Is this the bank robbers fault?
Does it become their fault if he was a reporter?
How long and how in depth do we follow this causality?
If they had followed the chase too long and ran out of gas and crashed?
If they had died on the way home?
If I jump a turnstile and some old man gets very angry at my behavior and has a stroke, is this my fault?
If I steal something from the top shelf of a store and the owner goes over to look, is upset and gets on a shakey ladder to check to see if the item is missing and falls to his death, is this my fault?
If he doesn't fall down but he goes home and tells his wife and she dies fo a heart attack while rushing to the phone to call the police, did I kill her? And her son three weeks later who was travelling in malaysia who dies of grief, did I kill him?
If I pay people to take photos from their balconies of the speeders and one of these photographers leans too far out and dies can the speeder be put in jail for murder?
Come on. What a joke?
Nope, just guilty of evading or resisting arrest, tops.
Some of you people really need your head kicked in.
Some of you people really need your head kicked in.
Initiated the whole situation? The helicopter pilots/journalists decided for themselves to put themselves in that position, they wern't forced up there by the driver.
oh, so you do whatever YOU want to do on your job? I already explained why there will be additional charges, the law is ver clear on this.
Apparently the law, even in AZ, is far from "clear on this". Looks like a prosecutor who charges the suspect with the helicopter deaths may well be Nifonged. As one poster elsewhere said, "we don't live in a police state yet".
Well, yes. If I were a helicopter pilot I would be the one making sure I was flying safely, trying to do my job, putting myself at little risk as possible. The driver had nothing to do with the ability of the pilots to navigate safely, its their responsibility.
And the law isnt "clear on this" at all.