The Experience of Death by All Humans
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Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Katazia said:
1917 Fatima Portagal. Esculating Visions over the period of six months which culminated in the Miracle of the Son witnessed over 500 square miles by over a hundred thousand people.
For miracles we have dozens of incooruptalbe Saints -- dead bodies that don't rot or stink after decades and even hundreds of years, in musty old damp Europe and Central and South America.
The last First Magnitude Saint we had was Padre Pio who died in 1968. There are many anecdotes of miracles surrounding him.
Going back in recent Historic Times we have some very great saints. Joseph of Copertino lived at the time of the French Enlightenment -- when all you Atheists put together all of your materialistic arguments and developed the Scientific Method -- and Joseph was able to survive the scrutiny. He was the Levitating Saint -- well, 'flying' would better describe it. Indoors or outdoors he was said to be able to fly at the speed of an arrow, back and forth and all over -- over trees, walls. No contemporary scientist was able to 'shoot it down'.
Go to the Lourdes France website and you will find over a hundred miracles that were verified despite the most demanding and rigorous investigations. But, yes, I know how it works with you people -- as soon as a member of your Scientific Community verifies a Miracle, they are no longer a member of your scientific community.
The best instance here is of Prahlad Jani, a Saint now in Southern India who has not eaten or drank in over 60 years. Recently he was taken to a Western Style Hospital and submitted to study for 10 days -- the Doctor in charge wanted to submit the Study to NASA, on the premise that space travel would be easier if Astronauts did not need to eat or drink. The Study verified that Prahlad Jani indeed was not eating or drinking and was able to sustain his energy levels and body weight despite the lack -- he was scientifically the "Perpetual Motion Machine". Yet, despite all the rigor demanded by Science, the Greater Scientific Community was true to its Orthodoxy by insisting that the Study must have been a Fraud, since it conflicts with Doctrines that are held by Scientific Belief.
I saw Elvis in my mash potatoes, really, then I saw a UFO, and then I also experienced an abduction from aliens, I met jesus there he was beign transported from one galaxy to another doing daddys work, the man was drinking and having a ball at the local space bar.
I couldnt believe he was jesus untill he showed me the holes from the nails on his hands, wow. That was a miracle. And I was not the only person to witness this, for others were on the same ACID trip as I was!!.
Godless.
I couldnt believe he was jesus untill he showed me the holes from the nails on his hands, wow. That was a miracle. And I was not the only person to witness this, for others were on the same ACID trip as I was!!.
Godless.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Godless said:
You are dodging the argument. You are insisting that when I say 'miracle' that I am not really saying 'doing the impossible'. No, I mean the impossible. If it is not obviously impossible on a spectacular scale, then it is not a miracle.
Saint Joseph of Copertino buzzing a Procession on a public street... circling over head and out over the parks and gardens ... "shooting back and forth as fast as an arrow" is way beyond you finding a mash potato with greased back hair and sideburns.
Leo,
From Webster: Miracle: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs.
Where is the connection between those claims of miracles and a god? Why aren’t they just unexplained phenomena?
To prove a miracle you must first prove there is a god that caused them. Where is the proof that a god exists?
Unlike Christianity, science doesn’t claim to have all the answers. If science doesn’t have an answer that doesn’t mean the default answer is that a god did it.
Kat
PS. The Prahlad Jani story was unverified by any of the major agencies who ran the story, i.e. BBC, CNN, etc. If the 10 day tests took place it doesn’t follow that the man hadn’t eaten for 68 years. But even the claimed tests state that he lost some weight by the end. This received the Skeptics Society Gullibility of the week award.
From Webster: Miracle: an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs.
Where is the connection between those claims of miracles and a god? Why aren’t they just unexplained phenomena?
To prove a miracle you must first prove there is a god that caused them. Where is the proof that a god exists?
Unlike Christianity, science doesn’t claim to have all the answers. If science doesn’t have an answer that doesn’t mean the default answer is that a god did it.
Kat
PS. The Prahlad Jani story was unverified by any of the major agencies who ran the story, i.e. BBC, CNN, etc. If the 10 day tests took place it doesn’t follow that the man hadn’t eaten for 68 years. But even the claimed tests state that he lost some weight by the end. This received the Skeptics Society Gullibility of the week award.
* If it is not obviously impossible on a spectacular scale, then it is not a miracle.
This only explains that there has never been a "miracle" because nothing SPECTACULAR has taken place. Other than suppose visions by theists, with their brains washed to tune in what the spectacle perhas looks like, it's ovious that somethings may be unexplained phenomenon, not that there is purpose to this "supposed visions".
* If it is not obviously impossible on a spectacular scale, then it is not a miracle.
True for me to win a billion dollars, without buying a lotto ticket would be considered a miracle!!.
For someone jumping off the Empire State Building and living after wards would be considered a "freak of nature", not a miracle unless the individual wins the N.Y. Marathon the next day!.
Godless.
This only explains that there has never been a "miracle" because nothing SPECTACULAR has taken place. Other than suppose visions by theists, with their brains washed to tune in what the spectacle perhas looks like, it's ovious that somethings may be unexplained phenomenon, not that there is purpose to this "supposed visions".
* If it is not obviously impossible on a spectacular scale, then it is not a miracle.
True for me to win a billion dollars, without buying a lotto ticket would be considered a miracle!!.
For someone jumping off the Empire State Building and living after wards would be considered a "freak of nature", not a miracle unless the individual wins the N.Y. Marathon the next day!.
Godless.
Sufi said:
What have I told you about quoting the Qur'an! The entire verse and its place in the Qor'an.
Aal-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3: verse 185
"Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception."
The Truth
Please note the day of judgment! Sufi said:
What you describe is the soul. How can you pretend to know it and be a Muslim if the Prophet -peace be upon him- didn't. When Allah says only He knows it.
Al-Isra (The Journey by Night) 7: verse 85
"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
The spirit is the Soul.
If Ahmed Baki and the rest are the ones that tell you these things than they are not Muslim (I don't say that lightly). If they say that they believe in the Qur'an and its truth then they are lying to you. And if they are lying to you about this, who knows what else they are lying about.
I pray you come to your senses.
:m:
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bruce said:
he would'nt be religious and posting on sciforums/religion, if he did.
then again he would, just to debunk the grap thats get's spread, by the fundi's.
the preacher said:
Can you prove it?!
l.o.l.the preacher said:
Oke, so a believing person is not sane. But if he is believing but speaks against the "fundis" than he is sane. Sure glad sanity doesn't depend on your logic.
bruce.
I dont understand your statement, "can you prove it" prove what
and your next line "Ok, so a believing person is not sane." quite right, they are not thinking clearly.
and you mis-understood the preacher, in is first line he say's religious, and his next he say's then again, (which mean's the opposite, not religious) so his logic is good.
ok:
I dont understand your statement, "can you prove it" prove what
and your next line "Ok, so a believing person is not sane." quite right, they are not thinking clearly.
and you mis-understood the preacher, in is first line he say's religious, and his next he say's then again, (which mean's the opposite, not religious) so his logic is good.
ok:
You can't use science to prove or disprove something that is irrational. Anything supernatural is also irrational. Science is actually just an attempt to understand the rules of the universe. God is supernatural and does not have to be bound by those rules.
If you want to talk about computers then it's very simple.
virgil - Can computers shoot mind controling rays out from the moniter?
rational - no
irrational - yes they can! i saw it on teenage mutant ninja turtles
rational - but that can't happen in real life
irrational - I know that's why it has to happen in cartoons
virgil - did god create the heavens and the earth?
rational - nobody can create themselves
irrational - god created everything. nobody created God
rational - nothing can exist that didn't come from somewhere
irrational - i know that's why god had to make it all
If you want to talk about computers then it's very simple.
virgil - Can computers shoot mind controling rays out from the moniter?
rational - no
irrational - yes they can! i saw it on teenage mutant ninja turtles
rational - but that can't happen in real life
irrational - I know that's why it has to happen in cartoons
virgil - did god create the heavens and the earth?
rational - nobody can create themselves
irrational - god created everything. nobody created God
rational - nothing can exist that didn't come from somewhere
irrational - i know that's why god had to make it all
Bruce Wayne said:Can you prove it?!
Oke people. In the midst of this serie of letters there is a signal for a smile and loughs out loud. I think that the preacher was wiser as he saw the joke in it and didn't find it nessecary to dispute a joke. You, on th eother hand, misunderstood me.
(The joke: I was mocking the inherent limitation of the "sane" materialists to matter)
mustafhakofi said:
Yeess....
mustafhakofi said:
Indeed you do not. (explained above)
mustafhakofi said:
I don't happen to agree with you here. But I, personaly, think that some that says that is either insane or ignorant.
mustafhakofi said:
No you misunderstood me and the preacher.
mustafhakofi said:
the preacher said:
In the first sentence he says religious+posting here=insane (not in his senses)
In the second he says religious+posting here+disagree with fundi's=sane. (religious+posting here are inherent to Sufi, Disagree with Fundi's is the added variable). What changes his (in)sanity is that he debunkes the grap...
Think about it.
P.S: It was not my intention to prove he was being illogical. Since he builds his reasonning on the false premis that religious means insane, that was not needed.
I have replied most of your other questions above in my other threads.
Becasue the person cannot go beyond this life and body to which he has become so accustomed. Because he has closed his door all along his lifetime to the limitless possibilities deep within himself and does not allow himself to transcends his physical environment. Because he has not enough spirtual power to detach himself from this world and body.
Other realms defies our laws of science and logic, therefore need our belief to create what we may have previously thought to be impossible in our lives.
You see, there is not a god out there that will someday hold us accountable. But we achieve our own future by our own thoughts and deeds today.
You seem you are committed to limit yourself to the five senses in anyway. Therefore, do not seek remedy for your pain. Your pain is your remedy, appreciate it!
Katazia said:
Becasue the person cannot go beyond this life and body to which he has become so accustomed. Because he has closed his door all along his lifetime to the limitless possibilities deep within himself and does not allow himself to transcends his physical environment. Because he has not enough spirtual power to detach himself from this world and body.
Other realms defies our laws of science and logic, therefore need our belief to create what we may have previously thought to be impossible in our lives.
You see, there is not a god out there that will someday hold us accountable. But we achieve our own future by our own thoughts and deeds today.
You seem you are committed to limit yourself to the five senses in anyway. Therefore, do not seek remedy for your pain. Your pain is your remedy, appreciate it!
Sufi,
Kat
What you seem to be implying is that there is somewhere else to go but no one can reach it. That is an entirely pointless paradigm.
Why?
You appear to be describing the world of fairy tales, the world of the imagination, a dream world, i.e. places that do not exist.
I know that’s why I am an atheist.
I totally agree.
I’ll use any and all senses available but there are only five so there isn’t any choice is there?
That’s simply meaningless gibberish.
Kat
Katazia said:
Belief is a tool to use to reach the unknown that defies our laws and logic. Otherwise it is not a "belief"! You will see it if you believe it.
How can you use any other if available as long as you insist on that there are only five and none else, and unleess you open yourself to any other?