The Divine Man

[battig1370]

Jesus became the Divine Man, because He overcame, and also, He said, it is possible for any other person to be perfect as your Father in heaven.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" - ( Matt. 5:48 )

Peace be with you, Paul

 

[§outh§tar]

and?

 

[duendy]

Jesus became the Divine Man, because He overcame, and also, He said, it is possible for any other person to be perfect as your Father in heaven.

What is really REALLY dangeerous friend, is when people claim one can be P E R FECT! It is an impossiblity. And the dogma was devized to....GUILT you. to divide you and control you. This is an authoritarian strategy used by so-called religions, cults, States, etc so as to unbalance you, and magnetize you to their authority. In the Christian propaganda the authority is a perfect 'God'....who is all-good.
But natrual life isn't like these silly one-sided ideas of the patriarchy, it is MUCH more complex. perfection is embedded in imperfection in a dynamic continuum. saying one can be perfect is like saying one can be 'up' or 'right' and so on. it doesn't make sense..........'perfect' is an abstract term as is 'imperfect'..in reality these dont exist!


"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" - ( Matt. 5:48 )

Peace be with you, Paul

Yes peace is good. we will only have a REAL peace when we srop the ideas these silly men concocted to control the individual

 

[Adstar]

I always have fun with people who preach sinlessness in the flesh. All you have to do is ask them if they are sinless. Now they know they are with sin so by their own doctrine they condemn themselves. Because as they say if you are one of His you will cease to sin.

So battig1370 have you ceased to sin? are you now perfect?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Leo Volont]

Jesus became the Divine Man, because He overcame, and also, He said, it is possible for any other person to be perfect as your Father in heaven.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" - ( Matt. 5:48 )

Peace be with you, Paul

Jesus may have 'become' a Man, after having been a boy. In another way He may have matured considerably in His ability to get along with people (it was alluded to in the Gospel of Thomas that the little boy Jesus would instantly curse to death adults that annoyed Him, and so Joseph had anxieties about Mary ever letting little Jesus out of the house. Later in life Jesus would develop a great deal more impulse control). But He did not 'become' Divine. He was born Divine, just as Mary His Mother was born Pure.

But I can see how you could win over a great many other Religions to Christianity, if you would concede the point of Christ's inherent Divinity, but it would be to relegate Christ to being only a mere Saint in His Own Religion and it would be rather dismissive of Mary the Immaculate Conception, for, if Christ was born an ordinary human being, then of course Mary would have been only an ordinary woman.... no Angels singing and praising Her.

But I am convinced Christ was special... was Divine. The Hebrew Traditions may have skewed their prophecies, and may have entirely misinterpretted all of their Oracles regarding the Messiah, but still I suppose they did in fact have instances of foreknowledge that the Messiah of the World we be born from their Race. We also have the Three Kings of the Orient, who, in responding to their own Prophecies, were aware that there would be a King of Kings.

The Writings regarding the Visions of Anne Catherine Emmerich shine some light on the Advant of Christ. One instance, that is scarsely reported upon, is that many of the Earth Spirits and Spirits of the Air, at the Birth of Christ, simply abandoned the World and fled. Much of the Magic of Witchcraft and Shamonism, and a great deal of the Magic in Polytheistic Ritual was all at once nullified. The Religious Historian can see almost at once a great watershed in Religious History -- that the Primitive Religions of Witchcraft and Shamanism and the Polytheistic Religions, even without the direct influence of Christianity, seemed to redirect their orientation away from the ritualistic worship of minor spirits toward higher and more universal considerations. It explains Christianity's quick assimulation of Europe from the Druids, who, since they lost the power of their familiar Spirits who abandoned them, were more than willing to adopt the New Religion with its Marian Apparitions inhabiting their old shrines.

 

[Adstar]

Well battig1370 have you ceased to sin? are you now perfect?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Leo Volont]

Well battig1370 have you ceased to sin? are you now perfect?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Well... Battig may simply be not applying himself.

In one of the early centuries there was a Bishop named Peligius who happened upon the Theological Doctrine that sin could be avoided simply by willing not to sin. Will power... imagine that.

As for 'perfect'... it is difficult to even know what the word means. The word is suggestive of mathematical absolutes. But we are talking about social behavior. What does 'perfect' mean in a social setting. Perhaps it is not good enough to just say 'good morning' to people, but to be 'perfect' you would need to buy everybody a dozen red roses. The word 'perfect' may have some esoteric mystical meaning, but certainly no meaning that would count for anything among secular humanist atheists.

 

[an>roid.v2]

Jesus became the Divine Man, because He overcame, and also, He said, it is possible for any other person to be perfect as your Father in heaven.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" - ( Matt. 5:48 )

Peace be with you, Paul

He overcame what? He overcame being a mere man? Then he owes a lot to having been a mere man, for without it he never would've attained his... "divinity"?

Why the hell do you guys keep spitting at yourselves? Can't figure it out. Mind you -- I have no objections! Spit all you want. BUT. But remember this: I do not belong in your harem.

 

[Leo Volont]

He overcame what? He overcame being a mere man? Then he owes a lot to having been a mere man, for without it he never would've attained his... "divinity"?

How's that logic supposed to work. Why is it that one must first be a man before one can be God.

Is man some kind of a very special Monkey?

couldn't a Cat get there?

I wonder whether the Universe could not simply be Divine on its own?

 

[duendy]

duendy(((( utter rubbish!.....you seem to believe fairy stories Leo. in 'Divine Men' or 'MAN', as the case may be. M A L E at any rate. And of spirits running for cover.

i notice you conventiently dont mention about the Christian Inquisition, and their evil doings in persecuting and murdering in their hundreds of thousands, 'witches', heretics, and all those who didn't believe in the faith. If it had been so simple that the 'spirits' DId flee at the advent of you believed-in mythicaly character, "Jesus Christ", why the EFFORT to persecute pagans, their 'followers'?...doesn't really make sense does it?

 

[Leo Volont]

Regarding the Inquisition, all of you Protestant Atheists forget that Catholicism was MORE THAN a simple Church, as we understand that today. The Catholic Church was the Central Governing Institution, or at least it was until the National entities (Spain, France, England) took over and stopped listening to the Pope. Being the Governing Agency for a vast Territorial Civilization many factors outside of ordinary religious concerns needed to be taken into account. So we had the Inquisition which was comparable to what we now would call Immigration and Naturalization, or even Homeland Security. The issue was with Muslim and Jews in Spain who had recently been Enemies of the State. Remember that Spain had just liberated itself from hundreds of years of Muslim Occupation in which the Jews had largely sided with the Conquerors. Also, remember that the Sultan in Turkey could at any time put together his own Armada to again open up hostilities to regain Iberia and assault Christendom. So it was sensible to monitor Muslims and Jews, in Iberia (Spain). The records still exist. You can review any trial that you wish. In fact, the Protestants have been talking a great deal about the Inquisition without ever once going over the documentation. You see, the English made up their stories about the Inquisition when they went to War against Spain and Continental Europe. Pure Propaganda, and nothing more. They have never revised their Story to correlate with the Truth. And you Protestant Atheists still persist in repeating it.

Regarding Witch Burnings. The Catholic Church was appalled at them and that is why they sent "Inquisitions" into these areas -- in order to provide Trials that would absolve the wrongly accused. Again the Transcipts are still on file. You can continue to repeat the same old English Anti-continental anti-Catholic Propaganda or you can examine the details and find that the Catholic Church was the voice of Reason and Civilization throughout.

 

[duendy]

Leo...for a start, i am not a 'protestant athiest'...yes i as brought up in the tradition of protestantism...namely 'C of E', but i have never been religious regarding their meaning of it, never went to chruch etc. so please dont label me blindly, and i wont do the same with you

What you say is complte and utter poppycok. You must read a good book about the Inquisition, and also you will learn of its modern equivalent, The Manufacture of Madness: A Comparative Study of the Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement

Thing is Leo, you REALLY insult all women, and pagans, if you refuse and deny the Inquisition's part in their unprecendeted and horrific persecution, that many many sources have recounted.

The Church/Inquision like 'IMMIGRATION control, etc'??.....puleeeze. Yes and throw in awful threats of turture and murder (not that immigrants are treated fairly in our times mind).....Are you aware that even artists/painters were threatened with severe punishment if they didn't abide by the rules of composition

The Catholic Church was a stranglehold on the people man. where the heck do you get your info from?.......you seem to exist in some strange time loop. ie., imagining i am some protestant 'hereitc' attacking (your)? catholoic church. BOTH catholic and protestant are part of the same sorry pattern, as wass science. please try and see the pattern. it is the patriarchal, which want s totalitarian control of people

i would hint that grokking a pattern running THROUGH the differnt bracnhes of same mindset is more fruitful than just focussing soley on one element of the pattern

 

[Red Devil]

Jesus became the Divine Man, because He overcame, and also, He said, it is possible for any other person to be perfect as your Father in heaven.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" - ( Matt. 5:48 )

Peace be with you, Paul

Like all bible punchers you have no words of your own. Go forth and multiply!

 

[Leo Volont]

The Catholic Church was a stranglehold on the people man.

The Catholic Church brought us Civilization from out of the Dark Ages.

And now do you suppose Secular Government and Capitalist Exploiters do not exercise a "stranglehold" on us? Look at America -- that Nation has almost a million of its citizens in jail who never harmed a fly. What Catholic Nation has ever so oppressed its people? You revile Religion without seeing that the modern Threat to Civil Liberties is the tyranny of Democratic Majorities -- majorities that are formed by people of lesser and lesser education, as Conservatives discover that the stupider people are, the more likely they are to get their vote.

Oh and about the Arts. Do you think that Leonardo De Vinci, Michelangelo or Raphiel complained much about being sponsored by the Church. Indeed, for Centuries at a time the Arts were almost entirely sponsored by The Church.

Now that the Church has been defeated, look around and tell me that Archetecture has not declined, Music Declined, the Graphic Arts not only declined but slipped entirely back to Primitivism. Indeed, as far as the arts go, I would conclude that we no longer even have a Civilization. compared to the Arts of a High Civilization, what we have today is cesspool full of crap.

 

[duendy]

LEO.....i didn't give you the book's--i recommended you read--author, so here's the whole lot agin...
The Manufacture of Madness: a Comparative Study of the Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement, by Thomas Szasz ISBN 0-8156-0461-0


and also, IF you believe the Catholic church has changed its tune, then rethink...see:
'Catholic Encycolpedia: Witchcraft'
www.newadvent.org/cathen/15674.htm

As they say; A leopard never changes its spots......!

 

[Leo Volont]

Like all bible punchers you have no words of your own. Go forth and multiply!

That shows what you know! The man's views are not only entirely his own, but completely heretical. He is saying that Christ is not God... that Christ was a mere man.

You really ought to read a book or do something in order to get a clue.

 

[Red Devil]

Leo: The Dark Ages were not even dark as much learning and innovation took place in this period. It was nicknamed the "dark ages" through lack of proper records of the time but archeology has proven beyond doubt, that, especially here in the UK, there was a flourishing trade with Egypt and the Mediterranean, there were books being written, people could read, albeit not all that many, farming methods were "significantly" advanced for the time and social infrastructure did not perish with the departure of Rome, but actually improved. Diet was rich and varied and people ate off plates etc made in Turkey and the region. The monasteries palyed a large part in this and were excellent teachers to the "masses".

As for the three artists you promote in your thread, they were all members of a society opposed to the church in rome.

 

[Leo Volont]

LEO.....i didn't give you the book's--i recommended you read--author, so here's the whole lot agin...
The Manufacture of Madness: a Comparative Study of the Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement, by Thomas Szasz ISBN 0-8156-0461-0


and also, IF you believe the Catholic church has changed its tune, then rethink...see:
'Catholic Encycolpedia: Witchcraft'
www.newadvent.org/cathen/15674.htm

As they say; A leopard never changes its spots......!

The problem with reading History in the English Language is that all the sources are Protestant and English.

Now what can be learned from reading English Protestant attacks on Catholicism. It is not as though they are telling you the truth. If the Protestants in England are not out to destroy The Church, then you have the Free Masons on the Continent who would be happy to destroy the Church.

Can you tell me your books are not influenced by English Protestant Historical Traditions or by Free Masons whose program is to lie about everything?

Think about what you are doing. We once had a civilization. Now you are taking the side of the Barbarians who would pillage and destroy that Civilization. Have there not been more wars since your Protestant and Masonic Heroes have torn down The Church. Have the continuous Revolutions not drawn enough blood to make you happy?

Why do you choose the side of chaos and destruction?

You should stop listening to their lies.

Do you really think that George Bush is doing better than the Pope?

 

[Red Devil]

George bush has more influence than the leader of a dying religion. BUT slightly aside, doesn't Bill Gates exert even more influence?

 

[duendy]

Leo, here's the correct address....fingers crossed
www.newadvent.org/cathen/15674a.htm

about your belief in a 'DIVINE' man who is 'God'. do you really believe this tale? that A man in historical time was this 'God'?....how so. that would disenfranchize all of us wouldn't it.

the whole story Leo is a myth. it is NOt to be taken seriously. many ancients KNEw that mythology was only allegory, and not to be taken as truth (i wont say 'gospel' truth...haha)

The myth is really layered, and its superficial layer is for the easily led, and the deepest for the initiated of whatever cult is being addressed (not that i am saying the deepest layer is interpreted as THE truth. it might be for those who believe it, but i am a questioner. if something dont feel right, i will challenge it

OK. if you are serious about exploring this myth, and dont cling to it as rock for the unsurities of your liffe, then you MUSt be aware of its pagan influences. you cannot look at the Christian myth as unique. it is not unique but a mish mash of Judaism and pagan belief. the whole notion of a god-man was well known the the pagan world LONG bfore JC hit the scene

What the Christians did was historicalize the god-man motif. Whereas before the god-man represented the every living ever dying ever regenerating Son of Goddess, with the Christian myth Goddess is denigrated and/or totally made into a submissive sexless 'Virgin'....Jesus also is asexual, and he constantly emphasizes a 'Father' he must retrn to. Whereas in the originary pagan god~man mythology it is Goddess son cyclically returns to. With the 'Christ' it is 'up' to the sky, and not regenerating

you see Leo, this son represnts in pagan myth, --one of his main associations--NATURE. The seasons come and goes, the son/sun is 'born' and 'dies', vegetation does too, as do sacred hallucinogenic plants!
He was also VERY much the latter too. Allegro in his book The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross reveals that 'Christ' secretly refers to 'Chrestos'--an hallucinogenic mushroom.

So, are you getting warmer Leo....? Th whole idea of the Divine Man, ie., god~man is not some strange ACTUAL solo MAN in history who is 'God' (an invention of patriarchy)....he is rather YOU me, him HER who ingests the sacrament and is 'REBORN'...is in communion with Nature, with life, with ecstasy. who becomes 'possessed/enthused' by the plant/god~man

in this way this mythic pattern makes more sense don't you think. it comes H E R E. it MEANs something deep for you and me. it doesn't dis-empower us and tie us to the brutal authority of a church which pushed the propaganda of some ACTUAL god-man who was perfect, and we are 'MERE' in comparison disregarding O U R suffering

for when you think about it--if you were to take the christ-myth seriously. like big DEAL, he knew it was coming, and sufferd a shrt time of suffering and went to heaven...some people, including kids spend MUCH more time fuking suffering!