The Devil: no atheists please!

T

The Devil Inside

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i am only concerned with the opinions of folks that actually BELIEVE in god and the devil here....
tell me......how do you define him/her/it?
 
God? --- the giver of the Spirit of Truth and Love.

Devil? --- the giver of the Spirit of Lies and Hate.

Peace be with you, Paul
 
http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/i/iblis.html




Iblis is the name for the devil in the Qur'an. Although the term "devil" comes from the Greek diabolos, the Muslims derived the name from the Arabic, balasa, "he despaired," which can be interpreted "despaired of the mercy of God" but he is also al-Shairan, Satan, and "the enemy of God." The latter aspect of Satan is a commonly shared belief of both Muslims and Christians. According to one tradition, when Allah ordered the angels to bow down to the newly created man, Adam, Iblis refused to do so because he, being made of fire, thought himself superior to a creature made of earth. He continues tempting humans, especially through the whisper (waswas, "he whispered") and false suggestion (haiif). In the end, it is believed, he will be cast into Jahannam. Another commonly shared belief held by both religions is that the universal existence of evil in personal lives is usually experienced as a consequence of a personal agent, the devil.
 
Smells like a setup to me.
What it is you are waiting with baited breath to post?
 
The Devil Inside said:
what about your opinion though? is that paragraph your opinion too?
just wondering.
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Well that is the Koranic account so yes that it my opinion also :m:
 
The Devil Inside said:
i am only concerned with the opinions of folks that actually BELIEVE in god and the devil here....
tell me......how do you define him/her/it?
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Well like one_raven i suspect your just waiting to post something :D

But that’s ok, i will try to give a definition.

God:
Has existed always, will always exist. Creator of all that exists apart from Himself. Holder of absolute power and all knowledge.

devil/satan/lucifer
Created individual, was deluded by self-love and pride. Sought to demonstrate that he is equal of God. Seeks to take away Gods justification for being God by attempting to undermine Gods plans to show God as fallible.

Ummm that’s just off the top of my head :) It's pretty rough i guess but i guess if it gets you to post what your dying to post then it serves a purpose i guess.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
There's no such thing as the devil. Satan/Lucifer, yes, but not the devil. The classic image of the devil is all made up.

- N
 
I suggest you read "Murder Mysteries" by Neil Gaiman.
It's a very short story that you can finish in no more than half an hour or so (the graphic novel version is a bit better).
 
Form reading about NDEs it is quite evident that some people report experiencing entities described as angels,
devils, God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, ETs, other entities etc etc
also from other sources over the centruies this is so.....St Anthony and his demons etc etc
So...i also have experienced 'OBE' and meeting entities, two of which were mythological looking...with horns. and it wwas VERy real

What does all this mean?
well i understnd that there seems to be an Imaginal Realm where anything is possible. so for example, if one does believe in western christianity, thn usually they may meet 'Jesus' 'God' etc and some experience 'Hell' and meet old Nick
In India, they usually meet the Lord of Death--as thqat is in their tradition

i read several very interesting NDEs and one was this dude who questioned what was happening and it went off the wall, as it were, in that the usual stuff faded away and he went deeper

so i am wondering if one's beliefs condition one's experiences in these imaginal realms. i think it will

does it mean Jesus, God, Devil exists? in one way yeah, but in another way, no. they exist as far as a person invests their imagination in them. just like your realiy exists just as it does if you feel that you HAVe to live a hum drum life, or do what your parents tell you to do--regarding career, etc..or what the politician says you must do, and so on.

obviously, NONE of us know what ACTUALLY happens once we are really dead. but i think that's cool. i love a good mystery
 
one_raven said:
Smells like a setup to me.
What it is you are waiting with baited breath to post?
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lol no no no....no setup.....i just wanted a change of pace for this thread. i am just curious about what ppl believe.
thats all.
 
Satan does not have horns, a tail or a pitchfork. He is a disembodied spirit that is in the same form as we are. he was once one of the very highest angels, but he rebelled against God. He and his followers were cast down to Earth in their spirit form. Now they roam the Earth tempting man and trying to thwart God's plan. Satan is evil, but being only a spirit he can only manifest his evil through us. He is the catalyst for man's natural evil nature. He takes advantage of it and uses it for his evil designs.
 
Prester John

This has been discussed in other threads. God did not create evil. God created free will and evil is just a natural byproduct of that. God didn't make Lucifer evil. Lucifer chose to become evil himself. Just like God did not create man evil. He gave Adam and Eve a choice to fall or forever stay in the Garden. They chose to fall and become mortal. Man has both a good and evil nature. It is our free will to choose which side to take.
 
As far as I can glean from the bible, Satan was not deceptive at all.
Satan was completely honest and God was actually the liar.
That is, if you consider the serpent of Genesis to be Satan.

Genesis 3:

3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
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Satan, as tradition has it, is always honest and offers square deals.
Why trust the liar and manipulator?

Lucifer was a man, not Satan.
I very well could be mistaken, but from what I can see the two are not one and the same.
The Lucifer mentioned in Isaiah 14 (the single time Lucifer is mentioned by name in the Bible) was a king that had the audacity to place the power of his throne on a pedestal looking down upon God...
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
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Much of the rest of the accounts of Lucifer and Satan come from Catholic presupposition and literary licence.
 
brutus: what a crock, god is evil, the devil is just a scape goat. dare I quote misty to name but one. " there are over 650 evil deeds done by god directly or indirectly in the the bible and just over 50 by the devil and none of the latter killed anybody."
and what free will, your xian life has been pre-ordained.
the devil was/is not a man and therefore, not treated thus, so cannot be compared.
 
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One Raven.

The scripture you are refering to is telling of Lucifer's attempt to supplant God and take all the glory for himself. For doing so he was cast out with all his legion of followers to Earth and became Satan. This happened before man was ever introduced to the Earth.

Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
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Brutus1964 said:
Prester John

This has been discussed in other threads. God did not create evil. God created free will and evil is just a natural byproduct of that. God didn't make Lucifer evil. Lucifer chose to become evil himself. Just like God did not create man evil. He gave Adam and Eve a choice to fall or forever stay in the Garden. They chose to fall and become mortal. Man has both a good and evil nature. It is our free will to choose which side to take.
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Hmm i'm sure god did create evil, it says so in Genesis. The real question is why did he create it, either he couldn't create without it in which case his omnipotence is doubtful, or didn't foresee its occurence in which case his omniscience is doubtful. Then again maybe hes just a malevolent sob, or rather his human creators were. ;)
 
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Brutus1964 said:
The scripture you are refering to is telling of Lucifer's attempt to supplant God and take all the glory for himself. For doing so he was cast out with all his legion of followers to Earth and became Satan. This happened before man was ever introduced to the Earth.
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I can't see how that interpretation came about.
Lucifer was a King of Babylon who was condemned to Hell by God for attemting to place the power of his throne above God, and for so horribly mistreating the people that were under his rule.

There is no mention of Satan or the Devil.
Where do you get that it occurred before man existed?
Where do you get that it was Satan?

I always wondered where that translation came from.
If I am missing something, please point it out to me.

Here's the full text of Isaiah 14:
The Proverb against the King of Babylon
1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 that thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 that made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcass trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
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