So then you're of the belief that people who say "At least she'll get to see (insert pre-deceased relative here) are at the very least presumptuous, and at worst, wildly mischaracterizing heaven in the first place? I get what you're saying, so long as she's in heaven, she won't miss anyone, but that to me essentially means she's not who she was on earth, loving wife, loving mother, etc. She's now just some weird form of happiness, but without any point of reference. The only way this sounds like it'd work to me, where she's some disembodied spirit of bliss, is if she indeed remembers some sort of state where she was "less than" this. In other words, if she doesn't remember what used to make her happy, and doesn't remember how happy she was on earth, is 'happiness' even a meaningful word?
Try it this way: One of the reasons I give the character of Jesus a little more credit, these days, than I used to, is that He apparently knows something Sufis also think they understand. I would try to explain it to you, but the one part of the explanation I do understand clearly is the part about why they don't just outright explain it. Or, maybe, in the moment, that doesn't help, either.
But consider
Michael 345's↑ (
ahem!) problematic questions. Flip a coin: Heads, take his ignorance seriously. Tails, take his hatred seriously. It's one thing to set a low bar, as plenty of religious evangelists do, and, well, nearly the same to see an identifying atheistic evangelist demand one even lower.
To the other, your argument is wandering both close to and far from its own point. That is, sure, you're grasping an important question, but you let people you already don't trust set the terms, so you're mucking around in a range you don't understand because neither do you trust the terms. It's a trap you've set for yourself, and nobody is surprised when folks actually fall in.
If you can braid notions of oneness, retention of experience, and the release of earthly concerns, then you're even closer.
Consider, though, to the other, the dying person, the dignity we hope to afford, the holding of a hand so they are not alone, yet there is always someone nearby to seek bitter satisfaction at the expense of others in reminding that we all die alone.
The idea that love and family are somehow set aside compared to the ultimate reality is what compared to the more mundane reasons to believe that death is death, and we all die alone?
Can you see? To the one, it is a terrible offense in some way to set aside family that way. To the other, in more mundane and nontheistic terms, we already acknowledge the paucity of family compared to the prospect of death. And in either case, the justification is the same: Maybe we all die alone, but at least we're not living alone. But if you're offended at the prospect that reconciliation with God precludes the earthly concerns, fears, and wants, then remember the next time you hear someone dignify human dignity, get in their face and tell them they're wrong as if Christ Himself just told you to hate your family in order to go to Heaven.
What does it mean to be one with God? While there are many arguments toward that answer, very few of them have anything to do with worrying about what the neighbors say if your children are seen in off-brand clothing.
¡Q & A with Saint Peter!
• Do I get to see my dog in Heaven?
Why, yes, you do! In fact, the Lord is so dedicated to your happiness that He will deprive Fido of the rest and oneness your devoted best friend otherwise deserves for the sake of your petty, mortal concerns. Just like everyone around you in your mortal life, Fido will now spend eternity suffering deprivation so that you, personally, can feel happy and rewarded and loved. Welcome to Heaven. Do you want your Mommy? Fine, she'll suffer, too. Just for you. Congratulations on being such a good person you finally made it to Heaven.
This seems somewhat a denominational or doctrinal point to me ... this isn't how heaven is pitched to the non-believer. Basically if you believe in Jesus, you get to be happy forever is the short form.
To the one, Jesus
did warn people about this. To the other, even those He warned about are willing to make the point he warned people. Grifters are as grifters will, but this set really needed the marks to do their work for them.
One way of looking at it: The underlying question is, technically, moot; the discursive questions are symptomatic of human frailty.