The character of Loki

O

orcot

Valued Senior Member
Loki is recurrent mythological figure in Norse mythology (Eddas)

And is described the blood brother of Odin and seems to be the somewhat evil character in the mythology. Tough he's actions are someone resembling a split personality. He's evil to the end that he's been chained under a mountain until ragnarock, but their also many stories where he's actualy the good guy. And their is many more proof fror his dualty.

But what I wonder is: Are Loki and Odin actualy the same person?

(wow this is the first thread)
 
On what grounds you base that assumption?

Loki is a trickster god, one of many trickster gods that the world mythologies share from Africa to the Arctic, from America to China, to Australia.

He is a very distinctive fellow and, imo, should not be confused with Odin, which is another category altogether.

I haven't read this article, but it should hold some information on the trickster archetype: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster
 
More of a mischief god, than evil god.

Easier to compare(for me) to Dionyses than to the "devil". Valueing individual freedom over Odin's overlord(allfather) authority.
 
In numerous mythologies, solar deities tend to have double aspects, one benevolent, associated with the Sun during the day, and the other malevolent, associated with night, when the Sun is trapped in the underworld.

Avatar and nietzschefan are right. Loki could be described more as a deciever, trickster and mischief god, not as a impersonation of pure evil.

As many gods who took effigy of devil after transition from paganism to monotheistic religions, Loki was just a scapegrace who liked to make jokes of others. A rogue.
Devil is monotheistic creation.

But, while Loki shouldn't be mistaken for Odin, there was a lot of cases in many mythologies, where one god was often mixed up with other god.
And that's exactly dual nature of some gods.

Example for that is Slavic god Dazbog, Dazhbog or Dazhdbog (South-Slavic Dabog or Dajbog, Czech Dažbog, Polish Dażbóg) who could be identified with Loki in Norse mythology.

He was one of major gods in Slavic mythology and possible harbinger of later culture heroes in the folklore.

One sources say that he was solar deity. Other that he was son of Svarog (main Slavic god and actually solar deity). But, there are also many sources who claims that Dabog was main opponent of Svarog and ruller on the Earth, while Svarog was lord in the Nav (heaven).

Often he was described in folklore as a 'lame (connection with the devil and with many evil gods in other mythologies) "shepherd of wolves", an ugly demon-lord who rules the underworld and travels through world of men', deceiving them, but often help them as well.
Described as a dexterous craftsman, especially in smithery, he instructed men how to use their skills.

Although, his name was probably derived from the verb 'dat' which means 'to give', he was often mistaken for Chernobog (Black god), but also with many other gods as well.

Cthonic character of Dabog is mostly mentioned in South Slavic folklore and it fits very nicely with the solar Dazbog mentioned in Russian sources.

Other possible explanation, why some gods that were once worshiped, turned into personification of evil are monotheistic religions.
Main politheistic paganic god was threat and he was often turned into main opponent of new god.
Actually, correction. Devil got all attributes of former paramount deity.

He was cunning, deceiver, mocker, lame blacksmith and often he was hanging around with wolves. Of course, he was a bit evil.
But, he had bright moments, helping mortals and all that stuff. Thanks to his dual nature.

So, speaking of the devil.

Loki. Yes. Dabog. Also. And many other gods too.
 
Imho, the idea of evil is a present day fabric, well, at least when it concerns christian, judaistic, islam and a few other middle eastern mythologies.

We project the idea of good and evil onto older gods and decide who were evil, and who were not based on our nowaday world view and nowaday most popular mythology - the christianity.

But was Hades regarded as evil because he abducted Persephone?
Or was Fenris evil because he bit Tyr's hand off?

The answer seems that it's their nature.
It's the nature of darkness to swallow seeds, and the nature of wolf to bite.
And nature is not evil or good, it simply is, just as we don't regard the storms or cunami to be evil, the same it's imho wrong to see old gods as good or evil, because they all are metaphors for some dynamic of nature or psyche.

The other gods in other mythologies were and are more elemental, not personal - like Jahve or Allah. They don't think, they act out of their nature in the world that is tragicomical.
 
Avatar said:
We project the idea of good and evil onto older gods and decide who were evil, and who were not based on our nowaday world view and nowaday most popular mythology - the christianity...

The other gods in other mythologies were and are more elemental, not personal - like Jahve or Allah. They don't think, they act out of their nature in the world that is tragicomical.
Click to expand...

I've never considered that point of view before.
Thanks for something to chew on.
 
Is there a link between Loki and Prometheus? Both were chained to rocks as punishment. Although Loki was punished, I believe, for killing Baldur, while Prometheus was the fire thing. And the Pandora thing, which reminds me of Christian 'original sin'. I wonder if there's some kind of gradation between middle eastern, south-eastern European, and northern European myths? (Norns and fates are basically identical . . .)
 
Imho, the link is that they were both thieves and tricked the gods, not that they were chained.
 
Zephyr said:
Is there a link between Loki and Prometheus? Both were chained to rocks as punishment. Although Loki was punished, I believe, for killing Baldur, while Prometheus was the fire thing. And the Pandora thing, which reminds me of Christian 'original sin'. I wonder if there's some kind of gradation between middle eastern, south-eastern European, and northern European myths? (Norns and fates are basically identical . . .)
Click to expand...


To some extent there is ..........
I do understand why you think about Prometheus and Loke as the same .....
they both had Giants as parents ( Loke was born by Jætter and Prometheus had Titans as parents ) .....both was known for creativity, intellect and boldness .....both were punished by the gods with fixating to rocks.......

However normally Loke is compared to Hermes , Loke had shoes with wings like Hermes, Loke could change his appearance and sex (duality in sex)..... Hermes son with Afrodite became hermaphroditic (both male and female)......
Both Hermes and Loke are also known as trickstergods ........Hermes is even the god of thieves ...
 
Last edited:
They both were deceiving gods, but Loki was bound to the stone because of murdering of Balder, and Prometheus for stealing the fire from gods.
Loki had a snake above of his head and poison poured onto him.

Prometheus had other worries. An eagle named Ethon (child of Typhon and Echidna) was eating his liver. As Prometheus' liver grew back each day, the eagle ate it again.

Ah, I'm slow with my answers.
 
Plazma Inferno! said:
They both were deceiving gods, but Loki was bound to the stone because of murdering of Balder, and Prometheus for stealing the fire from gods.
Loki had a snake above of his head and poison poured onto him.

Prometheus had other worries. An eagle named Ethon (child of Typhon and Echidna) was eating his liver. As Prometheus' liver grew back each day, the eagle ate it again.

Ah, I'm slow with my answers.
Click to expand...

Yeah , but at last Prometheus did catch the eagle and ate its liver as revenge ....
 
orcot said:
Loki is recurrent mythological figure in Norse mythology (Eddas)

And is described the blood brother of Odin and seems to be the somewhat evil character in the mythology. Tough he's actions are someone resembling a split personality. He's evil to the end that he's been chained under a mountain until ragnarock, but their also many stories where he's actualy the good guy. And their is many more proof fror his dualty.

But what I wonder is: Are Loki and Odin actualy the same person?

(wow this is the first thread)
Click to expand...

I don't think so; the entire Norse pantheon is a collection of individuals, which is basically how it was meant to be. I mean we can argue Frey and Freya all day (although I think the Havamal is explicit about them being brother and sister, or maybe it's something else by Snorri) but Loki and Odin are definitely different gods. Thor fights Loki, even. I think Loki is just basically a prick; he fights for the gods one day, another day against them. He comes out on top at Ragnarok of course, however briefly, so I suppose you have to give props to that.
 
It's mentioned that loki has 2 brothers both of them where puns on the name odin.
He also has his part in creation because he made the rainbowbridge between asgard and midgard. He was also responsible for the making of thor's hamer and the draupnir ring And it was him who gaved odin he's 6 legged hors Sleipnir.
 
Loke is the son of the male Jætte (giant) named Farbaute and the female Jætte (giant) named Laufey ...... he has 2 brothers :
Byleist, who is son of Farbaute and Laufey ......
and Helblinde = Odin, with whom he is only forstbrødrelag (bloodbrother) , they mixed blood together in the ritual ........
 
this is going a little bid to much in debt and I only started this thread because of some conversation with a norse mythology "freak" but I remember hearing that one of the brothers was indeed a direct reference to Odin while the other one has a brother named Loki giving him some sort of hierarchy above Loki so likly Odin... I think I'm going to risk asking her to explain herself again.
 
What is interesting is that we already could derive two more subjects from this thread: "Duality of deities" and "Origin of the devil".

Ah, marvelous brainstorm! :)
 
Which devil? Several mythologies have devils in it. Chinese have their blue and green devils playing flutes, the Balts have a native devil usually dwelling under a bog as well. Christians have their devil, which is based on the semitic spirits, as well as, imho, on Dionysus and Pan.

Any way, if I remember correctly from one lecture by Joseph Campbell when he was talking regarding Christianity's relation to Greek or Hellenic mythology,
that all that a christian devil is [broadly], is a repressed (hellenic) demon, one which has not be given his due, and because of that it turns violent and acts against the human. Giving due means for one to not repress his own dynamic nature, but let it go from time to time, as if to vent it through dances, orgies, singing and acting out of ones nature.

Any way, this is offtopic and meant for the devil discussion. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top