The Bible

[Photizo]

Has anyone here read the bible (or large parts of it)?
If so, what were you reading it for? How did you approach the reading (ie, as a Christian, atheist, historian, scholar, etc)? What did you think of it?

I bought the New Revised Standard Version for a class about the history of ancient Israel. We're studying the history of the Israelites through readings of the Old Testament (as well as reading some old Caananite & Sumerian texts). Even as an atheist, I can say it's really quite a wonderful collection of stories. I especially enjoyed the part where Abraham gave away his 80 or 90 year old wife to the local warlord, because he wanted to sleep with her, and Abraham wanted more sheep.

Truly, the father of the Abrahamic faiths is a paragorn of virtue.

Seriously, how can anyone with any ability to read critically interpret the god of the Old Testament as all powerful, all knowing, and good and just? The damn thing is so full of anachronism and contradiciton, it must take a very dedicated (and braindead) mind to read such interpretations as literal truth AND claim that god is omni-everything.

Hell, there isn't even that claim made in the Old Testament, that God is all powerful. Very powerful, yes, but the LORD has to bargain (!) with Abram, a mere mortal!

“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."--Fitzgerald, F. S. (1945). The Crack-up. New York: New Directions Publishing.

"An educated person has the ability to appreciate, learn from, and embrace contradiction, even when we might prefer closure. To perceive and tolerate ambiguity is a necessary precondition for advanced reasoning, whether about texts, visual objects, laboratory findings, observations about the world around us, or public policy."--Peter Salovey

 

[Roman]

Abraham was not God. He was a human being and like all human beings he was faulty. God never approved of the thing done by Abraham and saw to it that the warlord did not have sex with Sarah. In the end Sarah was restored to Abraham and the warlord was not harmed.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What of Pharoah? He definitely was pounding some Hebrew ass.
I don't really understand how God could rain fire on these guys, and kill these dudes because they were 'wicked', and bless Abram, even after the shit he pulled.

I guess god plays favorites. So much for a moral or ethical god.

Then I would suggest that you quit reading it. When a book no longer interests you, I don't see why you continue to read it.

I suggest you learn to comprehend what you read.

I read "Revenge of the Swamp Monster from the Black Lagoon" and didn't really like all of it, but it was fun to read. But I didn't come here and make a post just to criticize others who might have enjoyed the book.

Baron Max

I care because...?

Abimelech responds that he is innocent and god's like "ahh, yeah uhh" and lets him off...

You know, in Genesis, God never appears as all knowing, all powerful. He makes mistakes. He contradicts himself (look at all the promises God made to Abraham... sheesh).

He lacks a lot of the atributes people like Adstar try to attribute him. Adstar has a preconcieved notion of what God is, aso when he reads the Hebrew bible, he goes through and tries to explain away all the inconsistency using modern Christian assumptions, based on Greek ideals. Of course, this is completely out of context for the bronze and iron age culture of the middle east.

Roman, you're reading the version specifically geared for special ed.

Fixed.


But do explain.

“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."--Fitzgerald, F. S. (1945). The Crack-up. New York: New Directions Publishing.

"An educated person has the ability to appreciate, learn from, and embrace contradiction, even when we might prefer closure. To perceive and tolerate ambiguity is a necessary precondition for advanced reasoning, whether about texts, visual objects, laboratory findings, observations about the world around us, or public policy."--Peter Salovey

But can you say it in your own words?

 

[Adstar]

What of Pharoah? He definitely was pounding some Hebrew ass.

What incident are you talking about here? You mean the Pharoah who was benefiting from having Hebrew slaves? Or another one?

I don't really understand how God could rain fire on these guys, and kill these dudes because they were 'wicked', and bless Abram, even after the shit he pulled.

Rain fire on whom? The people of sodom? What incident are you referring to?

I guess god plays favorites. So much for a moral or ethical god.

Yes God forgives the many transgressions of those who listen to Him. And shows wrath for the transgressions of those who do not. Yes He does play favourites in a way. But His favouritism is available to all men if they are willing to listen.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

Yes He does play favourites in a way. But His favouritism is available to all men if they are willing to listen.

From an OT perspective, he certainly did play favourites. He annihilates the Egyptians for keeping jews as slaves but then allows the jews to have slaves. He commands his jews to go conquer and kill others but then has issue when anyone else does it.

Admittedly most gods are like that.. I guess they all sat down up in the cosmos and did a vote on which god would own which peoples.

 

[Roman]

What incident are you talking about here? You mean the Pharoah who was benefiting from having Hebrew slaves? Or another one?

Abe's babe.
His seventy? year old honey.

[edit]

Alright, more like 50. Still, gross.

 

[Roman]

Admittedly most gods are like that.. I guess they all sat down up in the cosmos and did a vote on which god would own which peoples.

Actually, I think that's in the bible.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Alright, more like 50. Still, gross.

*************
M*W: I beg your pardon???

 

[Adstar]

From an OT perspective, he certainly did play favourites. He annihilates the Egyptians for keeping jews as slaves but then allows the jews to have slaves. He commands his jews to go conquer and kill others but then has issue when anyone else does it.

Admittedly most gods are like that.. I guess they all sat down up in the cosmos and did a vote on which god would own which peoples.

And what ended up happening to the Jews? Firstly most of the tribes where defeated and scattered and only a small state survived until the Babylonians wiped them out and carried the remnant to be slaves, and the when they gain their freedom they soon found themselves living under the yoke of the roman empire and once again they are nearly annihilated and the remnant scattered over the face of the earth. You may well say that they where chosen. but chosen for what? Maybe God chose them to make an example of them.

That reminds me of the movie i one saw called fiddler on the roof. There was a scene where a Russian Jew was looking up to God knowing that persecution was about to come from the Russian authorities. He said melancholically "God i know we are the chosen people but could you choose someone else this time" LOL

Oh and He did not annihilate the Egyptians.

Annihilate: To destroy completely: To reduce to nonexistence.

I think you will find that the Egyptian race survived the encounter.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[SnakeLord]

And what ended up happening to the Jews?

Well, they still exist if that's what you're asking? They got a country of their own, more nukes than most people and don't actually seem to lose wars. Sorry, what else was there?

Firstly most of the tribes where defeated and scattered and only a small state survived until the Babylonians wiped them out and carried the remnant to be slaves, and the when they gain their freedom they soon found themselves living under the yoke of the roman empire and once again they are nearly annihilated and the remnant scattered over the face of the earth.

That has always been the burden of the religious. Martyrdom is a religious thing.. there was even a time when you christians were being literally fed to the lions. Now of course christians are all over the place, as are jews, (in lesser numbers). Of course it's worth noting that jews don't knock on your door trying to sell you their religion whereas the christians have done everything they can to make those numbers whereas the jews simply don't care.

You may well say that they where chosen. but chosen for what? Maybe God chose them to make an example of them.

Perhaps. That would certainly explain why he killed his own son, (a jew).

Oh and He did not annihilate the Egyptians.

Annihilate: To destroy completely: To reduce to nonexistence.

I think you will find that the Egyptian race survived the encounter

Well, we can debate semantics all day long if you want. I would have thought you knew exactly what I was saying, but I guess I give you more credit than you deserve.

Oh, and to debate semantics...

annihilate

verb
kill in large numbers

Anything else?

 

[Adstar]

No nothing else.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Dave Lush]

I never thought the bible was worth reading, which was why I was astounded to discover that Jesus prophecies exactly what happens to Jeruselum, in perfect detail, about 40 years before the fact.

I wonder why I wasn't taught this in Sunday school? Could it be because it indicates that the Second Coming already happened, 1940 years ago?

Turns out it's not so hard to make accurate prophecies when you write them after the fact.

 

[w1z4rd]

I never thought the bible was worth reading, which was why I was astounded to discover that Jesus prophecies exactly what happens to Jeruselum, in perfect detail, about 40 years before the fact.

I wonder why I wasn't taught this in Sunday school? Could it be because it indicates that the Second Coming already happened, 1940 years ago?

Turns out it's not so hard to make accurate prophecies when you write them after the fact.

How do you know he does this? *curious*

 

[Dave Lush]

It is accepted history that the Romans (Vespasian and Titus) encircled Jeruselum and took the Temple entirely down. Jesus prophecies that there will be no stone upon another, or similar wording.

I found this out reading Joseph Atwill's book, Caesar's Messiah, but I checked it out, thanks to the Gideons, and it's true.