RESPECT ?!?!
But first lets get to Jeremy , because he asks critical and interesting questions :
Do you Muslims read only the crumbling, original, centuries old manuscript? or modern versions of it. Even word for word transcription, it is not the same. The way a text is written, bold text, small text....it does have an effect on the meaning. Right? Right?
Lets see what our SIS has to say about this :
Yes, our original manuscript is intact and is saved in Turkey. Every arabic copy you see today is an exact to the letter and pronounciation copy of the original text. People all over the world memorize the Quran and if recited correctly, we would make awesome harmony without skipping a beat.
How true , but she seems to leave some things out of it . One of them is , that few of the 1.2B Muslims actually knows Arabic , and got stuck with some Pickthal or whatever translation , who FLORES herself obviously doesnt consider problematic since she quotes from it non-stop claiming representation of Qu'ran .
Which brings me to this original version of Islam , that can be so wonderfully memorized and recited by all the head-nodders :
An example is :
This is Qu'ran in its original writing , there's just one problem . Its nice to have something , but what if you cant read it ? The incapability to read Qu'ranic Arabic deals with much more than just part 2 , Arabic . Do you notice all the symbols surrounding the Arabic letters ? Well their wonderfull Idea of understanding is that it deals with pronounciation , you know it helps create this wonderfull harmony FLORES is talking about . There's just one problem , thats all they know about it . Are they aware of the semantical consequences of this special pronounciation technique ? Not one bit , so what the hell are they reading then ?
Only God knows ......
This reminds me of a Christian who told me once :
I dont need knowledge of the Bible to be saved by Jesus Christ
You just gotta love these peoples .
You should know Qu'ran has been about the first serious literary Arabic work , it is so original that its about the creation of the Arabic letter-system , so are we putting down more than half of the symbols (some actually belong to letters , so not all) used in the Qu'ran as pronounciation without a meaning ? Thats just disrespecting the book , and when you disrespect what you call the word of God you are being one damn big hypocrite .
Jeremy , do check
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23090&pagenumber=3 (entire thread actually) , it deals with these questions , questions that FLORES things she stands above , she doesnt need to know or answer , just nodding heads would do the trick right SIS ?
Respect right ? I am disrespectfull for a smiley , and then you come with this bullpoo emotional outburst of yours ? You need to go see a SHRINK SIS . Because Im not a reality denyer nor represser like yourself , Id love to comment on your cries of stupidity .
The reason I speak to you in Arabic is because you challenged me disrespectfully under your other post to show you my translation methods and to translate verses of the Quran. As if you doubt my abilities without even knowing anything. Now how can you be a judge of my knowledge while you don't know the language yourself? And why would I be the stupid idiot to subject myself to your judgements. For that reason, I felt it's a waste of time to converse with you on arabic translations issues, since it would be a one sided objective, one sided emotional and subjective debate.
First of all ,
EMOTIONAL would be on your side not mine , dont make me quote all things you yourself mention about your emotional incapabilities , please .....it would be humiliating . Please be aware what position you hold here on this issue . Dont deny yourself Al Haq .
Now , for your bullshit , did you translate that all by yourself ? I dont think so , you used Pickthal or whatever , so first you need to understand that it wasnt your UNEXISTING translation that was criticized , but another's . No I dont know Arabic , and perhaps that is what would help me keeping away from emotional-cultural ties peoples get stuck in , Im from a ulti-linguag family and if I see how they all translate their bullpoo into some other crap , their knowledge of Arabic is totally irellevant , and so is yours OBVIOUSLY . The translation of one verse specifically that I happen to actually KNOW and UNDERSTAND in Arabic , you totally fucked up . But you dont care to answer , because its all argue argue argue with you , while Im not looking for an argument . Im looking for the ritght understanding of Qu'ran , and You're not .
Must I repeat ? Fine then :
You are telling me to explain :
[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.
So I tell you that :
ALLAHU AHAD,
ALLAHU SAMED,
LAMYALID & LAMYULAD
LAMYAKUN LAHU QUFUWAN AHAD
What you say is totally mistranslated first of all .
Allahu Ahad doesnt mean : He , Allah , is One .
It means : Allah is One (Ultimate Whole) . Where do you see 4 words ? I only see ALLAH + HU + AHAD . What HE ? Where HE ? HU=HE ?
Allah HE One ? At least that would be logical , so even by your OBVIOUS understanding the translation is incorrect .
The *One* of Ahad deals with the quality of One-ness , not with ONE specific object omongst OTHER .
Allahu Samed doesnt mean : Allah is He on Whom all depend.
Now all of a sudden we need IS between Allah and He ? Where's Whom ?
Anyways , only thing sayng here is Allah=Samed . And Samed =
"That which has no gap, which is in perfect condition, is whole without holes and is impermeable; that which admits nothing in, nothing out". It means "solid," same as in that when we say "solid gold". In other words, mere, pure, the absolute! (Ahmad Hulussi)
Being ''SAMED'' states that Allah is not in need of anything for Allah's self .
So lets proceed : LAMYALID & LAMYULAD
Doesnt mean : He begets not, nor is He begotten. No the HE is the problem once again ....... oh they can help it I know , its just how King James works as well ...... he this he that ....
Oh well ....
Anyways : HU DID NOT BEGET , HU WAS NOT BEGOTTEN
But then the real beauty :
LAMYAKUN LAHU QUFUWAN AHAD
And none is like Him. ?
LMFAO
Im not even getting into this one , even a non-Arabic speaking person can see the totally fallascious way to translate this . I wish I knew the proper way , I dont . Ive seen possibilities :
Ahmad Hulussi proposes :
There is not an existence of another being after HU's macro or micro likeness; HU is matchless, peerless and is AHAD."
I dont agree , he makes the same over-translative error , he does point out to the following Ayaat :
"LAYSA KAMISLIHII SHAY'A" (42:11) meaning, "neither in macro nor in micro plan, there is nothing to be compared with HU."
One thing I do know , even those damn obvious Arabic words are totally misunderstood , what about the pronounciation signs ? Damn i keep forgetting how they are called . In the end you know SHIT and so do I , the difference is I am willing to admit and learn , while you go with your literal understanding of mistranslations and simple guesses ....
Why not take this literary as well :
He who is scalded by the soup blows on the yogurt.
Go blow on your yoghurt
They said to the mule, ''Who is your father?'' He said, ''The horse is my uncle.''
Go talk to a muel
If you cannot be a lighthouse, at least be a candle.
Yes go set yourself on fire
This doesnt go for just Muslims , Ive asked this many peoples before , why do you think literal understanding is
a)correct understanding
b)your Gods literal understanding
But Im getting off topic , anyways ........
And the there's the Alif Lam Mim etc etc , and all the numerology ........ can you get off your "I know Islam"-throne and admit you know shit ?
I'm sick and tired of you calling the muslims pagans and worshiping a diety, a matter that you have no knowledge of, and generalizing, and mocking me with your unhearty labeling me as your sister.
The fact that you dont except Ummah to be ONE is your problem not mine , I told you you're still SIS weither you like it or not , deal with it . But what you need to deal with also is this mix-up of things you seem to be having fun making . It is YOU who called me Pagan and Atheist PLENTY times , while Im not judging Muslims for who they are as Muslims . But i do point out that it is YOU who are the one having deity's , not me .
And yes I do have knowledge of what you worship , Im not a damn idiot .....dont think you're such a mystery SIS .
A word for word translation for what I said in arabic.
Well thats not a word-for-word translation but Ok ......
I'm not your sister and you are not my brother.
lol
I'm not fond of your political or religious veiws
And Im not fond of your psychology nor your sociologic ties that have lead to your political & religious views . PS , why bring in Politics ...because you really need to show how much you cant stand me beyond this whole damn discussion we're having ? lol , you're so funny .
You only seek to mock me, and have no knowledge of the contents of my heart and my head.
I mock those who seek to insult me , I have been very very very friendly to you , when I have said something regrettable I have appologized multiple times , dont turn things around here SIS .
What are you , history-revisionist ? Well you're doing a bad job if you are .....
Religion belongs to Allah and you have no right to judge others with what god have not given you any permission to interfere in (human judgement).
if it belongs to Allah then how come you seem to have all thise "knowledge" about it , all these "opinions" about it ? You steel it from Allah ? You thief . I dont have the right to do so , I also dont have the right NOT to do so , I also DONT need any permission to interfere in any judgement . Who do you think you are that you can have YOUR God judging me what to do ? Your God you can stick right up your ASS SIS , maybe you'll gain sudden Wahy ....... or at least some Ilham .
If god didn't bother to protect the correct version of the bible, then why do we bother defending what might be a wrong book so much.
If God didnt bother to tell people what the hell his WORD means , then why WRITE IT ?
The multiple copies and versions of the bible together with the hundreds of individual christian believes is a clear sign from god for all those that are brave enough to look.
Brave ? LOL . Get your telescope ready SIS , lets LOOK .