The Bhagwad Gita on duty and action

[S.A.M.]

In an objective sense it does make sense, although I can't imagine you would be alright with a soldier that killed innocent civilians by order of his superior and uses the Gita as his excuse. In my opinion there is always moral responsibility, no matter what you do or under who's order you do it.

You assume that the prescribed duty of a soldier is to kill civilians.

The BG on the duty of a soldier:

“Valour, glory, firmness, skill, generosity, steadiness in battle and ability to rule - these constitute the duty of a soldier. They flow from his own nature.”

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

“Valour, glory, firmness, skill, generosity, steadiness in battle and ability to rule - these constitute the duty of a soldier. They flow from his own nature.”

Inspirational and motivational, a soldier needs something to enable the killing of innocents. Plus it sounds more like 'leave a nice corpse' in case you don't make it, if you're going to be killed at least be a man about it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Inspirational and motivational, a soldier needs something to enable the killing of innocents. Plus it sounds more like 'leave a nice corpse' in case you don't make it, if you're going to be killed at least be a man about it.

Only if being a soldier means dropping bombs on schools and weddings from far off heights where you are safe from reprisal and accountability. In the Bhagwad gita is means face to face combat with the one who denied you your rights. Even if it is your own brother.

 

[parmalee]

The concept of duty—dispassionate, proper actions whose performance is its own reward—is becoming increasingly foreign to modern society.

I think it's fair to question from whence this notion of duty originates. Duty to whom? Why? Must the notion of duty be a basis for a morality?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Only if being a soldier means dropping bombs on schools and weddings from far off heights where you are safe from reprisal and accountability. In the Bhagwad gita is means face to face combat with the one who denied you your rights. Even if it is your own brother.

Proximity in battle has nothing to with it. You're talking about killing in an honorable fashion. Perhaps that meant something many years ago but how did Patton put it....'You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.' Not much honor in that.

I know where you're going with this. Honor on the battlefield is an artifact from the past, it belongs in a museum, along with the Gita. Time to get in touch with modern warfare...if you want it then be prepared to be in it. Dying is dying, and that's what happens. The honor of dying for one's country or for glory and adulation is gone. Women, children & innocents have been dying since soldiering began, nothing new. Want it to end? Try peace.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think it's fair to question from whence this notion of duty originates. Duty to whom? Why? Must the notion of duty be a basis for a morality?

Duty is an essential element of Indian ethics. It varies between Dharma and Seva, where dharma is "the way" or the right path and seva is the selfless service that it requires.

Dharma requires a correct understanding of reality as outlined in the dharmasastra, although there are various commentators with enough contradictions to make any interpretation possible

Seva itself is based on the ethics of reciprocity, ie you do something without expectation of reward but hope it adds to your karmic balance.

Proximity in battle has nothing to with it. You're talking about killing in an honorable fashion. Perhaps that meant something many years ago but how did Patton put it....'You win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.' Not much honor in that.

Yeah and Asoka renounced war after he saw what it did to Kalinga. Thats the soldier on our bills and flag

 

[Enmos]

You assume that the prescribed duty of a soldier is to kill civilians.

The BG on the duty of a soldier:

“Valour, glory, firmness, skill, generosity, steadiness in battle and ability to rule - these constitute the duty of a soldier. They flow from his own nature.”

Their duty is to follow orders. That's it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Their duty is to follow orders. That's it.

Not in the kshatriya tradition. The Kshatriya is duty bound to protect his land, its people and livestock like a father and fight according to the rules of war by honorable conduct.

 

[Enmos]

Not in the kshatriya tradition. The Kshatriya is duty bound to protect his land, its people and livestock like a father and fight according to the rules of war by honorable conduct.

Against what ? The threats need to be defined in order to avoid people to interpret stuff as they please.

 

[parmalee]

Duty is an essential element of Indian ethics. It varies between Dharma and Seva, where dharma is "the way" or the right path and seva is the selfless service that it requires.

Dharma requires a correct understanding of reality as outlined in the dharmasastra, although there are various commentators with enough contradictions to make any interpretation possible

Seva itself is based on the ethics of reciprocity, ie you do something without expectation of reward but hope it adds to your karmic balance.

There exist similar such notions in most cultures--whether they be derived from the categorical imperative, "the golden rule," or theistic traditions; but is a notion of duty essential to behave in an "ethical" manner? I think Nietzsche, et al, were right to question Kant's notion of an a priori duty.

One can feel an obligation solely to oneself and still act in a manner which the majority would perceive as moral. And honestly, who doesn't? No matter how altruistic one's actions may appear, they are ultimately undertaken for oneself--and with consideration, it becomes apparent that in fucking over another one eventually fucks over himself.

 

[S.A.M.]

Duty has always been the binding glue of Indian society. We do things even at great personal discomfort because it is the right thing to do. I like this aspect of Indian society because I think one cares more about something when one personally invests in it and I see that areas of the country where this ethos is fading have lost their sense of humanity.

 

[Enmos]

Duty has always been the binding glue of Indian society. We do things even at great personal discomfort because it is the right thing to do. I like this aspect of Indian society because I think one cares more about something when one personally invests in it and I see that areas of the country where this ethos is fading have lost their sense of humanity.

Don't all societies do that though ?

 

[parmalee]

Don't all societies do that though ?

Shame on you, Enmos. You and I both know that humans are the most myopic animals on the planet.

 

[Enmos]

Shame on you, Enmos. You and I both know that humans are the most myopic animals on the planet.

True, but they still do it. Not all, of course.

 

[S.A.M.]

Don't all societies do that though ?

I haven't seen it anywhere to the same extent.

 

[parmalee]

True, but they still do it. Not all, of course.

I think some try, just not very hard.

 

[parmalee]

I haven't seen it anywhere to the same extent.

Actually, I agree with you SAM. I spent six months in India years ago and Indians, irrespective of theistic tradition, do largely behave in such a manner.

Edit: Though I think this common to many Asian cultures.

 

[Enmos]

I haven't seen it anywhere to the same extent.

Well, I obviously can't judge about Indian society. I don't know much of it and I've never been there.
But I see it as much in my country as in any other country I've been to so far.

 

[S.A.M.]

For example, if you were a traveller in India, you could knock on any door and get a meal or a bed because you are a traveler. Or at least be directed to a dharmasala where a meal and a bed would be provided [paid for by the village]. When I was a teenager travelling in India, we used to knock on doors to use bathrooms and were given coconut water and invited to share meals. Poor people used to knock on our doors and ask for a meal and expect to be fed well. If nothing was cooked, we would at least give enough raw rice that he/she could prepare. Nowadays stuff like that is disappearing.

 

[parmalee]

For example, if you were a traveller in India, you could knock on any door and get a meal or a bed because you are a traveler. Or at least be directed to a dharmasala where a meal and a bed would be provided [paid for by the village]. When I was a teenager travelling in India, we used to knock on doors to use bathrooms and were given coconut water and invited to share meals. Nowadays stuff like that is disappearing.

This is true of predominantly Islamic nations as well.