The atheist, the theist, and the agnostic

Are you an atheist, theist, or agnostic?

  • I am a theist, raised from birth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I am agnostic, from an atheist family

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16

Norsefire

Salam Shalom Salom
Registered Senior Member
What logic do each of them follow? What is the mentality of each?

In this thread, it's about a comparison between the three. Who is the most rational?

To compare, I'd say the agnostic is well outside the league of both the atheist and theist. Atheists and theists are opposites on the same pole. In principle, they have little difference.

Agnosticism, on the other hand, you could say is in the middle, and thus does not lean either way
 
Agnosticism to me indicates that god is a 50/50 prospect. Atheism to me means that god is a highly unlikely prospect.

Would that fit your definition also Norsefire?
 
I can't answer the poll. There isn't a category that fits me.

It would be useful to have defined what you think is meant by the three terms?
 
What logic do each of them follow? What is the mentality of each?

The mentality of the theist is doctrine driven. Absolutism. No logic, whatsoever.

In this thread, it's about a comparison between the three. Who is the most rational?

The one who can demonstrate their claims or refuses to accept unsubstantiated claims.

To compare, I'd say the agnostic is well outside the league of both the atheist and theist. Atheists and theists are opposites on the same pole. In principle, they have little difference.

That is as ridiculous as saying one is in the same league as those who believe in alien visitations, unicorns and leprechauns, simply because they don't accept those bizarre claims.

Agnosticism, on the other hand, you could say is in the middle, and thus does not lean either way

Indifference doesn't even count.
 
the poll's way too specific, i'm an atheist with atheist/agnostic parents, but was taught a bit of religion in scripture.

the logic is that religion is too questionable and faith too blind.
 
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The poll seems to imply that if you are raised a theist you cannot be a theist by choice.
If you deprogrammed yourself out of theism, and then chose to return then perhaps, you could be raised theist and chose theism, but once you leave theism you don't return, it's just not possible without a serious trauma in your life or a blow to the head.
Children are indoctrinated into religion, they don't get a choice in the matter, else Muslim children would not all become Muslims or Christian children would not all become Christians.
 
Seems like to be an Atheist is a way of rebelling, if not against parents then against society, government. Another thing i notice is that children (teens) these days seem to think declaring oneself Atheist raises their IQ. Well just be reading on the net you can see there is no truth to this, i think it is pretty funny though.

The thing is a person has to make a conscious effort to be an Atheist because humans have the desire to believe. It can leave, it can change but it usually comes back.

I really think that to be born an Atheist is just not possible, normally we would all be Agnostic. Seems very obvious to me.

I could not vote either because my mom was Agnostic, as fAR AS i could tell.
 
I don't think you can force yourself to become an atheist or agnostic. It's just something that happens. You can't make yourself believe in something. At least I couldn't I tried so hard to believe in God and the Bible once I started to question my faith. I constantly chastised myself for questioning my faith, but once my faith was gone it was just gone I couldn't make it come back. Even though I wanted it to. And I felt empty for so long, until I came to terms with it. I didn't do it to rebel against societal norms, but maybe I will return to Christianity some day. I doubt it though.
 
Seems like to be an Atheist is a way of rebelling, if not against parents then against society, government. Another thing i notice is that children (teens) these days seem to think declaring oneself Atheist raises their IQ. Well just be reading on the net you can see there is no truth to this, i think it is pretty funny though.

Rebelling? I can remember my first atheist thoughts. They were far from rebellious as I wanted to keep them to myself because it appeared that all of my elders persisted in saying that god existed, but deep down I kept asking myself how they could possibly know. That was a thought I most certainly didn't want to share coming from a catholic upbringing where guilt is enforced.

So it was only a matter of becoming more vocal on the matter, but not so much due to 'rebellion', just sheer exasperation. As you grow older you hear more stories, see more things on the news, talk to more religious people who live their life so bold based upon baseless fantasy. Call it rebellion if you wish, but I just want society to be a little smarter than that.

As for the IQ thing... I would wager that atheists in general are smarter statistically.

The thing is a person has to make a conscious effort to be an Atheist because humans have the desire to believe. It can leave, it can change but it usually comes back.

No no no. My first atheist thoughts were at an age were I could not have forced the issue. The easiest path in fact would be for me to have followed the flock as I was at such an impressionable age. But I veered away from it without actually meaning to.

With it being a conscious effort only comes down to how vocal you are about it. It is the same if you are consciously vocal about religion. Most people are just in the middle of the road not caring either way.
 
So then you should be able to see that being an Atheist is not reasonable. Which is why i see it as more rebellious and when people rebel they become really, really annoying. Not on a forum but in real life i can see where militant Atheists must be almost unbearable. Just like an ex smoker or ex alcoholic preaching to someone who has a beer just because they cannot have just one.

Call it rebellion if you wish, but I just want society to be a little smarter than that.

I dont think that you are an Atheist. As a matter of fact it was I who first brought up that "Atheism does not exist". Tbh, i do not believe that Atheism can exist, forget about organized religion and you will see that faith comes from hope...it comes from thinking positively. How can you say that insisting on something you cannot verify is smart?

As for the IQ thing... I would wager that atheists in general are smarter statistically.

No evidence supports this. As a matter of fact belief in a higher power has given our civilization some of it's greatest advancements. Science, art, literature, music etc. As for myself, i can become obsessed with superficial things but i never saw myself having any religious obsessions.
 
I don't think you can force yourself to become an atheist or agnostic. It's just something that happens. You can't make yourself believe in something. At least I couldn't I tried so hard to believe in God and the Bible once I started to question my faith. I constantly chastised myself for questioning my faith, but once my faith was gone it was just gone I couldn't make it come back. Even though I wanted it to. And I felt empty for so long, until I came to terms with it. I didn't do it to rebel against societal norms, but maybe I will return to Christianity some day. I doubt it though.

Your experience is similar to that of many atheists. They do not believe because they cannot believe. They question received wisdom and find there is nothing to back up what they are told. They then have the courage to strike out on their own and leave the safety of the flock behind.

My instincts tell me you will not go back to the Church. You have called them out and found them wanting.That will not change. Once you realize the emperor has no clothes, the game is up.
 
So then you should be able to see that being an Atheist is not reasonable. Which is why i see it as more rebellious and when people rebel they become really, really annoying.

With this way of thinking, you will next say that gay people are gay only to be rebellious. That's just rubbish.

You have to remember that although people generally follow their upbringing with regard to supernatural beliefs, they are STILL supernatural (ie. non existant), so you can't expect it to have 100% success, even though the majority of people do not give it any thought and take it as a given. If you believe it, or don't believe it you simply can't help it. The only part of it that is forced is how vocal you are about it. What don't you understand about that? Atheism in itself is not rebellious, but it's certainly possible to be a rebellious atheist.

Not on a forum but in real life i can see where militant Atheists must be almost unbearable. Just like an ex smoker or ex alcoholic preaching to someone who has a beer just because they cannot have just one.

I can see why atheists might annoy you. Perhaps then you can understand how atheists might be annoyed by evangelical religious dolts that dominate most societies.

I dont think that you are an Atheist. As a matter of fact it was I who first brought up that "Atheism does not exist".

That depends on how to define it. I don't say that god doesn't exist, I say the chances of god existing are on a par with any other thing I could conjure in my imagination. Does that make me agnostic in your view?

I could also say that I don't think people are genuinely religious. I honestly don't believe that theists believe in a FLYING ZOMBIE. I think they are maybe just intellectually lazy.

Tbh, i do not believe that Atheism can exist, forget about organized religion and you will see that faith comes from hope...it comes from thinking positively.

Now you're doing that thing theists do in getting really vague with language. Atheism relates merely to the concept of a god, not aspects of emotion which all humans have. It sounds like you're talking shit here.

How can you say that insisting on something you cannot verify is smart?

It's smart to be skeptical on something people pulled out of their asses.

No evidence supports this.

Of course there is. Would you say the Bible Belt part of America is smarter than those states on the outskirts? I think the answer to that is obvious.

As a matter of fact belief in a higher power has given our civilization some of it's greatest advancements. Science, art, literature, music etc.

This is one of the biggest lies put forward by religious people.

If such artistic or musical people had no belief in a "higher power" they would and do retain their skills. Just because they were religious people does not mean their achievements were made possible only by their belief in a "higher power". If Isaac Newton didn't waste his time on alchemey and trying to prove the bible as literal truth, perhaps he would have been an even better scientist. It's also worth noting that most top scientists are atheist/non-religious in this day and age.

If alcoholics anonymous in the US requires belief in a "higher power" on the road to recovery and alcoholics anonymous in the UK requiring no such belief, how come the AA in the UK can still rid people of their addiction without having the "higher power" in any of its steps?
 
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To compare, I'd say the agnostic is well outside the league of both the atheist and theist. Atheists and theists are opposites on the same pole. In principle, they have little difference.
Hi Norsefire,
How would you compare theism, agnosticism, and atheism to their parallels regarding kids learning th "truth" about Santa?

There are three children in the playground... one believes Santa is real, one isn't sure, and the third says there is no Santa.
Is there a difference in principle between the positions of the first child and the third?
 
I could also say that I don't think people are genuinely religious. I honestly don't believe that theists believe in a FLYING ZOMBIE. I think they are maybe just intellectually lazy.

You presume to speak for my beliefs? I think all atheists lack the element of human beings that results in faith.
 
You presume to speak for my beliefs? I think all atheists lack the element of human beings that results in faith.
Hi Sam!

I think that people can't function without faith of some kind.
I have faith that you will read this message, that the Sun will rise tomorrow, that the organization holding my savings will last until my retirement...

Most fundamentally, everyone has faith that the past is generally a guide to the future (ie that the principle of induction has some merit.) It is simply not possible to function without that particular article of faith.
 
Hi Sam!

I think that people can't function without faith of some kind.
I have faith that you will read this message, that the Sun will rise tomorrow, that the organization holding my savings will last until my retirement...

Most fundamentally, everyone has faith that the past is generally a guide to the future (ie that the principle of induction has some merit.) It is simply not possible to function without that particular article of faith.

Yes, I wonder how those who refuse to believe manage at all.
 
Everyone refuses to believe in some things, Sam, just as nobody refuses all belief.
 
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