Taking Things Literally

[Cellar_Door]

Ok so we seem to be establishing an answer here (although what follows is mostly from (Q))
- what has been communicated down to earth is exactly as God intended. Ergo, if you disobey any part of the Bible then you are rejecting God's word. Moreover, those who do so have no basis for calling themselves 'Christians' as they show disregard for parts of the Bible. To put it simply: take it in its entirety, or leave it.

That is to say - perfection is obviously not required; we can be forgiven for our sins and still be good Christian people. But to make violence or dishonesty (for example )a part of your lifestyle would be a different matter altogether.

 

[Lori_7]

"good Christian people"...

eh...that made me cringe just now.

 

[Lori_7]

everyone is violent and dishonest.

 

[greenberg]

everyone is violent and dishonest.

... among many other things they also are.

 

[rjr6]

Why does Christianity offer exactly the same options as a light switch?



So what? I can murder thousands, millions of innocent people, make the same statement as the one above on my deathbed, and *poof* I'm in heaven. Seems anyone can get in to heaven no matter what they did, and they can completely ignore the word of god and his command to obey him with no consequences whatsoever.

:bugeye:

Innocent of what? Only God knows another's heart (ie: true self).

 

[Lori_7]

... among many other things they also are.

yes sir. i don't like it when christians judge (against doctrine), or try to think they're "good" (contrary to scripture), or better than another person because they follow certain rules or exhibit or don't exhibit certain behaviors. just the other day i had one of my myspace friends comment on one of my pics where i'm wearing my favorite hoodie that says "jesus rocks" on it. for the caption i wrote "jesus...he fucking rocks". the comment left was something like, "yeah jesus does rock, but don't use the f word please." typical christian tight-ass.

 

[Cellar_Door]

Innocent of what? Only God knows another's heart (ie: true self).

Thus all theocracies are fatally flawed.

However, it's hard to disagree with even a pretentious and ridiculous statement like yours without getting into the whole 'God isn't real' argument. So I'll simply ask you: should all judgement and punishment be left to 'higher forces'?

 

[Lori_7]

there's something to be said here for defending yourself and being sincere. when hearts and the truth are applied, as opposed to egos and their lies, it all becomes crystal clear.

 

[Lori_7]

so i questioned dude's intentions regarding trying to tell me how to talk, and he deleted me as a friend. heh, heh, heh. you gotta love those christians...

 

[rjr6]

Thus all theocracies are fatally flawed.

However, it's hard to disagree with even a pretentious and ridiculous statement like yours without getting into the whole 'God isn't real' argument. So I'll simply ask you: should all judgement and punishment be left to 'higher forces'?

No.

 

[synthesizer-patel]

if you consider what god is supposed to be, then wouldn't it be silly to think that human imperfection could thwart his efforts? if his efforts were to communicate a message and he is omnipotent and omniscient, then he could consider and allow for any human errors, or malintent regarding the transmission of that message.

Very well put - proof that god does not exist - or at least does not exist as an omnipotent and omniscient being

 

[Lori_7]

Very well put - proof that god does not exist - or at least does not exist as an omnipotent and omniscient being

he is accomplishing his purpose all around you. i've gotten that message loud and clear. as i speak from personal experience, i'm the only thing that's ever gotten in the way of his communication with me. the bible's message is clear.

 

[Cellar_Door]

No.

So others apart from God can judge you; they can condemn you in the eyes of the law, of your peers, of your family and of society as a whole.

 

[rjr6]

So others apart from God can judge you; they can condemn you in the eyes of the law, of your peers, of your family and of society as a whole.

Yes.

 

[rjr6]

Why does Christianity offer exactly the same options as a light switch?



So what? I can murder thousands, millions of innocent people, make the same statement as the one above on my deathbed, and *poof* I'm in heaven. Seems anyone can get in to heaven no matter what they did, and they can completely ignore the word of god and his command to obey him with no consequences whatsoever.

:bugeye:

Innocent of what? Only God knows another's heart (ie: true self).

Thus all theocracies are fatally flawed.

However, it's hard to disagree with even a pretentious and ridiculous statement like yours without getting into the whole 'God isn't real' argument. So I'll simply ask you: should all judgement and punishment be left to 'higher forces'?

No.

So others apart from God can judge you; they can condemn you in the eyes of the law, of your peers, of your family and of society as a whole.

Yes.

Q was questioning the promise of heaven and being with God, and how an apparently "evil" person may enter the kingdom of heaven. This seems contradictory in light of what the Bible preachs, but it is not necessarily so. It is very hard to grasp, ageed, but our place in this world as human's is not to judge one another in try to figure out if they are going heaven. As humans we do not have enough information to make an informed decision as to disposistion of someone else's eternal soul. Defending yourself from violence and having a rule of conduct, or law, for a society seems prudent as well.
Somewhere in the Bible it states that goods deeds alone wont get you into to heaven, so that does offer food for thought.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

The breath you have wasted during typing that response is no different to the despicable amounts of perfectly good air you consistently waste everyday. Plus, Darwinism is not a religion - you would do well to note the fundamental differences between respect and dogma.

The ten commandments are actually the 'word of God', being the words he spoke to Moses, unlike the majority of the Bible as you have pointed out. Therefore, surely it is blasphemous to follow some of them but discount the others? How can a Christian trust anything written in the Bible at all if they must first admit to the many gaping inaccuracies?

Now to go back to the original point: I fail to see how, for example, a number of rappers can call themselves Christians with huge guns sticking out of their trousers and lyrics rife with swear words and references to fucking their 'bitches'. Did Jesus not speak out openly against violence and the oppression of women? All I'm asking is, at what point does someone fail to live up to the name of a true Christian?

<sigh> Ok. The ten commandments were condensed by JC. I refer to the "most important" commandment question asked of him. Also, consider that Micah said,"The lord has showed you what is right, and what does he want of you? But to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God." This suggests that the Ten Commandments were secondary to trying to have a close relationship with God.

To the original point: The question is for God to answer, not us mortals. "Judge not lest ye be judged" Whatever hoop I expect someone else to jump through to be a christian, I must demand of myself. Lyrics are just words, guns are no more than a fashion item for some. There are no words against weapons, and Paul thought fairly lowly of women. I reject Paul's suggestion about "head coverings" and sift through the rest looking for Gold.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

rjr6-just a note, correct me if I am wrong. You are NOT saying that the societal judgement decides the heavenly judgement. A serial pedophile rapist and capital murderer who repents and asks JC into his life on death row, is accepted by God as readily as the kindly priest who fulfills God's word to the letter, whose only sin is pride.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

so i questioned dude's intentions regarding trying to tell me how to talk, and he deleted me as a friend. heh, heh, heh. you gotta love those christians...

Jesus does fucking rock. Bear in mind that all christians are imperfect. Don't judge him for his silliness. Pray for him that he will be relieved of such a weight as literary sin.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

CD-better? Those links in the other thread are hilarious, BTW. I hope you looked at them.

 

[(Q)]

<sigh> Ok. The ten commandments were condensed by JC. I refer to the "most important" commandment question asked of him. Also, consider that Micah said,"The lord has showed you what is right, and what does he want of you? But to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God." This suggests that the Ten Commandments were secondary to trying to have a close relationship with God.

To the original point: The question is for God to answer, not us mortals. "Judge not lest ye be judged" Whatever hoop I expect someone else to jump through to be a christian, I must demand of myself. Lyrics are just words, guns are no more than a fashion item for some. There are no words against weapons, and Paul thought fairly lowly of women. I reject Paul's suggestion about "head coverings" and sift through the rest looking for Gold.

Why the fuck should anyone take your interpretation, sinner? Who the fuck do you think you are, blasphemer? How dare you tell us what you think the bible should say, evil-doer? Begone with your heresies and pray god doesn't strike you down this very moment for your transgressions against him, devil-muncher.