St.Paul: the saint or the lier?

Y

Yazdajerd

Behold... The Bringer of Light
Registered Senior Member
Some thing that really disturbs me with christians is that they claim to be followers of Christ yet they follow Paul!!

Surprisingly enough Paul contradicted Christ in a large number of issues that logically you can't follow both at the same time:

1- Christ said he never came to change the Laws of Moses but to complete them, Paul claims that Christ was dammed on the cross to lift the damnation of the Laws.

2- Christ never made claim to the trinity, but Paul did.

3- Christ said that St.Peter is his rock on which he will build his church, but Paul couldn't help himself claiming that St.Peter lost the true path and that it was up to Paul to bring himback to the group.

And many other points to be mentioned later.... so how come christians call him a saint??
 
1) This is what Christ said, I'm sure you can interpret it for yourself:
Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

2) Christ never made "the claim" to the Trinity? Are you serious?

3) Where is your source for this?

All slaves of Christ are saints. But that's not important...

P.S. Few Christians call Paul saint I'm guessing, I didn't even know he was "officially" a saint..
 
Yazdajerd said:
Some thing that really disturbs me with christians is that they claim to be followers of Christ yet they follow Paul!!
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M*W: First, allow me to say that Yazdajerd is NOT Medicine*Woman and Medicine*Woman is NOT Yazdajerd, but we are definitely of like mind!
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Surprisingly enough Paul contradicted Christ in a large number of issues that logically you can't follow both at the same time:

1- Christ said he never came to change the Laws of Moses but to complete them, Paul claims that Christ was dammed on the cross to lift the damnation of the Laws.

2- Christ never made claim to the trinity, but Paul did.

3- Christ said that St.Peter is his rock on which he will build his church, but Paul couldn't help himself claiming that St.Peter lost the true path and that it was up to Paul to bring himback to the group.

And many other points to be mentioned later.... so how come christians call him a saint??
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M*W: Yaz, this is the same problem I have. It was when I was in Rome visiting The Vatican that I saw more about Paul and Peter and less about Jesus. Jesus seemed to be an after thought in the home of Roman Catholicism, which is what I used to believe. It was as if the truth about Jesus was secondary to the claims about Christianity which were made by Paul. You may look back into the old threads and find threads about Paul being gay, Paul being a liar, Paul the creator of Christianity, and as I've always said, Paul, the Antichrist! Here me now, believe me later.

I always find it sickly amusing that Christians still believe Paul was a saint when Paul never knew Jesus. Isn't that amusing? Paul was a business man. I like to think of Paul being the original circus barker. You may find the book by Hyam Maccoby called The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, a revealing study and well researched book on the shennanagins of Paul. I question why would anyone change their name unless they were trying to hide their true identity or were running from the law? The guys who knew Jesus, Peter, James and John, left no writings behind them telling what Jesus was really like. Christianity is about Paul's second-hand story of a man named Jesus whom he never knew. In fact, Paul took the earlier dying demigod savior stories and gave the main player the name Jesus. Now Jesus was the very common name Yeshua. The Rabbi Jesus' tried to convey spiritual truths about the goodness of God and humankind's role in the greater scheme of God's spiritual matters. Paul, on the other hand, created the myth of Jesus the savior, and Paul self-appointed himself as the only true teacher of Christianity. Yet, these two guys NEVER MET! Let's say that the only thing I know about you is your username, but I go and write a story about the savior, Yaz, who lives somewhere on Earth at the same time as I do, and I've read your posts, and I believe them to be inspired, so I start writing about this interesting character throwing in some ancient history, throwing in some sci-fi, giving names of other people who were known to have lived at the same time for good measure, and voila!, another mythic dying demigod savior on the wall!

There were a lot of things Paul lied about. He was known as a liar in his own day! How do those who call themselves Christians believe in a liar? All of Christianity is one big lie. But, you know, when one generation believes something, even if its a lie, it's passed on to the next generation who believes it's the truth.

You know, it's only been since the 1500s that the printing press was invented. Up to that time, communications were passed through word-of-mouth for umpteen generations, and those generations following the use of the printing press, were able to read and learn more than what they did by word-of-mouth (even though they didn't have such a thing as freedom of the press). The laws were made by the Church, and if people didn't follow those laws, they were executed (see the history of the Inquisition).

Since the time of the first printing press, we now have daily newspapers, libraries, postal services, text books, blah, blah, blah. And now, my friend, we have the Internet! All those millenia of lies can be researched, debated, cross-referenced, printed out, preached about, confronted with, the difference between the truth and the lies.

Interestingly, since the first book (that I'm familiar with), The Passover Plot, by Schofield, rejected the Christian doctrines of the crucifixion, death and resurrection, of Jesus, made modern man and woman stop and take a real look at who founded Christianity -- Paul. Remove Paul's contribution to the myth, and you have no Christianity. Today, there are many well-researched references to the lies of Christianity, and everyone of them point backward to Paul.
 
Right on Medicine Woman. Amazing that they all have missed it or put a blind eye since it will poke a hole in their faith?
 
Do you guys know where can I get sources about Paul being lier?

I just got some books for Laurence Gardner. Anything else?

Some of my friends think I am completely crazy when I suggested that maybe made up Christianity.
 
Was Paul the Founder of Christianity?

Atheists are not known for scholarship. They are mainly reactionaries. For various personal or emotional reasons, they have rejected faith in God. Their disbelief is not the result of careful research and objective evaluation of factual data. But, being unwilling to simply wither away in their own intellectual stagnation, some of them lash out at believers – usually in the most irrational way.

An example of this superficiality is found in a recently published book: In God We Trust: But Which One? (Madison, WI: Freedom From Religion Foundation, 1996). This unsophisticated diatribe is authored by Judith L. Hayes, a California atheist and defunct columnist for Freethought Today.

Ms. Hayes either does not know how to assess historical information, or else she deliberately perverts it. One would rather be charitable and believe that she simply is ignorant of the methods of scholarly research. I do not think she has examined any primary source of information; it is my impression that she merely parrots the baseless allegations of her infidelic predecessors. At any rate, she writes:

“Just whether nor not Jesus was an actual, historical figure is the subject of much scholarly debate. St. Paul, who was the real founder of the religion known as Christianity, barely discussed Jesus as a person, and made no references to his family” (p. 119; emp. WJ).

Let us give brief analysis to these statements.

First, the question of whether Jesus was “an actual, historical figure” is not the subject of “much scholarly debate” today. Only a few obscure atheists are even raising the issue. The presence of Jesus of Nazareth is so firmly rooted in fact that Ernest Renan, a French critic, who was no friend of Christianity, said that “all history is incomprehensible without him” and “to tear his name from this world would be to shake it to its foundations” (pp. 26, 212).

Joseph Klausner, the famous scholar of Hebrew University – who did not believe that Jesus was divine – unhesitatingly argued that Christ lived in the first century, and that He exerted a powerful influence – both then and across the centuries. His book, Jesus of Nazareth marshals a powerful array of evidence for the historicity of Christ (pp. 17-62). Even Steve Allen, who hates Christianity, confessed: “My own belief is that he [Jesus] did indeed live in the time of Augustus Caesar . . .” (p. 229).

Second, let us consider the ludicrous charge that “St. Paul . . . was the real founder” of the Christian system. How interesting it would be to confront Mrs. Hayes face-to-face, and call for the evidence supporting that outlandish statement.

Christianity was launched on the day of Pentecost, fifty days after the death of Jesus (Acts 2). On its first day it consisted of no less than 3,000 people (Acts 2:41). Shortly thereafter, the number had grown to 5,000 men alone (Acts 4:4). Subsequently “believers were the more added to the Lord” (5:14), because the apostles had filled Jerusalem with their teaching (5:28). Every day the message of Christ was being proclaimed (5:42), and the church experienced phenomenal growth on a daily basis (6:7). At this time, as any elementary Bible student knows, Saul of Tarsus (later designated as “Paul”) was still a zealous persecutor of the church. He was one of the principals at the death of Stephen, the first Christian martyr (8:1).

But Christianity already had spread considerably. The gospel had gone throughout Judea and Samaria (8:1). As a result of the conversion of the Ethiopian, the message took root in Africa (8:26ff).

When the student confronts Saul in Acts 9, the fiery Hebrew was making preparation to leave for Damascus (in Syria) in order to extradite Christians; the religion of Jesus had expanded beyond the northern borders of Palestine (9:2-19). The apostle later said that he had persecuted the Christian Way unto foreign cities (Acts 26:11), which is another commentary on how extensively it had flourished. It is the epitome of irresponsibility to allege that Paul was the “founder” of Christianity.

Third, Mrs. Hayes’ statement, that Paul “barely discussed Jesus as a person,” simply is not true. Consider the following points.

1. The physical appearance of Christ, and matters relating to His family, etc., were of no concern to the early advocates of the gospel. Whether the Lord was short, tall, slim, or stocky had no bearing whatever upon the message of human redemption.

In fact, as we have shown elsewhere (see Jackson, pp. 17ff), the very omission of personal minutia – not only by Paul, but by all the New Testament writers – is evidence itself that these men were not writing under ordinary human impulses. They deliberately by-passed those numerous details for which our curiosity clamors. This is an indication they were guided by the Spirit of God, rather than by common instinct.

But Mrs. Hayes, with typical skeptical crudeness, complains that the New Testament does not mention intimate items regarding Christ (e.g., whether or not He urinated, or if He experienced sexual arousal - p. 126). And because the sacred record does not cater to her unusual interests, she faults it, and questions the historicity of Jesus. The reader can judge for himself the value of this objection.

2. In spite of the fact that Paul neglected personal trivialities regarding Jesus, the apostle’s preaching was saturated with the essential data concerning the Son of God. To the saints in Corinth he wrote: “And I, brethren, when I came unto you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified” (1 Cor. 2:1-2).

3. It is only in light of the fact that Paul was consumed with the historical Christ that one can explain the sustained growth of the church under the influence of his teaching. He likely preached from Jerusalem in the east, to Spain in the west (cf. Rom. 15:24). His known travels spanned some 12,000 miles.

4. It is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that Paul only barely discussed the person of the Lord. The apostle alluded to the preincarnate state of Jesus who, though existing in the form of deity, nonetheless emptied Himself of His equality with the Father, and became a human being (Phil. 2:5ff).

Paul noted that Christ was born of woman (Gal. 4:4); that He was of the lineage of Abraham (Gal. 3:16), and of the seed of David (Rom. 1:3). The apostle states that Jesus was sent “in the likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom. 8:3), though He never committed a single personal sin (2 Cor. 5:21).

A sampling of Paul’s epistles will allow any careful, sincere student to see what sort of emphasis the noble apostle gave to the Savior. For example, the name “Jesus” is found no fewer than 221 times in Paul’s thirteen known letters. The designation “Christ” occurs some 406 times, and the apostle refers to Jesus as God’s “Son” approximately 17 times. He alludes to Him as “Savior” about 13 times.

It is thus a distortion of enormous magnitude to suggest that Paul was the real founder of Christianity, and that his attention to Jesus Christ was minimal.

Our skeptical friends would do well to explore the darkness of their souls to determine what sort of psychical abnormality therein exists that so frantically drives them to distort truth.

From: http://www.christiancourier.com/feature/november98.htm
 
Joeman said:
Do you guys know where can I get sources about Paul being lier?

I just got some books for Laurence Gardner. Anything else?

Some of my friends think I am completely crazy when I suggested that maybe made up Christianity.
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Joeman,
Just know this.....When Paul was Saul he was the "Hitler" of those days murdering a persecuting followers of Jesus(pbuh) then he claimed to have met Jesus(pbuh) in a dream and "changed" yet remember that Jesus(pbuh) said:

"Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19



yet paul said:

For as many as are of the works of the Law are Under the Curse" (Gal. 3:10)

"But now we are Delivered form the Law" (Rom 7:6)

In that He said "A new covenant He had mand the first Old. now that which Decayeth and waxeht Old is ready to Vanish Away." (Heb. 8:13)

"And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs." Acts 21:21




'Paul' not only taught men that the commandments are ole, a curse, vanishing, will not deliver, will not justify, etc.., but Also Admits that he himself did not follow the commandments of God but makes up a term called 'commandments of Christ' Which There are No Such Thing According to Jesus Paul admits there is confusion and mystery in the Gospel of Jesus and says that he himself will fill in the blanks;

"And on my behalf, that utterance may be given unto me in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel," Ephesians 6:19

Thus he used his status and wealth to spread his gospel.

'Paul's' inspiration Does Not comes from divine authority

If you consider 'Paul' a Saint, then why does he Admit that the Spirit of Evil is in his body? Also admiting that he is doing Evil and not incontrol of himslef all while writing his gospel.

"If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."

"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me." (Rom 7:16-21

It suprizes me that Christians would take the words of a man who admits he is evil and does not follow the Laws of God and yet, ignore the Teachings of Jesus(pbuh) who was Sent By God.......so in other words if yoy wanna know about Pauls/Sauls lies they are in the bible :) ......peace
 
Dating Saul of Tarsus

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The date of Saul's ["Saint Paul"] conversion, as suggested in the "infallible inerrant Bible" indicates he saw the risen Christ before Jesus even died (maybe it was Satan that Saul of Tarsus really saw, or Odin, or Horrus). Using Acts and Gal together, the following is arrived:
(1) Saul's conversion (Acts 9:3ff, Gal 1:16) -- 31 CE.

(2) 1st visit to Jerusalem (Acts 9:26,Gal 1:18). This was three years after conversion (Gal 1:18) -- 34 CE.

(3) 2nd visit to Jerusalem (Acts l5:2-4, Gal 2:1-10). 14 years after lst Jerusalem visit -- 48 CE.

(4) Saul visits the churches (through Syria and Cilicia to Derbe and Lystra, through Phrygia and Galatia to Troas and Macedonia, through Amphipolis and Apollonia to Thessalonica (3 weeks-Acts 17:2), to Beroea, then Athens and onto Corinth (Acts 15:40-18:1). -- 49 CE. (This is known as "Saul's second missionary journey").

(5) Saul arrives in Corinth (Acts 18:1); after l.5 years (Acts 18:11) he then appears before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaia (Acts 18:12-16) (Saul leaves Corinth in Acts 18:18) -- Summer 51 CE.


NOTES:-

(N1) With regard to (5), an inscription from Delphi includes a letter from the emperor Claudius (41-54 CE) and in this there is a ref to Gallio as proconsul; the date is the 26th acclamation of Claudius and as the 22nd, 23rd and 24th were all made in 52 CE and the 27th was before August 52 CE - the 26th would therefore be in Spring/Summer 52.

The term of office as a proconsul was just one year - beginning in the late Spring or early Summer; therefore as Gallio's time is factually known, the Acts story in chapter 18 can be located in Spring/Summer 51 or 52 - most likely 51. Therefore in dating Saul's life up to Acts 18, it leads up to this specific date as it is absolutely definite. No one disputes this.

(N2) In 18:2, Saul meets two Jews who had been expelled from Rome; this edict of banishment was in 49 CE and supports the date given in (4).

(N3) Taking Acts and Gal as being accurate, yet more problems arise:

(a) Is the 3 years of Gal 1:18 to be dated from Saul's conversion or his returning to Damascus ? (b) How long did the missionary work in (4) take? The above includes a year. (c) When does the 14 years in Gal 2:1 begin - his conversion (his starting point in the passage) or the 1st Jerusalem visit mentioned just before?

Therefore, it appears from the above table that Saul's conversion took place in the year after Christ died and yet much was supposed to have occurred between these events, ie. all that is included in Acts 1:1 - 9:1.

Furthermore the minimum times possible have been allowed in the above so there cannot be any accusation that it has been formulated in a way to presuppose anything, or deliberately cause problems.

For example, in (4) - it would be most unlikely all this travelling could be done in just one year. If it was (say) two years because there is a fixed point (ie. (5).) as 51 CE which is known to be correct and can't be altered, the starting point has to be moved back to fit in the extra year into the schedule and Saul's conversion is then dated as 30 CE. However that would mean Saul was converted by seeing the risen Christ before he even died. The same applies with Gal 1:18 - if the 3 years begins from Saul returning to Damascus and not the conversion, there would have to be time also included for Saul's antics in Arabia (Gal 1:17) and being included in the time before 51 CE would again would push Saul's conversion back to something like 29 CE. In fact some Christians do state

Jesus' death was 33 CE and this would mean Saul was converted by seeing the risen Christ (ie. 29 CE) before Christ had even started his three-year ministry (30 CE) let alone had died and risen.

Dating Saul's conversion as 31 CE and Christ's death in 30 CE creates many problems, ie. it is known that the Jewish Passover (8th April - the Jewish 15 Nisan) fell on a Saturday in the year 30 CE; but the Synoptics make it clear that Jesus was crucified on the Passover but the following day was Saturday and they therefore date the Passover as a Friday. The Passover began on Thursday evening (the Jewish day begins the previous evening) and ended Friday evening - ie. Mark 14:l2 to 15:42. In sum, the different narratives cannot be reconciled and appear to be divorced from historical fact.

It should also be mentioned that with regard to working out when Saul was converted, that whilst just 1 year for Saul's 2nd missionary journey was given, others say it was longer, eg. the evangelical New International Version (Bible) in its schedule of Saul's life says it was 2 years (ie. this then makes Saul's conversion 30 CE). Furthermore they date the time between Christ's ascension and Saul's conversion (ie. Acts l:l-9:l) as SEVEN YEARS. If this figure was used above then it would make Saul's conversion remain as 31 CE (this cannot be changed or made later), but Christ's death/ascension would be 7 years earlier, ie. in 23 CE. However, this cannot be so as Luke (3:1) states that Christ's ministry began in the fifteenth year of Tiberius and as there is no doubt about the time of his rule, the l5th year is definitely 28-29 CE.

Therefore using the information that the Bible itself supplies, the accounts given of Christ's death and/or Saul's conversion, etc, are shown to be ficticious. Furthermore one question that must be asked is why the New Testament writers appear to have this amazing difficulty in locating Jesus in achronological setting if he really existed?

(Note: Taken from holysmoke.org)
 
Fundies claim to believe that ALL of Scripture are inspired by God. That would apply especially to their favorite Bible author, Paul, who gave the following perfectly clear instructions, regarding obedience to one's political leaders, in his

Letter to the Romans 13:1-7

" Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; for it is God's servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, busy with this very thing. Pay to all what is due them--taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. "

If Fundamentalists REALLY BELIEVE this passage is inspired and inerrant, then they are obligated to tell all of the Christian subjects of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Min, Castro, Milosovich, and all the other monsters who have been in authority, that "GOD's WORD' compels them to obey such rulers : there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. . . Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed. Paul doesn't allow for the slightest bit of "interpretation". He makes the same point over and over again, that we should treat any and all rulers as God's very own appointees to whatever office they hold, be it governor, king, emperor, president, prime minister, secretary general, or Führer.
 
SourStar: Was Paul the Founder of Christianity?
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M*W: Unquestionably, yes.
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SourStar: Atheists are not known for scholarship. They are mainly reactionaries.
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M*W: I disagree. Although I'm not an atheist, the ones I have known were by far more scholarly than any Christians I have known, and I have known a LOT of Christians of all persuasions in my day. It is the Christians who are not scholarly, because they blindly believe what they're told. Christians don't venture out on their own to find the truth -- atheists do. I would also say that I believe atheists know more about Christianity than you do. You say atheists "are mainly reactionaries." Please explain what atheists are reacting to and why?
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SourStar: For various personal or emotional reasons, they have rejected faith in God.
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M*W: You are wrong. Atheists do NOT "reject 'faith' in God." Atheists reject the concept of God; therefore, how can one have "faith" in something one does not see as a reality?
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SourStar: Their disbelief is not the result of careful research and objective evaluation of factual data. But, being unwilling to simply wither away in their own intellectual stagnation, some of them lash out at believers – usually in the most irrational way.
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M*W: Since atheists don't believe "blindly," I believe they actually do more research that religious believers. Their arguments hold more water than Christians.
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SourStar: An example of this superficiality is found in a recently published book: In God We Trust: But Which One? (Madison, WI: Freedom From Religion Foundation, 1996). This unsophisticated diatribe is authored by Judith L. Hayes, a California atheist and defunct columnist for Freethought Today.

Ms. Hayes either does not know how to assess historical information, or else she deliberately perverts it. One would rather be charitable and believe that she simply is ignorant of the methods of scholarly research. I do not think she has examined any primary source of information; it is my impression that she merely parrots the baseless allegations of her infidelic predecessors. At any rate, she writes:

“Just whether nor not Jesus was an actual, historical figure is the subject of much scholarly debate. St. Paul, who was the real founder of the religion known as Christianity, barely discussed Jesus as a person, and made no references to his family” (p. 119; emp. WJ).
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M*W: I've never heard of this book nor this author, but just because she happens to an atheist does not preclude her from knowing or researching the truth about Christianity. Further, she is definitely NOT the only author who has written about the historical Jesus. It is true, that Paul founded Christianity. Even Christians know that! Paul NEVER KNEW Jesus! Paul was a self-proclaimed apostle. He wasn't invited into Jesus' inner circle by any of the other apostles. Paul lived after Jesus' time. There are many, many authors out there today who have studied Paul in relationship to Jesus, and they have concluded the same thing as Ms. Hayes. They all can't be wrong.
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SourStar: Let us give brief analysis to these statements.

First, the question of whether Jesus was “an actual, historical figure” is not the subject of “much scholarly debate” today.
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M*W: Wrong! See my post above.
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SourStar: Only a few obscure atheists are even raising the issue.
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M*W: Again! The people who are "raising the issue" are NOT ATHEISTS! They are scholars of every persuasion, including Christian scholars. Get your facts straight.
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SourStar: The presence of Jesus of Nazareth is so firmly rooted in fact that Ernest Renan, a French critic, who was no friend of Christianity, said that “all history is incomprehensible without him” and “to tear his name from this world would be to shake it to its foundations” (pp. 26, 212).
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M*W: It has long been proven by today's scholars that the town of Nazareth did NOT exist in the time of Jesus, nor was the historical Jesus correctly called "Jesus of Nazareth." This historical person called "Jesus" was known as "Jesus, the Nazorene." The Nazorenes were a certain sect of Jews, but they lived nowhere near Nazareth.
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SourStar: Joseph Klausner, the famous scholar of Hebrew University – who did not believe that Jesus was divine – unhesitatingly argued that Christ lived in the first century, and that He exerted a powerful influence – both then and across the centuries. His book, Jesus of Nazareth marshals a powerful array of evidence for the historicity of Christ (pp. 17-62). Even Steve Allen, who hates Christianity, confessed: “My own belief is that he [Jesus] did indeed live in the time of Augustus Caesar . . .” (p. 229).

Second, let us consider the ludicrous charge that “St. Paul . . . was the real founder” of the Christian system. How interesting it would be to confront Mrs. Hayes face-to-face, and call for the evidence supporting that outlandish statement.
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M*W: I'd like to see this, because every book I've read about Paul's participation in creating the Christian myth (and there are tons of books), all say the same thing. Paul created Christianity. Christianity was not what Jesus was teaching nor was Jesus a Christian. People who believe this are simply fooled.
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SourStar: Christianity was launched on the day of Pentecost, fifty days after the death of Jesus (Acts 2).
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M*W: This is what Roman Catholics believe.
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SourStar: On its first day it consisted of no less than 3,000 people (Acts 2:41). Shortly thereafter, the number had grown to 5,000 men alone (Acts 4:4). Subsequently “believers were the more added to the Lord” (5:14), because the apostles had filled Jerusalem with their teaching (5:28). Every day the message of Christ was being proclaimed (5:42), and the church experienced phenomenal growth on a daily basis (6:7). At this time, as any elementary Bible student knows, Saul of Tarsus (later designated as “Paul”) was still a zealous persecutor of the church. He was one of the principals at the death of Stephen, the first Christian martyr (8:1).
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M*W: Paul called for the stoning of Stephen. I believe Stephen was one of the true followers of Jesus in Jerusalem. Why, then, would Paul want to murder a true believer in the Rabbi Jesus? Furthermore, research indicates that Paul robbed Stephen's church, as he had robbed churches all over the area.
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SourStar: But Christianity already had spread considerably. The gospel had gone throughout Judea and Samaria (8:1). As a result of the conversion of the Ethiopian, the message took root in Africa (8:26ff).

When the student confronts Saul in Acts 9, the fiery Hebrew was making preparation to leave for Damascus (in Syria) in order to extradite Christians; the religion of Jesus had expanded beyond the northern borders of Palestine (9:2-19). The apostle later said that he had persecuted the Christian Way unto foreign cities (Acts 26:11), which is another commentary on how extensively it had flourished. It is the epitome of irresponsibility to allege that Paul was the “founder” of Christianity.
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M*W: Well, SourStar, since you have not read any of the research that has been published about Jesus, you are in no position to condemn the statement that "Paul was the founder of Christianity."
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SourStar: Third, Mrs. Hayes’ statement, that Paul “barely discussed Jesus as a person,” simply is not true. Consider the following points.

1. The physical appearance of Christ, and matters relating to His family, etc., were of no concern to the early advocates of the gospel. Whether the Lord was short, tall, slim, or stocky had no bearing whatever upon the message of human redemption.
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M*W: The "physical appearance of Christ" regarding how tall or short, the color of eyes, what he wore, etc., is not what people want to know about the historical Jesus. The "physical appearance of Christ" is concerned with his "physical PRESENCE" on Earth and not the superficiality of his general looks. Typical Christian misinterpretation.
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SourStar: In fact, as we have shown elsewhere (see Jackson, pp. 17ff), the very omission of personal minutia – not only by Paul, but by all the New Testament writers – is evidence itself that these men were not writing under ordinary human impulses. They deliberately by-passed those numerous details for which our curiosity clamors. This is an indication they were guided by the Spirit of God, rather than by common instinct.

But Mrs. Hayes, with typical skeptical crudeness, complains that the New Testament does not mention intimate items regarding Christ (e.g., whether or not He urinated, or if He experienced sexual arousal - p. 126). And because the sacred record does not cater to her unusual interests, she faults it, and questions the historicity of Jesus. The reader can judge for himself the value of this objection.

2. In spite of the fact that Paul neglected personal trivialities regarding Jesus, the apostle’s preaching was saturated with the essential data concerning the Son of God. To the saints in Corinth he wrote: “And I, brethren, when I came unto you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified” (1 Cor. 2:1-2).
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M*W: Yes, "Paul neglected personal trivialities regarding Jesus,"
because Paul had never seen the historical Jesus. They lived in different times. They never crossed paths.
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SourStar: 3. It is only in light of the fact that Paul was consumed with the historical Christ that one can explain the sustained growth of the church under the influence of his teaching. He likely preached from Jerusalem in the east, to Spain in the west (cf. Rom. 15:24). His known travels spanned some 12,000 miles.

4. It is a gross misrepresentation to suggest that Paul only barely discussed the person of the Lord. The apostle alluded to the preincarnate state of Jesus who, though existing in the form of deity, nonetheless emptied Himself of His equality with the Father, and became a human being (Phil. 2:5ff).

Paul noted that Christ was born of woman (Gal. 4:4); that He was of the lineage of Abraham (Gal. 3:16), and of the seed of David (Rom. 1:3). The apostle states that Jesus was sent “in the likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom. 8:3), though He never committed a single personal sin (2 Cor. 5:21).

A sampling of Paul’s epistles will allow any careful, sincere student to see what sort of emphasis the noble apostle gave to the Savior. For example, the name “Jesus” is found no fewer than 221 times in Paul’s thirteen known letters. The designation “Christ” occurs some 406 times, and the apostle refers to Jesus as God’s “Son” approximately 17 times. He alludes to Him as “Savior” about 13 times.
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M*W: If Jesus were an actual historical person, why didn't any writers of the day mention him? Of course, Paul couldn't write about what Jesus looked like, because they never met, much less wrote down what Jesus might have said, because it wasn't first hand nor was it second hand. Paul may not have known anyone who knew Jesus.
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SourStar: It is thus a distortion of enormous magnitude to suggest that Paul was the real founder of Christianity, and that his attention to Jesus Christ was minimal.

Our skeptical friends would do well to explore the darkness of their souls to determine what sort of psychical abnormality therein exists that so frantically drives them to distort truth.

From: http://www.christiancourier.com/feature/november98.htm[/QUOTE]
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M*W: The only truth being distorted is that which Christians distort. There are a plethora of books out there in bookstores everywhere that address the issues of Paul and Jesus. You might be interested to know that at the time Jesus lived up to and including the day he was allegedly crucified, Jesus WAS NOT divine! I challenge all Christians out there to do a little outside reading of your own -- or at least look on the Internet. Jesus wasn't made to be divine until well into the 300's AD. Christians want to believe Jesus was divine, so they would not fear their own death. For those who want to study and research issues concerning Jesus, we having nothing to fear. Once you hear the truth, you can't go back. The truth is clear and there is no confusion and doubt.
 
3- Christ said that St.Peter is his rock on which he will build his church, but Paul couldn't help himself claiming that St.Peter lost the true path and that it was up to Paul to bring himback to the group.
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Peter's name was Petros, which means pebble. When Christ said "On this rock I will build my church" He used the word petra for rock, which means boulder. The rock is not Peter, but the words that Peter had previously stated as to who Jesus was.
 
The Church of Paul

Paul was NOT one of the Apostles. He received the Gentile Franchise Letter from Acts 15, and immediately threw off the supervision of Barnabus who had been his sponsor. The Real Apostles were troubled that Paul began creating his own Teachings and Doctrines, but Peter allowed it since Paul was making large contributions to the Jerusalem Office.

You can see that Paul was opposed to the True Apostles, since, in his letters, he warns his Congregations to be loyal to only his Teachings, and that the Apostles were False Apostles. There is much Antisemitism in Paul's Letters. In Galatians we see Paul distinguishing between his Church, and the Church of the Jews under Peter. What Jesus established was that Church of the Jews under Peter. THAT was the Apostolic Church.

The Apostolic Church was effectively destroyed when the Romans Destroyed Jerusalem. The 4 Gospels, written after the destruction of the Apostolic Church was authored by followers of Paul, not of Christ. Doctrines of Salvation and Redemption were created to appeal to the Greek desire for Mystery. If you look at the Gospels, while ignoring the editorializing of the Authors and just concentrate on quotes of Christ's most famous sermons, which were heard by thousands and so must have been represented with some degree of honesty -- those Sermons teach a Moral and Mystical Path to Heaven -- a Narrow and Difficult Path. Paul's Easy Way to Salvation through Faith are certainly a Man Made Invention.
 
Enigma'07 said:
Paul teaches the same as Jesus did.
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No scholar thinks so, and no theologian thinks so. The Catholic Church in its Catachism and the Protestant Churches cannot justify their doctrines without quoting paul.

Paul's Doctrines were for a competing Gentile Faction. Christ never authorized a separate and different teaching for the Gentiles.

Christ taught a Moral Criteria. Paul taught the rejection of moral criteria and the law and taught salvation by faith and grace. He taught an amoral election, and that good works were a debt and good works a boast. Christ also taught the Sacrament of the Eucharist -- the Real Body and Blood in the Bread and the Wine. But Paul taught that the Holy Sacrament was conditional depending on the recipients attitude -- that in most cases the Holy Sacrament would be like a poison.

It is clear that Paul undermined every doctrine that was important to Christ.

Christ warned that there would be a False Prophet. Christ warned that the Field of Wheat which was the Church would be mixed with Weeds. Christ warned that there would be a Wide Way which would lead to destruction. Paul, Paul, and Paul.

The Last Prophet, Simeon, prophecized on the day of Christ's Presentation that Christ's Doctrines would be contradicted. Simeon foresaw Paul. Simeon also prophecized that there would be a campaign of insult against Mary the Blessed Virgin, which Paul effectively put into motion by asserting that all mortals were in fact sinners -- now accepted as an article of faith irregardless of how often Christ spoke of Righteousness as being attainable.
 
okinrus said:
Hello, Leo! Back to Paul attacks again?
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Okinrus! I was wondering if that was you. I took a break for awhile -- to read and meditate -- to find out what the next big thing would be. Most of the busy pages had banned me, and besides, I was beginning to repeat myself too often, which is boring.

Hey, if you are here, it must be a pretty good page, huh?

Anyway, no new major revelation has occured to me. I had a few Visions to keep me going, but nothing 'new'.

It will be nice talking to you again, Oki!
 
WOMEN & SAUL/ST.PAUL

WOMEN ---> Jesus' radical treatment towards women were revolutionary as written in John 4:7-26. He refused to follow the behavioral rules established by the three major Jewish religious groups, Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees of the day, who restricted women to roles of little or no authority, and also were considered to be inferior and under the authority of men.

Saul/St.Paul said, "I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not: After the Damascus road event Saul cried out, "I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee.-( Acts 23:6 ). Here what Jesus said about the Pharisee, "Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.(John 8:44).

Here are some of Saul's commendments for women that christian fundamentalists believe to be the Word of God:

"---women adorn themselves in modest apparrel, with shamefaceness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold or prearls, or costly array;"

"---train the younger women---to be subject to their husbands."( Titus 2:4 )

--- "WIVES, submitt yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the chruch:"-(Eph. 5:22-23)

"---women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."( 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 )

--- "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over man, but to be in slience." --- " ---but woman being deceived was in the transgression. Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." (1 Tim. 2:11-15)
"---Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and the head of Christ is God."( 1 Corinthians 11:3 )

Because of these kind of doctrines, women have been enslaved , imprisoned, disgraced and made silent if at all possible by their fathers, husbands, and brothers, and the religious community. For the women that did not believe and accept these doctrines of Saul's Lord (the Devil), the punishments that many women have suffered were to wicked to mention. The History on how women were and are treated in the religious world was and is an abomination. In recent years, as in the twentith century, women have been rebeling against the words of Saul's Christ, without even recognizing that Saul's testimony is of the Devil who claimed to be The Jesus of Nazareth. No wonder so many cruse Jesus' name.

All these written commandments for women, from Saul the Pharisee, are not in agreement with Jesus' words and examples. It's important to know how Jesus treated women. Women that were treated as outcast by the mainstream, Jesus demonstrated both tender compassion and insight. Jesus was also approachable by those that were considered the lowest of the low, or the rejects by the status quo. In the four gospels, there are many examples of how Jesus treated women. One good example is about the woman of Samaria ---> ( John 4:6-26 ).

On behave of my God, Jesus the Alpha and Omega I say to the women of the world, Saul's Lord Jesus Christ is the The Beast, and Saul/St.Paul is the greastest of false prophet who has deceived the christian world.. My God, Jesus the Alpha and Omega will soon reveal this to be TRUE.

Peace be with you, Paul
 
UNDERSTANDING FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANITY


Understanding fundamental Christianity is to understand the personality and characteristics of Saul/St.Paul

Saul/St.Paul said, "I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not: After the Damascus road event Saul cried out, "I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee.-( Acts 23:6 ). Here what Jesus said about the Pharisee, "Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.(John 8:44).

Saul was granted Sainthood of higher status than any other Saints in the christian world; by who? Did Saul grant himself to change his name to St.Paul?

( SAINT ---> came from a Greek word that came to mean 'free from blemish', also Saints are all those who by baptism have entered into the Christian covenant. )

Here is some writtings that describes the personality and characteristics that Saul reveals about himself, which is certainly not a sign of a true apostle or a SAINT.--- as written in 2 Cor. chapter 10-12. But first, Anannis, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all Jews has said, that he has heard by many, how much evil Saul has done to the saints in Jerusalem. When Saul was in Jerusalem to join the disciples, they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.-( Acts 9:26 ) Saul was not a disciple because of his deeds.

Saul said, "---I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor,and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our 'Lord' was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus."-( 1 Tim. 12-15 ).

--- "As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia."
--- " For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority"
--- " That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters."
--- " But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly manifest among you in ALL things"
--- " I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service."
Being rude, robbing churches , to terrify and being boastful is not the charateristics that of a chief apostle of JESUS.
--- "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:"
--- "I became a fool in glorying; you have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you." Here Saul is complaining because his Jesus said, "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness."
--- "We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in 'Christ';" (Cor.4:10)
--- "Whether in pretence or in truth, Christ is preached I therein do rejoice." (Phil. 1:18) --- " And unto the Jews I became a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; --- To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by ALL MEANS save some. ---"
---"being crafty, I caugth you with guile"
--- "bear one anothers's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ ," -(Gal. 6:2)<---vs.---> "For every man shall bear his own burden." -(Gal. 6:5)
--- "I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ'" --- "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord," -(Ephesians 3:1, 4:1).
--- "Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ" --- "being such as one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Chirst." --- "Therefore salute thee Epaphras, my fellowprisoner in Jesus Christ" -(Philemon 1:1, 1:9, 1:23).

PRISONER---> a person confined against their will.
CRAFTY---> Skillful in deceiving: cunning.
INFIRMITTIES ---> physical or mental defects.
PRETENSE---> false show of intentions or motives
RUDE ---> impolite; offensive
TERRIFY ---> fill with terror
FOOL ---> idiot, halfwit, buffoon, entertainer, stooge
BOASTFUL ---> talk about oneself with indulgent pride
THIEF ---> a robber, person who steals especaily in secret, con man
EVIL ---> wicked, morally bad
COMPELLED ---> forced
MUST ---> feel compelled, or force to

Even though Saul said, "Abstain from all appearance of evil." ( Thess.5:22 ), he himself has come short of following the advice of his own Christ to maintain the pretense of Sainthood. It is quite understandable why Saul was a prisoner of his Christ, the God of his fathers, who is the Devil. Being compelled to suffer and trying to abstain from all 'appearance' of evil was very difficult for Saul, and made Saul feel like a prisoner of his Lord. For reasons that I do not know, most chritians believe that these qualities defined above, are that of a saint of the most high, the chief apostle. The reason for Saul's sainthood might be because he was told that he must suffer, was compelled becoming a fool, and took pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for his Christ's sake. Or maybe Saul was given sainthood because he was a prisoner of his Lord Jesus Christ. Today, who would grant Sainthood to a man with Saul's personality and characteristics, would you? Ask yourself who is this Lord Jesus Christ of Saul's? Jesus was not compelled to suffer by his Father, and Jesus would not compell anyone to suffer and make them feel like a prisoner, not even Saul. The One that came to Saul on the road to Damascus was the Devil disguised as The Jesus of Nazareth.

Peace be with you, Paul
 
THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET

Saul/St.Paul said, "I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not: Saul cried out, "I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee.-( Acts 23:6 ).

JESUS said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. --- Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." ( Matthew 7:15-20 ) --- ( fruits --> the result of action )

John's Revelation---> " the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image." ( Rev. 19:20 )
--- "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the whole world, ---"( Rev.16:14 ).

Saul said,---> "Truly the sign of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds".( 2 Cor. 12:12).
--- " Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentles by them." (Acts 15:12 )

JESUS warned,---> "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive The Very Elect."-( Matt. 24:24 )

Surely christians would notice here that John's description and JESUS' description of the false prophets are the same as Saul's description of a true apostle or a true prophet. Christian will have great difficulty to accept that they have been deceived by Saul, who has been appointed by the false Christ to deceive all of mankind if it were possible. Also christians have difficulty believing that Satan, the beast can tranform himself into an angel of light saying " I am the Jesus of Nazareth", who can do miracles, wonders and mighty deeds to deceive all of mankind if it were possible. The Beast that said, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth", blinded Saul, then restored Saul's sight, making Saul a prisoner and compelled Saul to suffer. The abstaining from all appearance of evil is the same as wolves wearing sheeps clothing. The strange is thing that most christians cannot accept that Jesus the Alpha and Omega would permitt Satan to deceive the world in this manner.

So many have been deceived. A Deceiver will blind them, then when they are blind, the Deceiver will tell them that they can see. THE GREAT DECEIVER does not have an appearance of evil, and operates in secret like a chameleon, He can say "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" to deceive the whole world ("the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world" Rev.12:9) Saul/St.Paul is not only great false prophet that has come, there are many other such as the prophet Muhammad, the prophet Joseph Smith and so on.

Saul learned the art of deception from his God, the deceiver. For example:
"--- Whether in pretence or in truth, Christ is preached I therein do rejoice." (Phil. 1:18) --- " And unto the Jews I became a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; --- To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by ALL MEANS save some. ---" and by ALL MEANS gain them, even by showing great signs and wonders. It has been very apparent that those who worship Saul's Christ, would not hesitate using ALL MEANS to gain disciples. ( by ALL MEANS is ? ----- ) Christian history, past and present has revealed this to be so.

As you read, you will find out that Saul's Lord Jesus Christ and the beast are of the same violent wicked spirit, having the same character and personality .---> a vengefull destroyer and killer,---violent and wicked.. When the Son of Man, the King to come is known, you will find out the character and personality of those that worship Saul's Lord Jesus Christ by their actions, and their vengeful wickeness will be reveal to the whole world who Saul's Lord really is. "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction."

---JESUS said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. --- Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." ( Matthew 7:15-20 ) --- ( fruits --> the result of action )

Saul/St.Paul's revelation of his Lord Jesus Christ's power to destroy and kill.
---" And to you who are trouble rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire "taking vengeance" on them that know not God and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be "punished with everlasting destruction" from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and admired in all them that believed ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day. --- And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and "shall destroy" with brightness of his coming.-( 2 Thess 1:7-10, and 2:8 )

St.John's Revelation of the beast's power to destroy and kill.
---" And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly would was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, --- And he had power to give life unto The Image of the Beast, that The Image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship The Image of the Beast should be killed. (Rev.13:12-13 and 15)

JESUS said, "Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." ( Matthew 7:15-20 ) --- ( fruits --> the result of action ) JESUS said, HE would pray to the FATHER that HE would send another Comforter, not a Beast that calls himself the Lord Jesus Christ.

As you notice above, it is written that those who worship Saul's Lord Jesus Christ, and those who worship the beast are of the same wicked Spirit, because they will do the same, they will take vengeance, causing everlasting destruction, kill and destroy with fire and cause massive suffering which will be worse than your worst nightmare. When Saul/St.Paul's Christ is revealed to be the Beast, those that worship this Beast will no longer be able to abstain from the appearance of evil, the sheep's clothing will be removed from the wolves, then by their fruits you shall know them. Those that worship the beast who is also Saul/St.Paul's Lord Jesus Christ "shall make war with The Lamb of the Second Coming , and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is LORD of LORDS, and KING of KINGS, and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful." ( Rev. 17:14). The Lamb of the Second Coming "had a name written, that no man knew, but He himself" - (Rev.19:12).

Peace be with you, Paul
 
CHRISTIANITY!?


CHRISTIANITY!? Can christians bring about a heaven on earth, or is there any other religion that can bring about a heaven on earth. Christianity has so much conflict and division, and it's history was an abomination, to bloody and wicked to mention. What about now?! Today, can the human society at large count on christians to bring about a peaceful world, or even a 'peaceful country'? The Testimony of JESUS has been ignored for nearly 2000 years by most of those that have called themselves christians. "Love your enemies, ---." Have ever asked yourself WHY? Is it possible that most of the christian in the world have been, and are deceived in worshiping a false Jesus, a false Christ, an imposter, who is the Beast, or the Devil, etc.? --->( 2 Thess 1:7-10, and 2:8 ). ---JESUS said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. --- Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." ( Matthew 7:15-20 ) --- ( fruits --> the result of action )

The divided Christian Kingdom. There more than a dozen families of protestant denominations, and thousands of individual christian faith groups -- over 1,000 in North America alone. Some of these groups believe that they are the only true Christian Church. How would one find the true Christian church There appears to be no clear, obvious choice. But the ones that have already chosen a church believe that their own denominations is the True Christian Church.

Saul's Lord Jesus loves to be praised, admired, and worshiped, but JESUS said, " the true worshippers worship the FATHER in spirit and in truth. GOD is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth." ( John 4:21-24 ) JESUS never said, "praise me, admire me, and worship me, but HE did say, "do the things I said." For who, have all the christians been killing for in the last 2000 years?, for who were all the cathedrals decked with gold and precious stones built for?, certainly not for JESUS, the ALPHA and OMEGA. Because of Saul/St.Paul and his mystery Christ's testimony, JESUS' testimony of LOVE has been derailed, and ignored by the majority of christians for nearly 2000 years. Those that believe in JESUS' testimony of LOVE are not divided, but those that believe in Saul/St.Paul mystery Christ's religion are divided into many denominations and sects, over 1,000 Christian faith groups in North America. The kingdom of christianity; ---> JESUS said, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not shall: And if Satan cast out Satan, he divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?" For those that have an open door within them will understand what I have written.

Jesus said, "Ye shall NOT SEE ME henceforth, till ye shall say, "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the LORD."(Matt.23:39)---

THE AUTHOR of Saul's/St.Paul's testimony is the angel of light that came to Saul that said, " I am the Jesus of Nazareth" On the Road to Damascus, Saul's Jesus said, "rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"-( Acts 26:16 ). But Jesus said, "Ye shall NOT SEE ME henceforth, -------."

The first beast came to Saul as an angel of light saying, " I am the Jesus of Nazareth" One of the greatest attributes a deceiver has is to " abstain from all appearance of evil" as Saul said in 1 Thess. 5:22, which also means put on sheep's clothing to hide one's true self. Also Saul said that his God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" - ( Thess 2:11) Jesus, the Alpha and Omega would not send anybody delusions of any kind, only the devil sends delusions, and also, JESUS, the ALPHA and OMEGA never would say, "abstain from all appearance of evil", instead Jesus has said "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. When the Son of Man comes with the power and authortiy from Jesus, the Alpha and Omega, The Almighty, those that worship Saul's Lord Jesus Christ will no longer be able to abstain from ALL appearance of evil. The evil spirit of Saul's Christ will be exposed by through those that worship him. At the time of the Damascus Road Event, Satan and Saul didn't know that Jesus already been granted his new name. Also Saul didn't know that another comforter, the man child, the King of Kings, He who overcometh as Jesus overcame would come in the new name of the LORD. ---"and I will write upon Him my new name." The King to come had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. JESUS said, "Ye shall NOT SEE ME henceforth, till ye shall say, "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the LORD."-(Matt.23:39) .

WHY did the Damascus Road Event happen? ---> JESUS' message of Love with Rightousness brought into action, would bind Satan from having any power to deceive mankind. Satan was in a real dilema because, he, the prince of this world is judged by THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS which already has be given.--- "Of judgement, because the prince of this world is judged."-( John 16:11 ) What was Satan to do? Satan could hide himself by clothing himself with JESUS' WORDS so he could add his own testimony. Satan had no choice, but to transformed himself into an angel of light claiming to be 'The Jesus of Nazareth'. By doing this, Satan became Saul's Lord Jesus Christ, who convinced the christian world he was, and is the JESUS that spoke from the FATHER, who was cruified on the cross. HOW CLEVER!!! This opened door for additional doctrines to be added to dilute the authority of JESUS' WORDS. Saul's Lord Jesus Christ's additional doctrines that were added to cause confusion, conflict and division. Christian history show this to be so. Still today, those that call themselves christians are divided into countless denominations and sects, over 1,000 Christian faith groups in North America, and some of these groups believe that they are 'The Only True Christian Chruch, which are in disagreement with each other over doctrines that are not from JESUS. Saul's great ambitious mission has succeeded, he won the race. But thank JESUS, the ALPHA and OMEGA, that his Son, the King to come is not deceived.

Saul was the ideal candidate, because of his great ambitious mission was to derail, to stop the JESUS movement. Satan's best agent at that time, Saul, a Pharisee, who was under a lot of stress, because he couldn't destroy JESUS' movement by killing and perscuting the early followers of JESUS. There must be a better way, which is to deceive in abstaining from all appearance of evil Saul's ambitions and spiritual condition as a zealous persecutor, was ripe for a vision from Saul's Lord. On the Road to Damascus a vision of a blinding light came to Saul, from his Lord, the God of his fathers. This Lord said to Saul, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" Saul answered, Who art thou, Lord?" Saul must have been very surprized that his Lord, called himself 'The Jesus of Nazareth'. After this Saul arrived in Damascus where Ananias came to Saul. Ananias said to Saul, " The God of our fathers has chosen you."( Acts 22:14 ) --- Who was and is the God of Saul's and Ananias's father. Both they and their fathers were Pharisees, that JESUS spoke of, who were the pious religious. --- JESUS said "Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.(John 8:44). --- The God of Saul's and Ananias's fathers was not the FATHER of JESUS, but their God was and is the Devil as JESUS has said.

THE RACE WAS ON! --- Saul's Christ told Ananias, "For I will show him >(Saul) how great things he MUST SUFFER for my name's sake. (Acts 9:16). But JESUS said, " Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall rest unto your souls."

Saul went Jerusalem where he was brought in front of the council, there Saul cried out, "I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee.-( Acts 23:6 ) "MAKE HASTE, and get out of Jerusalem quickly." From the time of the Damascus road event the race was on. "Know ye not that they which run in a race, run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain."-( 1 Cor. 9:24 ) When Saul/St.Paul was in a trance, in Jerusalem, Saul saw his Christ saying to him, "Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly:---> for they will not receive your testimony concerning me"-(Acts 22:18). Saul's Lord was very angished to get Saul going immediately to preach and write of his testimony. What was Saul doing on the road to Damascus??? Who was Saul's Lord when he was trying to stop the spreading of JESUS' TESTIMONY OF LOVE. The angel of light, Satan, who called himself Jesus, came to Saul to teach him a better way to stop the JESUS' WAY from spreading. The best way for Satan to derail JESUS' WAY is to DECEIVE by abstaining from all appearance of evil, and say, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth". Saul and his Christ has won the race, convincing the world his Christ was the same Christ that was crucfied.

When Saul/St.Paul was in 'a trance', in Jerusalem, Saul saw his Christ saying to him, "Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly:---> for they will not receive your testimony concerning me"-(Acts 22:18). But years earlier, JESUS has already commissioned his disciples, that His Life and Testimony is to be taught, and to be observed in ALL nations.
---"Go ye therefore, and teach ALL nations, Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world."-( Matt. 28:18-20 ).
---"the gospel must first be published among ALL nations-( Mark 13:10 )
---"this gospel shall be preached throughout the WHOLE world"-( Mark 14:9 )
---"Go ye into ALL the world
---"repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among ALL nations, beginning at Jerusalem"-( Luke 24:47 )

In 'a trance' Saul saw his Christ saying to him, "Make haste, ---". Before JESUS was executed, HE warned his disciples, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive The Very Elect."-( Matt. 24:24 )

From this Mystical Jesus, Saul developed the doctrine of the mystical Body of Christ, --- "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:" -(Hebrew 1:3), and also added many other doctrines. Thirteen of twenty seven letters or writings were written as they were Saul/St.Paul words, most were written before the gospels. It seems that many of Paul's letters were written about 50 AD and the gospels were written about 68-100 AD. Saul/St.Paul forceful preaching had the ability of framing, influencing, and promoting his own ideology before the other New Testament books were written, but not without some influence. By 200 A.D., Christianity had already gone off the rails from JESUS's original GOSPEL OF LOVE, and was well on its way to becoming precisely the kind of hierarchal and VIOLENCE-BASED system, that JESUS had rebelled against with LOVE and JUDGMENT. By the third century Saul/St.Paul's teaching's and with other pagan doctrines and traditions gave birth to an entirely new religion ("upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.) to the satifaction of The Emperor Constantine, which came to have less and less to do with its supposed founder, the JESUS that is in oneness with his FATHER in heaven. A Universal Church, the mother of harlots, that had a name written MYSTERY was established, from these doctrines and other false doctrines. This church has attracted the most wicked men that walked the face of this earth, but also this church also attracted saints which where martyrs in JESUS' name. The history of the christian churches was an abomination, to bloody and wicked to mention. The Mystical Jesus, the beast gave Saul doctrines that would be acceptable to those that have great authority in the world, such as The Emperor Constantine, christian authorities such as popes, and the kings and their armies to rule in the world, using JESUS' name.- In Roman chapter 13:1-7, Saul's God, the God of the Parisees, through Saul, commands us to subject ourselves to government authorities in a visible way to show our submission to God.

SAUL HAS WON THE RACE , and he did recieved THE PRIZE, because he succeeded in his commission to institute the testimony and doctrines of his Lord Jesus Christ, the God of Ananias' and Saul's fathers, who were Pharisees. Saul/St.Paul by his long suffering became the chief prophet and chief apostle of christianity. Also Saul was given, or gave himself the title of Saint and a new name which is St.Paul. Saul has won THE PRIZE until that day when they shall say, "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the LORD, then Saul's Lord Jesus Christ, the beast will be revealed by the wickedness of those that worship him. JESUS said, "Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." ---> ( fruits---> results of actions )

Most all christians would say, "OH MY GOD!, it's unthinkable, it's impossible that JESUS, the ALPHA and OMEGA , would permitt Satan to transform himself into an angel of light saying " I am the Jesus of Nazareth" to deceive the christian world in this way, it's impossible!" Can a lie be so big and massive that it is impossible to believe it's a lie? YES, for the ones that are deceived. For those that believe and say it is impossible, it shuts the door ( the mind ) to any examination or discussion, and no words can be said, not even JESUS' WORDS can open the door for a serious examination and discussion to the possibility that satan DECEIVED the christian world through Saul/St.Paul. ( ("the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world" Rev.12:9)

The reason that Christians MUST believe it's unthinkable and impossible that Satan came to Saul as an angel of light, saying "I am Jesus
of Nazareth", to deceive the world, is because the consequence of this being TRUE would be SO MASSIVE that it would bring about a great spiritual earthquake that would crumble ALL the christian foundations that are built on Saul/St.Paul's Christ. But the Church of our Lord God, JESUS the ALPHA and OMEGA, which is built on Rock, and the foundation is HIS WORDS which will be forever and ever. --- "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but MY WORDS shall not pass away."

Peace be with you, Paul
 
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