Splendidly Enlightened Dreams... So What?

[Leo Volont]

Splendidly Enlightened Dreams

Often people new on the Spiritual Path suppose they are being neglected by the Great Spirit, or whatever, when their Enlightened Experiences come few and far between.

Then, when I speak to them of my own Experiences, hoping to inspire them, well, what actually occurs is that these people again focus upon their perceived spiritual depravations. Well, then I need to explain to them that I am an old man, and though my own experiences had been few and far between, the great deal of time that transpired in between seems to have made up for it all. Just consider, if I had just one decent Vision or Dream per year, then that would make for 60 wonderful stories. That seems like a lot, doesn’t it? But it is only one per year.

But now my concern is that when one has amazing Dreams and Visions, then one expects that there will be some carry-over into our Real Lives. But it seems that life goes on more or less the same as usual.

I’ve had something of a Trilogy of Dreams relatively recently. The dreams were either Lucid or Vivid to the same degree. In one I was in a Church and began to levitate, and as I floated toward the front of the Church toward the altar I became a body of light and became like a ball of golden light. For a moment I WAS light.

Several evenings ago I had the most vivid dream of being levitated up, this time with some assistance from a very powerful Spiritual Healer, and felt that I was made porous, and I could feel the flow of energy going through me, and as I was horizontal facing upward, the energy came up through me. I felt that it was to purifying me, but I felt at the same time that I already felt very clear. There seemed to be no points of resistance or obstruction. I was clean at some ultimate level of being.

In another dream I began to levitate, but with a degree of power, and so I took off like a rocket. It was with great effort that I could steer, but worked toward a northerly trajectory. I wanted to rise up into the sky and then attain a kind of Universal Consciousness – to see all and Be All. But what happened was that as I began to see the entire Universe, it became a small garden just below me. I woke up wondering, but it seemed to indicate that my Universe should be done to scale, that my universe should be of a manageable size.

Now, some of the establishing premises for those advocating Dream Work, and Lucid Dreams, and indeed all of this kind of Spiritual Effort, is that there should be some effect that comes through to our Lives from these successes on the Spiritual Plane.

Yes, one could dodge the primary issue, the expectation of a pivotal All-Transforming Moment of Enlightenment that is supposed to lift us up to some new Super level of being and consciousness. Instead I could speak of incremental change, of the Improving Self. I could claim to be better than when I started. Well, who isn’t? Maturity and Age is supposed to bring a certain amount of Wisdom. There is no magic there.

Indeed, this suggests a new point, and that is that these Spiritual Experiences really are not all that unique, or shouldn’t be. Perhaps every spiritually normal and healthy man should have this same species of experiences.

But, still, to speak of incremental change is still a dodge, an evasion of our expectations. We have only to go over the Literature – that of the Catholic Saints, or the Hindus, or the Sufis, and that of the few Buddhist Saints there have been, and we see that there had been Experiences so powerful that they reached all the way into the Actual Lives of the recipients.

Now, I have not lost hope. And forgive me for discussing the incremental improvements even after I dismissed their importance, but I noticed that I am both receiving more help from others, in my dreams and Visions, as well as being more of a Team Player… less of a Spiritual Loner. You see, we need to remember the Most Important Distinction between Good and Evil, between Spirituality and the Demonic, and that is that True Spirituality is Collective. Love is Unifying. It is the Demonic that stands off alone.

Oh, that reminds me of one representative dream. I was walking along a jungle trail and was singing “I Can See Clearly Now”, and was getting kind of funky with it. Then I happened upon this one Theatrical Troupe, and I found they were rehearsing the same material. So I found the Production Manager and asked if I could be given a job somewhere, since we seemed to have the same Interest. Well, that apparently indicated I had passed some test and they included me in a small group that set out toward the Top of the Mountain.

I guess if this essay has a Point it must be that if I were alone I would have to worry about my eventual Fate… that is, whether I was doing all the right stuff. But now that I find myself in the hands and company of others, some of them Saints, Gurus and Goddesses of the Highest Reputation and Acclaim, then I really shouldn’t have anything to worry about. As long as I keep being a Team Player, I will get what progress I am supposed to get.

 

[Cris]

Dreams are the result of random neuron firings as protein is replenished in the synapses, the connections between neurons. The often bizarre nature of dreams is the brain's attempt to make sense of otherwise random neural activity. Usually the results are associated in some way with recent conscious activity i.e. those were the synapses most recenty used that had had their protein levels depleted.

Dreams have no supernatural source, they are just distorted variations of your wide-awake conscious thoughts.

If you think your dreams are telling you something then it is only you talking to yourself.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Dreams are the result of random neuron firings as protein is replenished in the synapses, the connections between neurons. The often bizarre nature of dreams is the brain's attempt to make sense of otherwise random neural activity. Usually the results are associated in some way with recent conscious activity i.e. those were the synapses most recenty used that had had their protein levels depleted.

Thats is not entirely correct. Dreams (i.e. a form of natural human hallucination) occur when the brain is weeding out weak memories by pulsing electrical activity across the brain at decreasing strength with longer intervals in between pulses. Weaker connections are starved while stronger ones survive.

 

[Looney]

Fascinating. I have always been intrigued by dreams and their function. What about people who claim they never dream? Do they just forget their dreams? Why are some dreams more vivid than others?

 

[spidergoat]

Ha ha h a, what did you expect to hap[pen? an angel coming down from the heavens giving you stock tips? So what, I say! So what and be happy! Mere human motivations like gain and loss are like pimples on the ass of e-light 'n mint™.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

What about people who claim they never dream? Do they just forget their dreams?

Never met such a person. They simply might not have ever woken up during a REM cycle and therefore have no recollection of dream content.

Why are some dreams more vivid than others?

I am not sure that knowledge exists yet.

 

[Leo Volont]

Dreams are the result of random neuron firings as protein is replenished in the synapses, the connections between neurons.

This is the kind of thing that Science says because it refuses to generalize. You see Science is committed to QUANTIFICATION. Science simply cannot make a VALUE JUDGEMENT. So how is it that Science can insist that Dreams that have PATTERN, MEANING, and every evidence of INTENT, can still be what they call 'random'. Well, it is because Science refuses to recognize any PATTERN MEANING OR INTENT, that can't strictly be quantified.

Then we need to evaluate the kind of people who irrationally accept all this stupid quantification only gospel from the Scientists, while seeming to be clueless about everything in their World and in their own Minds which is a matter of Value and Quality, and not just a naked two-dimensional profile of quantification.

If you think dreams are 'random' then you have never had one.... well, not a good one.

But a great many Wise Men from almost every culture have reckoned with the notion that some people simply have no souls. So this may be one way to determine the matter. if a person thinks that dreams are random, then we can fairly put them into the Camp of the Souless.

Indeed, I often suppose that some people are actually quite unconscious. Their behavior is so predictable, in terms of quantifiable stimulus and response, that I simply can't see where there is any Free Will, let alone any Divine or Soulful Inspiration.

Scientists have benefited from a great deal of good Public Relations. they gain points for being so good at math. But, really, beyond math, they fall on their faces. Quantifiers, without art, poetry or music. And what do they do for us. These Scientists gave us Nuclear Bombs. Now, consider, what idiot would create a nuclear bomb and then hand it over to a Politician? These are the people that are telling us dreams are random. Yes, for them, they are probably right. their dreams are random.

 

[Leo Volont]

Thats is not entirely correct. Dreams (i.e. a form of natural human hallucination) occur when the brain is weeding out weak memories by pulsing electrical activity across the brain at decreasing strength with longer intervals in between pulses. Weaker connections are starved while stronger ones survive.

You call it 'weeding out weak memories', but it sounds as though the stronger memories are being reinforced. There is a difference of emphasis, is there not? The one is not being destroyed. Can you tell me that these memories are actually eradicated? No. But the stronger memories only advance by comparison.

And, again, we seem to have somebody whose mind is stuck in some textbook of quantification theory -- Scientists trying to explain away phenomena on the bases of very slendor categories of quantification. They don't know anything, but are only trying to apply REASONABLE MATERIALIST doctrines in order to negate Life and Meaning.

What of Visionary Dreams that have nothing to do with any previously lived experience?

Science claims a great deal of ground simply by ignoring most experience and phenomena.

Centuries ago Science had endeavored to become Empirical. Now, in order to keep the math simpler, most empiricals are flattly rejected. So we are foisted upon with Hypothesis where dreams are at first random, despite all their meaning message and extraordinary detail, and then they are Memory Managers that never seem to have much to do with anything anyone actually remembers, but time and time again go forward into Creation and Inspiration.

 

[Grantywanty]

Thats is not entirely correct. Dreams (i.e. a form of natural human hallucination) occur when the brain is weeding out weak memories by pulsing electrical activity across the brain at decreasing strength with longer intervals in between pulses. Weaker connections are starved while stronger ones survive.

When you describe the process you are describing learning.
Yet you call it hallucination, a word with negative characteristics.

 

[Leo Volont]

This is the kind of thing that Science says because it refuses to generalize. You see Science is committed to QUANTIFICATION. Science simply cannot make a VALUE JUDGEMENT. So how is it that Science can insist that Dreams that have PATTERN, MEANING, and every evidence of INTENT, can still be what they call 'random'. Well, it is because Science refuses to recognize any PATTERN MEANING OR INTENT, that can't strictly be quantified.

Then we need to evaluate the kind of people who irrationally accept all this stupid quantification only gospel from the Scientists, while seeming to be clueless about everything in their World and in their own Minds which is a matter of Value and Quality, and not just a naked two-dimensional profile of quantification.

If you think dreams are 'random' then you have never had one.... well, not a good one.

But a great many Wise Men from almost every culture have reckoned with the notion that some people simply have no souls. So this may be one way to determine the matter. if a person thinks that dreams are random, then we can fairly put them into the Camp of the Souless.

Indeed, I often suppose that some people are actually quite unconscious. Their behavior is so predictable, in terms of quantifiable stimulus and response, that I simply can't see where there is any Free Will, let alone any Divine or Soulful Inspiration.

Scientists have benefited from a great deal of good Public Relations. they gain points for being so good at math. But, really, beyond math, they fall on their faces. Quantifiers, without art, poetry or music. And what do they do for us. These Scientists gave us Nuclear Bombs. Now, consider, what idiot would create a nuclear bomb and then hand it over to a Politician? These are the people that are telling us dreams are random. Yes, for them, they are probably right. their dreams are random.

When you describe the process you are describing learning.
Yet you call it hallucination, a word with negative characteristics.

I really think there is more to the mind then our conscious thinking and even then our dreaming. Both Conscious Thinking and Dreaming involve a kind of linear single-pointed focus of Awareness upon one particular line of mental activity. But what really happens, I suppose, is that the Mind is churning even while there is no particular 'light' of awareness, shall we say.

People who do intense practice of certain mental and physical disciplines know this quite well... that as they practice, they get better. But even while they discontinue practice, they still get better. The Mental Activity creates a kind of Momentum that carries itself, up to a point. Many artists and athletes obsess on their practice and training, but really they need to be made aware of the fact that sometimes a two week vacation -- leaving their mind alone to process without the irritation of new inputs -- could be enough to take them up to new levels of performance.

 

[Grantywanty]

I really think there is more to the mind then our conscious thinking and even then our dreaming. Both Conscious Thinking and Dreaming involve a kind of linear single-pointed focus of Awareness upon one particular line of mental activity. But what really happens, I suppose, is that the Mind is churning even while there is no particular 'light' of awareness, shall we say.

I agree. Sometimes I respond to someone I disagree with, as I did above, with the intention of perhaps creating a minimal shift or slighter greater degree of flexibility in their position. To state my full difference of opinion sometimes seems like a bad idea.

I actually think what we call dreaming can be a wide range of activities some simultaneous, some quite different from each other. Learning from the day. Processing emotional issues. Working through the day's triggers. Creative activity. Associational learning - not simply rehashing things taken in during the day.

And some other things that are less commonly accepted as possible.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

You call it 'weeding out weak memories', but it sounds as though the stronger memories are being reinforced. There is a difference of emphasis, is there not? The one is not being destroyed. Can you tell me that these memories are actually eradicated? No. But the stronger memories only advance by comparison.

The memory of what you ate for lunch 5 years ago to this day has been erradicated... but the process of weeding doesn't necessarily eliminate the memory itself. It starves the connections. Whether the actual information is eliminated and how quickly it happens depends on where the pieces of information exist in the brain (areas of long term storage, medium term, or short term storage). An area with weak or no connections and faster updates (ex. short term storeage) is going to be reused for other information. In any case, the only reinforcement that might occur is if a memory gains storage in a longer term part of memory; however, the weeding process doesn't appear to encompass that function.

And, again, we seem to have somebody whose mind is stuck in some textbook of quantification theory -- Scientists trying to explain away phenomena on the bases of very slendor categories of quantification. They don't know anything, but are only trying to apply REASONABLE MATERIALIST doctrines in order to negate Life and Meaning.

As long as you place your hope in mysteries then the process of objectification and science are always going to be seen as a negating threat. In other words, it is your own doing and it is exclusively your problem.

What of Visionary Dreams that have nothing to do with any previously lived experience?

What about them? It's hallucination. The electrical pulses in your brain activate your consciousness to varying degrees and interpretation + feedback kick in.

Science claims a great deal of ground simply by ignoring most experience and phenomena.

Science asks reality 'what', 'when', 'where', and 'how'. It also separates the objective from subjective and ultimately will objectify the subjective to understand it.

Centuries ago Science had endeavored to become Empirical. Now, in order to keep the math simpler, most empiricals are flattly rejected.

If dreaming were rejected, then the information I presented would not have been discovered. Clearly you are incorrect.

So we are foisted upon with Hypothesis where dreams are at first random,

Fortunately with the advent of better technology we can see that dreams explicitly occur during sleep periods of the elctrical pulsing; hence, that hypothesis doesn't quite stand.

...despite all their meaning message and extraordinary detail, and then they are Memory Managers that never seem to have much to do with anything anyone actually remembers, but time and time again go forward into Creation and Inspiration.

I think you are confusing the difference between the dreams and the cause of dreams. The cause dreams is memory management. Dreams content is a hallucinatory side effect. Whether you find value, inspipiration, creativity in the hallucination is up to you; however, it is a hallucination nonetheless. The events experienced are not actually happening external to your brain.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

When you describe the process you are describing learning.

It's part of the learning process but is not the learning process as a whole. A huge part of learning takes place while not sleeping.

Yet you call it hallucination, a word with negative characteristics.

Thats what dream content is. If there is a problem with some people's association with the word then they might want to seek some help in dealing with their issue.

 

[Reiku]

''Thats is not entirely correct. Dreams (i.e. a form of natural human hallucination) occur when the brain is weeding out weak memories by pulsing electrical activity across the brain at decreasing strength with longer intervals in between pulses. Weaker connections are starved while stronger ones survive.''

This is more accurate. It best to imagine the brain as weeding out weak memories... a way to imagine this is by saying that the brain replayes certain events that happened during the day or even during the week. I believe that it is a function tat regenerates the brain - rewinding the past events.

 

[grover]

The events experienced are not actually happening external to your brain.

That applies to all experience.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

That applies to all experience.

It must be hard to feed yourself then.

 

[grover]

When you hold an apple in your hand what you are actually experiencing is not the apple itself but a mental recreation. Just as when you are dreaming it is a mental recreation. The apple as we experience it, whether dream or not is not the thing itself but out minds. Ultimately we only experience our minds.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

When you hold an apple in your hand what you are actually experiencing is not the apple itself but a mental recreation. Just as when you are dreaming it is a mental recreation. The apple as we experience it, whether dream or not is not the thing itself but out minds. Ultimately we only experience our minds.

If a mental representation has a 1:1 correspondence with the apple then the source of the stimulus is external. The source of stimulus for dreams is internal.

 

[Leo Volont]

Great.

We have a bunch of Materialists arguing about how many Atoms can dance on the head of a pin.

(oh, for the terribly young, let me explain my quip... as the High Middle Ages was being infected by Religious Scholasticism that would evolve eventually into the very skepticism which would destroy Civilization, some of the more spiritually minded of the Religious Orders complained that the Schools were being taken over by a class of Intellectuals who could not see much past arguing about 'how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin'. Now it is that the Modern Scholastic has replaced the old Angels with a new set of gargon -- spinning hypothesis after hypothesis meant only to confirm a Sterile Materialism while ignoring all of the actual episteological/spiritual content of the Dreams themselves.)

 

[grover]

Crunchy,
I am not denying that when you are awake and holding an apple that there isn't some objectively existing phenomenon. I'm just pointing out that the apple you are experiencing isn't the apple itself but a mental recreation of it (just like the dream apple).