spanking

Oh I agree! Now that I have been visiting for the last two weeks I am starting to believe that she can't implement ANY form of discipline correctly! We were in the car yesterday and Ryan told her to "shut up" for that she told Ryan he was not going to get hot cocoa, later at the coffee place she gave him hot cocoa!!! I asked why and she said because she did not want to be mean! She not just sparing the rod she sparing everything! Spoiling a child is not about give them to much its about giving in to the child when they don't deserve it. If a child does something you don't want them to do you must teach them otherwise! If you give in or let them escape punishment then your a failure as a parent! Sure love is not conditional but tough love isn't either!

Now as for spanking I still don't see what wrong with it, but I no long have evidence that its necessary, all that seems needed is unrelenting discipline, sure whacking a child on the butt or heel may be quicker and easier then tying them down or locking them in a closet as I recommend to Ryan's mother once, but for the love of god do something!!!
 
Well put. Hopefully she will figure this out before her creation of Ryan the Monster is complete. If my kid told me to shut up there’d be a lot more than omission of hot cocoa in return. I doubt I’d hear it again.
 
zanket,

Well put. Hopefully she will figure this out before her creation of Ryan the Monster is complete. If my kid told me to shut up there’d be a lot more than omission of hot cocoa in return. I doubt I’d hear it again.


It seems to me that it would depend on the child. For example, if "Ryan" is having a problem with physical aggression which his mother is trying to tame, then allowing him to express himself in words, regardless of how inappropriate it comes across, is a good first step. That he's expressing himself in words instead of hitting is a good thing. When a child has a temperment like "Ryan's" which is prone to physical violence, it's not easy for them to curb their behavior. We should pick our battles with them carefully and take it one step at a time. This particular child telling his parent to shut up is far more civilized than him hitting her. Although by 6 years-old his physical aggression should have been tamed already, it's never too late. With a child like "Ryan" - once you've decided to work with him on curbing his physical aggression, coming down on him for rude or abusive "language" should come later; after he demonstrates that he is emotionally content with verbal self-expression. Encouraging and then "allowing" verbal expression in lieu of hitting, even when negative at first, is an important first step in taming aggression in children.
 
WellCooked,

Although I would have addressed this type of behavior at a much earlier age, I'd fight the "physical aggression" not "the child" if you know what I mean.

I'd pay attention when Ryan was being well-behaved and make a point of praising him for his good behavior.

I'd make sure that he ate well-balanced meals and that he got plenty of rest. (Too much sugar and/or not enough sleep is bound to make a bear out of a young child). I'd spend some relaxing time reading to him at night.

At 6, unless Ryan is mentally retarded, he should be able to understand my words. I'd look for opportunities to make it clear to him, in small doses , that physical force is an unacceptable way to resolve anger, frustration, etc... I'd encourage him to talk rather than hit and I'd make sure that he had some safe outlets where he could get rid of some of his physical aggression. I'd take walks with him, run around a track with him, take him to the park, play ball with him, ride bikes with him...

I'd talk with Ryan about conflicts that I might be involved in and explain to him how I handled them without hitting.

Television can be used as a tool. I'd watch TV with Ryan and if we should happen to see one person on a show hit another, I'd use that opportunity to make it clear to him that what was happening was "wrong" - that hurting another person was wrong. If we were walking down the street together and witnessed two people fist fighting, I'd repeat the message.

If I saw him hit his sister or another child, I'd rescue the victim and then try to find out what set Ryan off... Get him to talk about how he felt. I'd let him know that whatever he was "feeling" was O.K. and then get him to think about how he would have felt if he was in the other child's shoes; how he would have felt if he was the one being hurt, physically. I'd suggest other ways that he could handle the situation in the future so that nobody gets hurts physically. Again, I'd use the opportunity to make it clear to him that hitting other people is not acceptable. Once I was certain that he "understood" that what he was doing was "wrong" - in a clear and calm manner, I'd warn him of consequences if the behavior was repeated. I'd be sure that the consequence was appropriate for Ryan's age and managable for me to follow through with.

If he took a swipe at me, I'd repeat it again. "We do not hit other people!" I'd teach by example by keeping my hands off Ryan no matter how frustrated I might get with him.

If he hit again, I would surely follow through with the consequence.

Spending time with Ryan to "correct" his aggressive behavior would be time-consuming in the short-run but well worth it in the long run. I'd be loving, firm, fair, respectful, trustworthy and consistent towards Ryan. Sooner or later, he would learn to respect and "accept" my word as the "law" and he would have the tools he needed to become a more emotionally mature, law-abiding citizen.
 
Eddie,

Oh man they do all of that already in eerie detail and accuracy to how you explained it! The only difference is that they don't have a TV, that all! They have been doing everything you said since the beginning, and he still turned out a tyrant. :(

No offence Eddie as your strategy sounds perfect and totally benevolent, but I have seen it fail on a perfectly health and very intelligent child, and would not consider it if I was (god forbid) raising children. Not that I disagree with rewarding good behavior and explaining things first, but when it comes to bad behavior I would be a shrew disciplinarian that would be diligent, relentless and will use what ever means legally allowed to discipline my children if needed.
 
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WellCooked,

Oh man they do all of that already in eerie detail and accuracy to how you explained it! The only difference is that they don't have a TV, that all! They have been doing everything you said since the beginning, and he still turned out a tyrant.

According to some posts about Ryan's life "they" do not do all of that already. For example, in addition to not having a televsion in the house, Ryan has been hit in the face by an extremely angry parent (at least once that you witnessed) and the same parent issues idle threats (she warns him of consequences and then does not follow through with them). It sounds like "they" might be promoting a world of extremes for Ryan. Such a world creates aggressive behavior in children.
 
Eddie,

Were all humen and make mistakes, now what your saying is that if I were using your stratgy and got angry at any time and slaped my kid upside the head just once it would all be ruined? As for Idel threats you said nothing of punishments what so ever.
 
WellCooked,

Were all humen and make mistakes, now what your saying is that if I were using your stratgy and got angry at any time and slaped my kid upside the head just once it would all be ruined?


No, that's not what I'm saying. You should never hit a child in anger and you should certainly never aim for the head. If you do, you should admit that what you did was wrong and apologize to the child immediately. If it happens again, or if you hit them hard enough to leave a mark, you should seek professional help. If, as an adult, you can't control your impulses then don't expect a 6 year old to be able to do any better and certainly don't hit them because they can't.

As for Idel threats you said nothing of punishments what so ever.

Here is what I said about consequences:

Once I was certain that he "understood" that what he was doing was "wrong" - in a clear and calm manner, I'd warn him of consequences if the behavior was repeated. I'd be sure that the consequence was appropriate for Ryan's age and managable for me to follow through with.

If he took a swipe at me, I'd repeat it again. "We do not hit other people!" I'd teach by example by keeping my hands off Ryan no matter how frustrated I might get with him.

If he hit again, I would surely follow through with the consequence.
 
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