Sorry

Okay I'll just give 2 quick examples of parts of the Bible which just really put me off.

If you suspect your wife is cheating, you shall bring her to a priest, who will mix a potion of barley, water, and dust, which the woman shall drink. If she’s cheating, her stomach will swell. (Numbers 5:11-20)

---- And the punishment you ask??? Having rocks thrown at you smashing in your head, breaking your face, snapping your bones, until slowly and eventually you come to an agonizing painful death.

So make sure you kill all women who get bloated after eating.

Another example:

King David raped Bathsheba who was married and he soon had her husband murdered. (2 Samuel 11) God responded by killing David’s child who was the result of the rape. To punish the father God kills an innocent child? The child of a woman who had just been raped, and had just lost her husband. ---------- How can modern day Christians be anti-abortion, when their God is in the business of killing unborn babies to punish murdering rapists?-----

But more than these kinds of verses, I'm just sick of making excuses for the Bible. You've got one part of the Bible that says to kill disobedient children, and then you've got Jesus' parable about the disobedient child that took his inheritance and left, spent it on parties and drugs, then came back and the father welcomed him back with open arms and threw a party in celebration.

And all I did when I believed the Bible was make excuses for contradictions which are blatant. Sure you can conduct some impressive mental gymnastics and somehow soften the blow of a lot of the contradictions, but for what purpose? Half the explanations you hear are just people kidding themselves.

And that's what I realized, I was just kidding myself.
 
answers said:
Yeah I left Bible college after 1 year. And now I'm starting my second year studying Psychology at University. I figured that most problems people have and go to church for, are simply emotional/psychological problems. So why not tackle these problems using proven scientifically tested methods, rather then say 'lets pray about it'.
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Our understanding of the human mind is in its infancy. I wouldn't put much faith in psychology,either.
 
I'd disagree. How many years have you studied psychology for? How many times have you had a session with a psychologist? What case studies and experimental research do you base your opinion on? What psychological councelling methods have you investigated? Cognitive behavioural psychology? Behavourism? Psycodynamic? Neurological Psychology? Human needs psychology?

I have no faith in Psychology because faith isn't required. It is simply the practice of implementing the most statistically successful scientifically researched methods for treating psychological disorders.
 
answers said:
I'd disagree. How many years have you studied psychology for? How many times have you had a session with a psychologist? What case studies and experimental research do you base your opinion on? What psychological councelling methods have you investigated? Cognitive behavioural psychology? Behavourism? Psycodynamic? Neurological Psychology? Human needs psychology?

I have no faith in Psychology because faith isn't required. It is simply the practice of implementing the most statistically successful scientifically researched methods for treating psychological disorders.
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I've had no sessions with a psychologist, I wouldn't trust their judgement over my own. I took a year of psychology as an undergrad (I was a Biology major in undergrad). It was interesting and, no doubt, had some valid insights. But a lot of it was supposition piled upon supposition. Freudian analysis was the worst. Very interesting, maybe even correct occasionally, but mostly just psychobabble.
 
Agreed Freudian psychology is a waste of time, that's why only a very very small number of psychologists use it. I think 90% or more of psychologists actually use cognitive behavioural therapy. It is based on the supposition that the brain is like a computer. Stimulous comes into the brain, the brain processes it, and then the body reacts. Personally I don't really think much of the psychology taught at uni is very practical from what I've seen. But then again I'm only up to my second year, and it's not until 3rd year you actually start to learn councelling methods.

I actually really like human needs psychology. laugh if you want but I reckon Anthony Robbins ideas on the 6 human needs are pretty spot on, very practical and very quick to implement.

This is the psychology I love and want to one day master and help people with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpc-t-Uwv1I
 
Adstar wrote: "You where asked to post a contradiction. The above is not a contradiction. It is something you mealy disagree with. Therefore the above shows your disagreement with God, not a contradiction."

I actually said that these were things that put me off of Christianity. I really couldn't care less what you asked for.



Adstar wrote: "You went to a bible college for how long? Show me the scriptures that state that david "raped" Bathsheba. Otherwise you are a false accuser, a liar."

David would be judged as a 'power rapist' by a court today. Using a position of power in order to make someone have sex with you. Modern day scholars have come to the conclusion that Bathsheba did not sin, as she HAD to do what the King DEMANDED. Power rape. Also Bathsheba's husband was one of David's mighty men, named so in the list. This man was like a brother to David, fought beside him in battle and saved his life countless times. David then raped his wife and sent his friend to his death.

As for the false accuser and liar stuff, keep your pants on. I went to Bible college for a year. I worked in a church for 6 months. I was baptised at 17yrs old. I have been going to church my whole life. I prayed every day. I repented and humbly asked God to forgive my sins many times over the years. I believed in the Triune God. I evangelized in the streets. I worked for student life at the university evangelizing to people. I held bible study groups. I preached numerous times at church. I volunteered and helped out the church many times. I even attended an apparant exorcism (nothing happened) - You can say I wasn't genuine, but you'd be wrong.



Adstar wrote: "The Baby went to be with God in eternity, that’s not a punishment for the baby that’s a wonderful early mark for the Baby. The ones who suffer loss when a baby dies are their parents. eg David."

I hope you extend this teaching to people who abort babies. That aborted babies are blessed as they go straight to God. Heck I would have loved to of heard that message a couple years ago so I could have told my sister that when she lost 2 children at birth that she shouldn't cry or be heartbroken because her children were with God and it was such a blessing that they'd died inside of her and she had to give birth to dead children. Oh I'm sure she would have been so happy. And your right the parents do suffer when they lose a baby. But I'm pretty sure David wasn't the only parent (have you not yet realized it takes 2 to tango?). It was also Bathsheba's baby. So the woman who was raped and had her husband murdered, must then suffer the loss of her child as well. You can think that is okay, and good, but your kidding yourself.



Adstar wrote: "You where not called upon to make excuses for the Bible. You making excuses was an act of rebellion against God. No wonder He has given you over to disbelief. You never truly believed Him in the first place, did you. And once again the above example does not show a contradiction. All you did above is show your opinion of what happened and Gods response to what happened."

Yeah, me justifying my belief in God was a real rebellion against God, I'm such a sinful prick aren't I....quickly pick up the stones oh righteous one.

Also it is truly amazing your ability to accuse me of never beliving in God, even though you know next to nothing about me, nothing about any of my experiences, nothing about any of my prayers, nothing about any of my feelings or deep thoughts over the years, nothing about what I've done, nothing about what I've learnt....no really you know nothing yet some how you feel free to judge and accuse me. Good on you, now that's an exceptional level of arrogance, truly impressive.

Yes all I did was show my opinion on what I thought was contradiction. I really don't see too much of a problem with this though......as it is what I said I was going to do. BUT all you've shown is your opinion on what you thought my opinion was!!!! ....It's almost like...dare I say it...this forum is actually designed for the open sharing of peoples opinions!


Adstar wrote: "The parable of the lost Son. The Son was not disobedient. He did not steal His inheritance did he? No he asked his father openly for it and it was given to him. He went out and wasted his inheritance of course and he was very unwise. But he was not disobedient to his father. "

It's good to see you can tell me I'm wrong without studying any of the cultural background to the passage. What the son did in asking for his inheritance before the father died was culturally EXTREMELY insulting to the father. But again, it is good to see that you don't let your ignorance of the context of a scripture stop you from holding stubborn and accusing views on it.



adstar wrote "What one???? All you have done is brought forward things you personally disagree with to bring forth to accuse God with. But no contradictions yet."

Yes third time you said that. And yes....they were things I personally disagree with....that's why I said these are things I personally disagree with.............


Adstar wrote: "Yeah you where just kidding your self then that you where a true follower of the Messiah Jesus and your kidding yourself now that you have justification in rejecting the Love of the truth."

Again thank you for judging me. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. You are so wise.


---- Also thanks Q for addressing some of Adstar's post. I think you got it spot on when you said that all I really did was stop getting excited about something that didn't really make any sense. Not your use of words :p but still spot on.
 
lol @ adstar. Okay so let me get this right, your the poor christian getting picked on, and I'm the bastard anti-christ. While it was you who came here and attacked me.

lol talk about having it both ways. One second you are an accusing name calling finger pointing attacker, and then the next moment you are some poor matyr.

And I think congratulations are in order for deciding for yourself that David didn't rape bathsheba. Firstly you threw away my opinion on the matter because you didn't agree. And then when it was revealed that courts would have ruled it as rape it was rejected because you held a different view. And then when it was revealed that Biblical Evangelical scholars who have studied the scriptures for a minimum of 6 years full time and most likely run a church on top of that, held the same opinion as I put forward, it was also promptly rejected as you disagreed.

You aren't open to reason because you think you know everything already. And yet you call me arrogant???

I love how you need to twist all my words to make my faith sound less genuine. You think I was boasting about my credentials, have you never read what the apostle paul wrote about himself when trying to justify his faith? Please READ YOUR BIBLE. If you are going to be a Christian you need to study it, you are just going to embarass yourself otherwise. And if you've ever actually studied at a theological institution, you would know that as a Baptist (which I was) we believe once saved always saved. That once you should pray for salvation. HOWEVER it is recommended and good to come to the Lord and ask for forgiveness for the things you have done wrong time and time again, even though you know you are saved. Because in coming and asking for forgiveness you are submitting to God, which is the key to sanctification. But I'm sure you already know that the original language refers to salvation as being a once and for all thing, and sanctification as being an ongoing process, and that the way I prayed was due to a desire for sanctification, not salvation.

But you know everything, I really do appologize for disagreeing with you, you poor poor persecuted theist. Makes me laugh though, that you think I and other people actually attack you and dislike you because you are a Christian. I went to church tonight and then hung out with all my mates afterwards (like I do every single week for the past MANY MANY years) just playing UNO and laughing and chatting at MC Donalds after church. I go to the Pastors house and cook him and his family dinner because I'm friends with his kids (they're my age). Dude I love hanging out with Christians, a majority of my friends are Christians. I have nothing against their faith, I never have a go at them about it, I never call them stupid. I have been friends...very close friends with all these christians for close to 10 years. My best friend since pre-school for the past 20 years is a Christian. It is not that I have anything against Christians. It is simply that I have something against you. Because your an annoying wanker.
 
answers said:
Thanks for the replys, I appreciate the encouragment. Just spent ages tonight poking holes in the Bible talking to Christians. It really is useless to argue or debate with them, they'll agree with your questions not being answered, but then still hold onto their faith.... how can you have fundamental questions unanswered yet still believe?

What makes humans survive is their questioning mind. You don't open up a pack of panadol for headaches and take every single tablet in the packet. Take enough and you die. Instead you question, look for information, then make your informed decision. With Christianity it is like they make their decision then look for information that supports it.

It just doesn't make sense.
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It makes me sick. It is ignorance to have such faith in the face of fundamental unanswered questsions. I couldn't live that way, I tried, and it makes me sick that I put myself through that.

Embrace what little pieces of the truth you pick up along the way. From a Christian perspective, I would think the religion would be stronger if the Christians would fess up to the weakness of the Bible as an instruction manual. Perhaps they would not be distracted, and look to the source of their truth and become better people on a journey to enlightenment. So many Christians have arrived at understanding (they think), and they look at life as though today doesn't exist. That nothing we do in this world matters, everything is focused on getting their asses into heaven that they don't know what is real. This world is a dream to the average Christian, a nightmare even. All I can say, is that they need to look for God and quit worrying about getting into heaven. They would be more beneficial to society to get real and realize what it really means to have faith....which is to have faith in something that you may not believe.
 
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