Something I noticed about Buddhism

[Michael]

No matter if I meet Singaporean Buddhists or Japanese Buddhists or read about Tibetian Buddhists - they always give me an impression of openmindedness not found in most monotheism. I beleive it is because their philosophy is simply superior.

Here's an excellent example:

Always stressing that the Buddha's own words should be thrown out if they are shown by scientific inquiry to be flawed, the Dalai Lama is the rare religious figure who tells people not to get needlessly confused or distracted by religion ("Even without a religion, we can become a good human being"). No believer in absolute truth—he eagerly seeks out Catholics, neuroscientists, even regular travelers to Tibet who can instruct him—he is also the rare Tibetan who will suggest that old Tibet may have contributed in part to its current predicament, the rare Buddhist to tell foreigners not to take up Buddhism but to study within their own traditions, where their roots are deepest.

Notice he says that the Buddha's own words may be flawed and if so toss them out.
Notice his point about people holding to their own traditions and beleifs.

Compare this with Xian evangelism or ideas of "perfect" books.


Michael

 

[Asguard]

michael to be fair it has been thorised that the move to monotheisam was the catilist that lead to science because before you had ONE god and ONE plan you couldnt predict what was going to happen without getting a major headache from trying to work out the interaction BETWEEN gods

So we do owe monotheastic religions SOME credit

 

[cosmictraveler]

So we do owe monotheastic religions SOME credit

How's that? I as yet don't see anything good about them whatsoever. They seperate people more so than uniting them.

 

[S.A.M.]

Until the age of 25, the Dalai Lama ran a theocracy in which 90% of the people were bonded laborers and about 5-10% were outright slaves, the only reason he stopped is because he ran away into exile. I would pay more attention to what people do, rather than their PC comments. Take a trip to Dharmsala, you won't see a more close minded group, that in over 50 years has not assimilated with the "natives"

And yeah they pretty much ignore the Buddha when he provides nothing to cope with their realities

 

[Myles]

How's that? I as yet don't see anything good about them whatsoever. They seperate people more so than uniting them.

Credit where it's due. You are overlooking the role of the Catholic church is supporting Galileos scientific endeavours. If it weren't for rhe church's efforts, the sun would still be going around the earth.Or is it the other way ?

 

[S.A.M.]

Credit where it's due. You are overlooking the role of the Catholic church is supporting Galileos scientific endeavours. If it weren't for rhe church's efforts, the sun would still be going around the earth.Or is it the other way ?

If I recall correctly, the "scientists" of the time also did not support Galileo.

Consider these facts:

1. Neither Galileo, nor any other scientist, was put to death by the medieval Church. Giordano Bruno, a 17th-century Dominican, was indeed condemned by the Inquisition, not for his scientific views, but for preaching a quirky, New Age-ish view called hermeticism, which was only incidentally connected to heliocentrism.

2. The Catholic authorities of Galileo’s day had little trouble with heliocentrism per se. Many of the leading Catholic scientists were actually Copernicans. Copernicus’s treatise on heliocentrism had been in print for seventy years prior to Galileo’s conflict with the Church.

3. Galileo remained a devout and loyal Catholic until the end of his life. He held no animosity toward the Church over his conflict with Church authorities.

4. Most important, the conflict between Galileo and the Church took place in the context of the Protestant Reformation, a context that is almost always omitted from popular accounts of Galileo’s trial. The key issue in this conflict was not heliocentrism per se, but the authority of the individual Believer to interpret Scripture. Galileo’s argument that scientists should interpret the Bible to conform to their scientific views was close to Luther’s view that the Believer should be his own interpreter of Scripture. It was Lutheranism, not heliocentrism, that alarmed the Church leaders.

Galileo, in other words, was caught up in a larger, theological and ecclesiastical controversy. He was not simply a truth-seeking scientists going up against a bigoted Establishment.

http://organizationsandmarkets.com/2007/01/18/the-galileo-legend/

 

[Myles]

If I recall correctly, the "scientists" of the time also did not support Galileo.

It is not unusual for someone who is ahead of the field to lack support. But the church threatened him, an old man, with torture. He was even shown the instruments of torture. So I suppose that's ok in your book. Go join Pastor Phelps; he would really have enjoyed himself in Galileos time.

 

[S.A.M.]

It is not unusual for someone who is ahead of the field to lack support. But the church threatened him, an old man, with torture. He was even shown the instruments of torture. So I suppose that's ok in your book. Go join Pastor Phelps; he would really have enjoyed himself in Galileos time.

So it was an intra-religious squabble. The fact remains that many of the Christians were Copernicans and as stated, his theory had been in publication for some time when Galileo got into it.

There is another view (same link comments) that Galileo was prosecuted for his attitude:

My understanding of the conflict, derived from reading original documents and correspondence, is that Galileo was punished by the Pope for his lack of charity toward his opponents. Galileo in fact had the better arguments theologically as well as scientifically, knew it, and didn’t hesitate to ram that superiority down his opponents’ throats. He mocked his opponents mercilessly, and called them stupid. The Pope directed him to treat them with courtesy and charity. Galileo followed up by publishing the Dialogue, in which he placed his opponents’ arguments in the mouth of Simplicio (i.e., “Simpleton”) and made them look as silly as possible. This led directly to the Pope’s rebuke. It was a rebuke that was, presumably, based on the Pope’s concern for Galileo’s soul and his desire for comity in the Church, and probably had nothing to do with the Pope’s opinion on heliocentrism, which there is reason to believe he supported.

The similarity between Galileo’s theological arguments, which were in fact taken almost word for word from St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, and Luther’s was a bad argument made by Galileo’s fundamentalist opponents. I don’t believe the Pope ever endorsed either the theology or science of Galileo’s opponents, rather he was pushing for a more civil theological debate and for obedience to his pastoral directives.

It is impossible to understand the Galileo issue except as an intra-Church squabble among the faithful. To represent Galileo as a “secularist” is quite unfaithful to history, and would certainly have shocked him, since he was one of the most devout and theologically sophisticated lay Catholics of his day, and a close friend to many senior churchmen.

 

[greenberg]

And yeah they pretty much ignore the Buddha when he provides nothing to cope with their realities

The Buddha does provide for coping with reality, however painful that reality might be.
The problem is that relatively few people actually have a proper training in Buddhism.
There is a trend in traditionally Buddhist countries to dismiss the teachings on the Four Noble Truths and karma as "stuff for the beginners", and instead to focus on a few more or less fancy rituals and practices. And those really cannot provide strategies for coping with a demanding reality.

 

[greenberg]

No matter if I meet Singaporean Buddhists or Japanese Buddhists or read about Tibetian Buddhists - they always give me an impression of openmindedness not found in most monotheism. I beleive it is because their philosophy is simply superior.

Here's an excellent example:

Always stressing that the Buddha's own words should be thrown out if they are shown by scientific inquiry to be flawed, the Dalai Lama is the rare religious figure who tells people not to get needlessly confused or distracted by religion ("Even without a religion, we can become a good human being"). No believer in absolute truth—he eagerly seeks out Catholics, neuroscientists, even regular travelers to Tibet who can instruct him—he is also the rare Tibetan who will suggest that old Tibet may have contributed in part to its current predicament, the rare Buddhist to tell foreigners not to take up Buddhism but to study within their own traditions, where their roots are deepest.

Notice he says that the Buddha's own words may be flawed and if so toss them out.
Notice his point about people holding to their own traditions and beleifs.

What is the source of this passage in blue?

 

[cosmictraveler]

Credit where it's due. You are overlooking the role of the Catholic church is supporting Galileos scientific endeavours. If it weren't for rhe church's efforts, the sun would still be going around the earth.Or is it the other way ?

Actually Copernicus solved that one years before Galileo did. And the Arabs solved that before he did!


Another thing is that the Catholic church put Galileo in prison for his views which conflicted with the God point of view that the Earth was the center of everything! So the religion held back advancements once again.

Nicolaus Copernicus (February 19, 1473 – May 24, 1543) was the first astronomer to formulate a scientifically based heliocentric cosmology that displaced the Earth from the center of the universe. His epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and the defining epiphany that began the Scientific Revolution.

Although Greek, Indian and Muslim savants had published heliocentric hypotheses centuries before Copernicus, his publication of a scientific theory of heliocentrism, demonstrating that the motions of celestial objects can be explained without putting the Earth at rest in the center of the universe, stimulated further scientific investigations, and became a landmark in the history of modern science that is known as the Copernican Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

 

[Myles]

Actually Copernicus solved that one years before Galileo did. And the Arabs solved that before he did!


Another thing is that the Catholic church put Galileo in prison for his views which conflicted with the God point of view that the Earth was the center of everything! So the religion held back advancements once again.

Nicolaus Copernicus (February 19, 1473 – May 24, 1543) was the first astronomer to formulate a scientifically based heliocentric cosmology that displaced the Earth from the center of the universe. His epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and the defining epiphany that began the Scientific Revolution.

Although Greek, Indian and Muslim savants had published heliocentric hypotheses centuries before Copernicus, his publication of a scientific theory of heliocentrism, demonstrating that the motions of celestial objects can be explained without putting the Earth at rest in the center of the universe, stimulated further scientific investigations, and became a landmark in the history of modern science that is known as the Copernican Revolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus

Gotcha, ha, ha.

Now please explain to SAM that the Catholic church treated Galileo badly.She won't take it from me. She keeps wanrting to bring other irrelevant matters into the discussion.

 

[S.A.M.]

Yeah wiki beats research of personal correspondence hollow. Yay!!!

So how does cosmic explain the fact that Galileo was a devout follower of the same church until he died?

Was he a sucker?

 

[Myles]

Yeah wiki beats research of personal correspondence hollow. Yay!!!

So how does cosmic explain the fact that Galileo was a devout follower of the same church until he died?

Was he a sucker?

There is nothing to explain. The fact that he knew what he did didn't make him an atheist. Why shold it have done so ? You are clutching at straws,

For some reason, like many others, you insist on conflating science with atheism.

Don't forget that he lived under house arrest at a time when nobody dared oppose the church, which ruled by fear.

 

[S.A.M.]

There is nothing to explain. The fact that he knew what he did didn't make him an atheist. Why shold it have done so ? You are clutching at straws,

For some reason, like many others, you insist on conflating science with atheism.

Don't forget that he lived under house arrest at a time when nobody dared oppose the church, which ruled by fear.

Considering that he himself had no grievances with the church, its odd that so many people use him to defame the church.

I believe he would be quite shocked at the notion.

 

[draqon]

I must say that the picture SAM posted clearly shows that these people have stepped away from Buddhism, and not because Buddhism lacks understanding of their situation and how to cope with it.

 

[Myles]

Considering that he himself had no grievances with the church, its odd that so many people use him to defame the church.

I believe he would be quite shocked at the notion.

Nobody can say what went on in his mind, Conjecture is useless. But I blame the church, as did the chuirch itself ,when the last Pope issued a formal apology.

 

[tresbien]

on the news i saw some postrating to idols.why


INTRODUCTION

Many people become excited at the idea of becoming "different" or more "original." In almost every society since the dawn of history, some individuals have tried to stand out and draw attention to themselves by their life style, clothing, hairstyles, or distinctive way of speaking. They've managed to stir up public reaction and attract interest at the same time.

In recent years, Western societies have seen the emergence of an unusual current that draws attention to itself by its rather strange life style. It's made up of individuals who want to attract attention by adopting Eastern culture, beliefs, and philosophies-of which the most important is Buddhism.

Throughout the world, but especially in America and Europe, some individuals have been intrigued by Buddhism, spurred on mostly by the superstitious, secret, and awesome qualities they perceive in this religion. Generally, those who adopt Buddhism do so not because they believe in the logic of its philosophy, but because they're attracted by its "mystical" atmosphere, drawn to this superstition because it is presented to them as far more different and awesome than any other philosophy they encounter in their normal lives. For example, the story of how Buddhism came to be is related to them as a fantastic, mystic legend. Books and films about Buddhism depict Buddha as the source of a great mystery. Likewise, Buddhist priests are presented as possessors of secret, arcane knowledge. They fascinate Westerners with their exotic robes, shaved heads, style of worship, elaborate ceremonies, dwelling places, meditation, yoga and other such strange practices.

For these reasons, Buddhism is seized upon as an important tool by people who want to demonstrate that they are different from others in their society, and who want to project the image of having discovered of a valuable secret. If an ordinary person suddenly shaves his head one day, puts on a brightly-colored robe and begins to teach Buddhist doctrine using mystical words he never uttered before, he will certainly attract curious attention and be thought of as "original."


The eyes painted on foursides of this Buddhist temple in Katmandu in Nepal symbolize the idea that Buddha sees everything at every moment. At the foundation of Buddhist superstition lies the idea that Buddha is an idol with superhuman powers.
(Right) Shwedagon Pagoda, the famous Buddhist temple in Rangoon, Mayanmar.





A Buddhist statue from Nepal, supposedly representing wisdom and skill.

A number of celebrities have adopted Buddhism for similar purposes. They make speeches in Tibetan Buddhist robes to appear different from others, drawing attention to themselves perhaps to become even better known to their public. They visit Buddhist temples accompanied by Buddhist priests and also make propaganda for the Buddhist religion.

You may have already learned a considerable amount about Buddhism and gained a general knowledge of it through both written and visual media. In this book, we'll examine Buddhism's superstitious character in the light of the Qur'an and let you see clearly this superstitious religion's more perverse aspects.

When we consider Buddhism's appearance, its scriptures, general beliefs, style of worship in the light of the Qur'an, we begin to see that its basic philosophy is founded on very deviant doctrines. Indeed, its worship contains strange practices leading its devotees to worship idols of stone and clay. As a belief, Buddhism is contrary to logic and intelligence. Countries where it has been adopted have mixed it with their own idolatrous ideas, traditions and local customs, joining it with myths and deviant ideas until it has evolved into a totally godless philosophy.

When fused with Brahmanism, Hinduism, Shintoism and other idolatrous Eastern religions, Buddhism has assumed a much darker form. Those who adopt this religion not because they believe it, but because they're attracted by the "secrets" of the Far East or just to draw attention to themselves, should realize that Buddhism contains perverse doctrines that can lead them to deny God, associate handmade idols with Him and lead a life of superstition. To ignore Buddhism's mindless aspects and espouse it just to be trendy and go along with others will result in great loss.

Those who make propaganda on behalf of Buddhism often present it as a means of salvation. Those who long to escape from a materialist society's hard, disputatious culture- along with its worries, anxieties, quarrels, pitiless rivalry, selfishness and falsehoods-resort to Buddhism as the way to achieve peace of mind, security, tolerance and a fulfilling life. But Buddhism is not, as it is generally thought to be, a belief that brings contentment. On the contrary, those who are taken into Buddhism are often drawn into a deep pessimism. Even people with a considerable level of education and modern worldview will become individuals who see nothing wrong with begging with their bowls in hand, who believe that in their next lives, human beings may be reborn as mice or cattle, and who expect help from idols carved from stone or cast in bronze. For these people, Buddhism's deviant beliefs inflict serious psychological damage. In countries where Buddhism is widespread, or in regions inhabited by many Buddhist priests, pessimism and gloominess are clearly prominent.



"… By His Words God wipes out the false and confirms the truth."
(Qur'an 42:24)


One basic reason for this is the laziness and indolence that Buddhism inculcates in its adherents. Because it lacks any faith in an eternal afterlife, Buddhism does not urge its devotees to be better or develop themselves, to beautify their environment, or to advance culturally. Islam always urges its adherents to seek out and apply themselves to what is better and more beautiful. Islam's dynamic moral teaching requires people to research and learn, to develop themselves and be useful to their communities. In one verse of the Qur'an (35: 28), God says that "Only those of His servants with knowledge stand truly in awe of Him."

The only way to find true happiness and contentment in this world-to escape every kind of pessimism, unhappiness, and pitiless evil-is for people to submit themselves to God, our Creator, and lead lives that will win His approval. Our Lord, the only sovereign of Earth and Heaven has announced that for all people the way of salvation is to embrace the Qur'an, sent down as a guide to the true path. In the Qur'an (14: 1), God affirms, "… this is a Book We have sent down to you so that you can bring mankind from the darkness to the light, by the permission of their Lord, to the Path of the Almighty, the Praiseworthy." Those who believe in idolatrous religious like Buddhism should realize that they have been misguided:


That is God, your Lord, the Truth, and what is there after truth except misguidance? So how have you been distracted? (Qur'an, 10: 32)
http://www.harunyahya.com/buddhism01.php[/

 

[greenberg]

Myles, SAM,

The story of Galieo is definitely interesting and of some importance, but it is really off topic for this thread.

 

[Myles]

Myles, SAM,

The story of Galieo is definitely interesting and of some importance, but it is really off topic for this thread.

Not entirely. I have reason to believe that Galileo was a closet Buddhist.