Some words of wisdom.
- Thread starter Victor E
- Start date
If god created the world,
Then who created god?
God said to his listeners when asked this question: "UHH, I dunno, one day I wasn't, then one day I was....or is or is it will be...sheesh!!! time is always confusing.."
If god has always existed,
Has the universe always existed as well?
"well if time has a beginning then there was no before time.....sounds a bit counter intuitive but hey ...think about it..."
If gods power is unlimited,
Is the universe unlimited as well?
" a bit like saying ; limited by the limit of your imagination hey?"
If the universe is unlimited,
Does god exist within it?
"where else? I just came from nothing and am not interested in going back to nothing...thank you very much"
If god exists within it,
Is he then a part of the universe?
"If the universe is everything that is and I am everything that is and isn't that would make me everything that is or isn't so I guess yes and no can be the only answer"
If god is a part of the universe,
Is he then a part of the creation?
"How can something be created if there is no before creation" Uhmmmm.....I am sorry could you repeat the question?
If god is a part of the creation,
Can he be the creator?
"Can a blade of grass not be a part of the blade of grass? Is a reflection in a mirror a part of the reflector and reflectee?"
And God there upon stood grandly stretched his omni legs and existed the building......satisfied that he had maintained the confusion and mystery that is he...........
Then who created god?
God said to his listeners when asked this question: "UHH, I dunno, one day I wasn't, then one day I was....or is or is it will be...sheesh!!! time is always confusing.."
If god has always existed,
Has the universe always existed as well?
"well if time has a beginning then there was no before time.....sounds a bit counter intuitive but hey ...think about it..."
If gods power is unlimited,
Is the universe unlimited as well?
" a bit like saying ; limited by the limit of your imagination hey?"
If the universe is unlimited,
Does god exist within it?
"where else? I just came from nothing and am not interested in going back to nothing...thank you very much"
If god exists within it,
Is he then a part of the universe?
"If the universe is everything that is and I am everything that is and isn't that would make me everything that is or isn't so I guess yes and no can be the only answer"
If god is a part of the universe,
Is he then a part of the creation?
"How can something be created if there is no before creation" Uhmmmm.....I am sorry could you repeat the question?
If god is a part of the creation,
Can he be the creator?
"Can a blade of grass not be a part of the blade of grass? Is a reflection in a mirror a part of the reflector and reflectee?"
And God there upon stood grandly stretched his omni legs and existed the building......satisfied that he had maintained the confusion and mystery that is he...........
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lol...nice.
BTW why only examine the catholic Doctrine, is this because you are catholic?
i mean why not take a look at Islam, jewdaism or even hindu, buddist or other texts. why be so narrow minded within the subject in which you place your faith.
After all it's all about God and it's all 100% bullshit.
BTW why only examine the catholic Doctrine, is this because you are catholic?
i mean why not take a look at Islam, jewdaism or even hindu, buddist or other texts. why be so narrow minded within the subject in which you place your faith.
After all it's all about God and it's all 100% bullshit.
What I don't understand, is how you guys can argue for a thing that has absolutely now evidence. What do you base your facts on, and how do you know that it's right?
I mean, you can't just google it, can you?
Do you even believe in the catholic doctrine? Because then how do you know it's true? And if your answer is "god told them", god also told women is not equal to men.
Or are you just picking out the good things of the religion, ignoring the bad?
I think the whole thing is a straw man. I strongly disapprove of Lawdog's preaching and evangelising, but he's right. Catholic "doctrine" is actually based on more than a millennium of deep philosophical thought about all of Victor's questions and many more. (More so than Lutheran or Protestant theology, at least in venerability. The biggest problem facing American Christianity today with the unthought-out Fundamentalist views that seem to come more and more to the fore, is that large segments of it seems to have no real theological background to it at all). It can all be dismissed for lack of evidence, but where does that get you, really?
The rationalists spend all their time going on and on and on about "How can you accept something without evidence?" But there is a great deal of stuff that we rationalists accept for which there is no evidence at all, for example the concept that we will or can ultimately find the cause of the Universe, or the Grand Unified Theory, or even (the ultimate mystery) consciousness itself. But precisely these areas need new ways of thinking. And a lot of that thinking has been done by theologists, as well as other philosophers. St. Augustine was asked "What did God do before he created the Universe" and he replied, more or less, "Time is a property of Creation. Therefore there was no "before"". An astonishing insight, if you ask me. Such writings are not to be rejected out of hand just because they come from a theistical perspective. You don't have to accept what they say, but they still have much to teach.
The rationalists spend all their time going on and on and on about "How can you accept something without evidence?" But there is a great deal of stuff that we rationalists accept for which there is no evidence at all, for example the concept that we will or can ultimately find the cause of the Universe, or the Grand Unified Theory, or even (the ultimate mystery) consciousness itself. But precisely these areas need new ways of thinking. And a lot of that thinking has been done by theologists, as well as other philosophers. St. Augustine was asked "What did God do before he created the Universe" and he replied, more or less, "Time is a property of Creation. Therefore there was no "before"". An astonishing insight, if you ask me. Such writings are not to be rejected out of hand just because they come from a theistical perspective. You don't have to accept what they say, but they still have much to teach.
1. - (Read 2)
2. Think about it yourself, what tells us that god was created before universe? Why should god have been created before us? If god came out of nothing, why can't the universe have been created out of nothing as well?
3. My point is that according to some (christians, of course) god created the universe, and many also says that the universe is unlimited, so if it's unlimited, there is no "nothing" which means if the universe was created before god, god must have been created by the universe. And therefore is not a real "god", but just a creation such as the human.
4. So you say he does exist within the universe, then he is also a part of the energy existing within the universe. And therefore also only a part, such as the humans. A large part perhaps, but still only a part. That means that if the universe is destroyed, he will be destroyed as well.
5. If the creator is a part of the creation, he might have been created at the same type as the creation, and is therefore not the real creator.
6. Read 5.
I'm not saying it's not possible to accept something without evidence!
I'm saying that if god could be created out of nothing, then, couldn't universe been created out of nothing?
Same circumstances, but another outcome? How can you tell that the outcome is as you think it is. It might have been another way as well!