Sociopaths

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

well, some people need to experience something to get insight. perhaps you are that type or you won't believe it.

i don't know how many examples i will need to post before the narrow-minded fixation on one particular definition is believed to be the only truth according to "dr.hare".

sociopaths don't have feelings? i lived with one for most of my life so i think i should know more about it. experience over some guy who just probably interviewed some psychotic killers (they tend to be insane). sociopaths are not insane. i think i have more common sense insight.

it's unbelievable how people don't know this. sociopaths are some of the most highly emotional and touchy people that exist. it's just that their emotions tend to be self-serving or about their needs or wants with less consideration for others. this is not an accident, it's a value system. it's a dangerous thing to offend a sociopath as they tend to be very vindictive. oftentimes, you don't even need to offend them on purpose at all as their egos are so overbloated that they get offended easily anyways.

of course they understand boundaries (psychos may not) as well, it's just that they don't respect them when it gets in the way of what they want. they know it's not right but that isn't the point, it's about getting what they want. that's a very easy thing to understand.

my sociopath tortured me from the time i was a child in every way possible and every single day. they, however, did not do that to their own family, friends, or their own children. why would he? he cared for them. again, the basic difference between a sociopath and non is that the sociopath does not care to have a general sense of humanity. this stems from their narcissism so those who they identify most closely are the ones who they may extend the same rights as to themselves by respecting their boundaries but not to those who they see as 'prey'. not all sociopaths are the same and don't fit one particular profile.

let's use a past and well-known example. back in the day and especially slave-traders are sociopaths but that doesn't mean they didn't have a sense of emotions or care for those they chose to care for. even today, there are those who are trafficking humans. that doesn't mean those people don't have friends or family etc that they care for. sociopaths are not exactly like psycopaths (they fit more the definition of those who are insane and literally incapable of feeling empathy or distinguishing). psycopaths because they are insane tend to end up exposing themselves more readily. ironicly they are less guilty than sociopaths because they are totally insane. sociopaths are waaay more dangerous as they do understand emotions and manipulate people. they do things much more covertly and hide their tracks much better as they are better aware.



on the contrary, one would learn a lot to listen to me on this subject as i've "lived" it, experienced it and seen first hand how sociopaths operate and even those who enable them. i could even write a book on the subject.

let me explain what you are missing. this is how a sociopath would deal with an emotion with another person they target as their prey. they do understand those feelings of the other person BUT they are not out to have 'co-feeling' or empathize with them. they are out to use it or to exploit it.

whereas, with those they care for, they are there to have 'co-feeling'.

again, again, again i cannot stress this point more is that sociopaths just don't abide by a general sense of ethics.

Don't make the mistake of assuming the experiences of others. Go and watch the documentary, there's obviously more information on the subject gleaned by experts as their understanding of the condition grows.

If you claim that their emotions tend to be self-serving or about their needs or wants with less consideration for others then in effect you are saying that they cannot empathize as empathy is the opposite of what you describe. I think you should go back and re-read my previous post as you either didn't read the edit or didn't understand it. Having friends does not mean one doesn't mimic emotion, it doesn't mean one is experiencing a depth of emotion which is why professional refer to the disconnect between their responses and what they are experiencing, the 'shallow effect'. They simply do not experience emotion the same way that other's do.

What you are doing is taking your own personal experiences and projecting them unto the subject in general as well as believing those subjective experiences amounts to objective expertise, so all I can tell you is to watch the documentary as it deals with the emotional state of the psychopath/sociopath. You understand some aspects of the condition but not others which is why we bother discussing them at all, to learn something new on the subject (ie: the OP).

And perhaps read this. Page 323 'Emotion in the Psychopath': http://dionysus.psych.wisc.edu/Lit/Articles/PatrickC1994a.pdf

You cannot posit that slave owners were sociopaths unless you want to say that the whole culture suffered from psychopathy. In other words you are diagnosing a cultural social structure. Would you say all of Germany was psychopathic? All of Cambodia? There are other dynamics that work when one refers to a cultural social structure where sociopathic traits can rise and dominate but you cannot retroactively call slave owners sociopaths as if you were diagnosing them as individuals who were acting contrary to their social and cultural environment.

 

[WillNever]

I am far from confused . I live my life to take over the world . From my first dream at 5 years old I knew it . I know that was not what you where posting about, You where posting about someone that hurt you terribly bad in a bad way , I would say it was while you where still a child and went on for a long time before you where able to get away. Just because I am not out to hurt people does not mean I don't have sociopathic tendency. I would have , but as they say kill bill, and Bal was murdered pretty good by everybody . It was part of the process of making Satan lay with the lamb. I don't mean this as a religious statement either. I can say with out a doubt " I can see what Jack the ripper saw. It is the click of time . The human instinct . I can see when a person will turn right or left and in that make them turn the other direction. I am a person of prey . The only difference is the things I manipulate are not the average things a sociopath manipulates. My desires are different than Jack, but my determinism is as equally strong. I plot an plan the same plan for 45 years now . Funny thing is I can now start to see the results of it in a big way . Many times I almost gave up , but my determination would not allow it. Most of you out there will think I am confused I know and you think my backwards ways of dyslexia is a confused state. I only have one thing to say about that Caveat Em-tor ( Spelling?) Let the buyer be ware

I think you need to stop playing with yourself and get a life, really badly. You are a nobody. A person who knows nobody and who nobody knows.

 

[Stoniphi]

Mirror neurons are a specific subset of neurons that fire brain circuits in sympathy with another person's actions as they make them. These help us to learn from our parents when we are young by activating the motor neural circuits that accompany an observed action in harmony with the instructor. Once those circuits have been actuated a few times this way we then can activate them on our own and have thus learned the action.

Later in life when we mature, these same neurons fire in sympathy with other peoples words and actions giving us empathy for how they feel as we interact with them. This makes it difficult for the normal personality to act in a manner that brings pain to another.

To repeat: a sociopath does not associate the results of an action with the action, he/she does not feel as deeply as most of us, he/she does not have empathy for others so they are free to do harm without remorse or guilt. This does not mean that they like being the way they are or wish to continue to act in this manner.

A pedophile is created by being the victim of a pedophile. Pedophilia is not about love and sex, it is about control and power over another. A pedophile can feel deeply and they can and do empathize with their victims - that is part of why they act as they do. They very much want someone else to feel every bit as small and helpless as they once did and they have been taught exactly how to do just that. Children are very much easier to control than adults. This is part of the lesson that the victim learns from the experience of being that. The lack of power and loss of control that they experience at the hands of the pedophile can give them a very strong drive to do to another what was done to them, so the victim becomes the aggressor.

Or alternatively, they get lots of counciling and go off to university and study psychology a lot so they can help themselves and others.

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) is the new "hot issue" in the corporate world these days, and most companies (like mine) are now starting (if ever so slowly) detailed training on how to spot and manage those with forms of ASPD. Corporate settings attract sociopaths/psychopaths like moths to a light. Huge financial rewards, herds of mindless sheeple. Do the math.

For HR and corporate purposes, sociopaths are those who don't adapt well. Psychopaths are those who are just as emotionally numb, but who excel at camouflaging who they really are. Whereas the sociopath struggles to fit in, the psychopath will become the skilled manipulator.

In either case, those who do the hiring (HR and managers) are trained (and not very well) at spotting and passing over both during interviews. Many make it in (especially the psychopath), and that is where HR has to be very careful in making sure they spot "scheming" and "plotting". It's common to have backbiting in the office world, so I would imagine that it's important to see who's taking it to the next level.

I work with a lady who I'm certain is a sociopath. She's slightly obvious, and it's sad. She's a compulsive liar who not only cannot remember what she's lied about, but when cornered with evidence that she lied, continues lying in the face of all available evidence. She actively "schemes" behind people's back (none of whom trust her and all of whom discuss her plots with eachother). She has zero ability to accurately sense other's emotions (a very precise indicator of psychopathy/sociopathy; often times confusing genuine laughter for cutting snickers; a warm smile for a condescending look; a pleasant remark for a snide comment). She's forever inquiring who is talking about her behind her back. She cannot, even under the best conditions, accept constructive criticism, no matter how padded with pleasant sounding words. Lastly, she cannot contemplate ownership for her actions. If a mistake is made, it's someone else's fault; if a problem about her is brought to her attention, she blames the accuser for being a tattle-tale.

It's an interesting subject. What's more, when you delve into the various defined facets of ASPD, you see how many people in our society fit into those descriptions.

~String

Lots , You are all over this and yes the marketers are why out in front of it too. I tell you all Onomastics is the way of the future and Corporation knows this too. Leaders are typically sociopaths. Good ones that is. It is the ability to plot and plan that makes it so, You have to have a business plan . The name thing is the most interesting thing though and yes most of you are sleeping and don't realize the importance of a name . How names group people in similarities . How desire is induced into you by infiltration of your repetitiveness. Normalization is the first step you take as a child and in the linguistics part it is your name. It plays a big big roll in your development. Think about the boy who has the name Skunk . Now as we are animals we show this display on the play ground. Little Skunky don't have a chance and the lessons he learns as a child make up his attributes for the rest of his life. Now some people can brake free of the normalization , but most people can't , even if they do they will have a tendency to revert back to there old self

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Don't make the mistake of assuming the experiences of others. Go and watch the documentary, there's obviously more information on the subject gleaned by experts as their understanding of the condition grows.

If you claim that their emotions tend to be self-serving or about their needs or wants with less consideration for others then in effect you are saying that they cannot empathize as empathy is the opposite of what you describe. I think you should go back and re-read my previous post as you either didn't read the edit or didn't understand it. Having friends does not mean one doesn't mimic emotion, it doesn't mean one is experiencing a depth of emotion which is why professional refer to the disconnect between their responses and what they are experiencing, the 'shallow affect'. They simply do not experience emotion the same way there that other's do.

What you are doing is taking your own personal experiences and projecting them unto the subject in general as well as believing those subjective experiences amounts to objective expertise, so all I can tell you is to watch the documentary as it deals with the emotional state of the psychopath/sociopath. You understand some aspects of the condition but not others which is why we bother discussing them at all, to learn something new on the subject (ie: the OP).

And perhaps read this. Page 323 'Emotion in the Psychopath': http://dionysus.psych.wisc.edu/Lit/Articles/PatrickC1994a.pdf

You cannot posit that slave owners were sociopaths unless you want to say that the whole culture suffered from psychopathy. In other words you are diagnosing a cultural social structure. Would you say all of Germany was psychopathic? All of Cambodia? There are other dynamics that work when one refers to a cultural social structure where sociopathic traits can rise and dominate but you cannot retroactively call slave owners sociopaths as if you were diagnosing them as individuals who were acting contrary to their social and cultural environment.

You see miss Lucy knows something . Contrary to social norms that is what it is all about, but even social norms can run a muck. There by making a group of sociopaths move in unison . The majority of the offenders are just herd mentality acting for the lead sociopath. It is basic corporate structure . It makes the world go round. It is our basic structure of economics. When we like the crazy bastard we follow the crazy bastard because we know he/she will invent the next wheel . If we don't like him/her we ostracize and that is when one of the leadership type becomes withdrawn, Plots and Plans revenge, or seeks out self Satisfying objectives.
As far as the shadow effect. Most people I believe live modern life in the shadow effect. You might cry , you might be sad and I am amazed at how may people are just flat out depressed . The depression has a lot to do with the shadow effect . It comes from the numbing effect of modern Life. All dressed and no place to go syndrome. Living lives in bubbles of delusions. A good sociopath will pop those bubbles and do you a favor so you can see life in the fast lane . The blink of an eye is a human life in the scheme of things, so brace your selves for a ride on the crazy machine.

 

[visceral_instinct]

According to Dr. Hare a specialist on psychopathy you cannot 'choose' to have a conscience. Its simply a module that's missing in their makeup and so not being able to choose is what makes them difficult to treat. Its not really a mental illness in the sense that they suffer from something but more an indication of who they are. They understand right from wrong but not having the ability to empathize means they have no boundaries in relation to others.

So basically they just don't comprehend the idea of right and wrong?

They understand that if you cut someone they feel pain, but don't empathize with the idea of pain? "Pain" is just a function to their mind?

 

[Dywyddyr]

So basically they just don't comprehend the idea of right and wrong?
They understand that if you cut someone they feel pain, but don't empathize with the idea of pain? "Pain" is just a function to their mind?

Not so much "don't empathise with the idea of pain" as "other people aren't real human beings", and therefore don't empathise with others' pain.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

So basically they just don't comprehend the idea of right and wrong?

They understand that if you cut someone they feel pain, but don't empathize with the idea of pain? "Pain" is just a function to their mind?

No they understand the difference between right and wrong, it just doesn't apply to them when it comes to their needs and wants. In other words they just don't care.

To the second question yes. They understand that the person feels pain but they cannot empathize with that persons pain.

 

[Mircea]

For HR and corporate purposes, sociopaths are those who don't adapt well. Psychopaths are those who are just as emotionally numb, but who excel at camouflaging who they really are. Whereas the sociopath struggles to fit in, the psychopath will become the skilled manipulator.

Leave it to the corporate world to totally screw up the definitions.

In either case, those who do the hiring (HR and managers) are trained (and not very well) at spotting and passing over both during interviews.

I seriously doubt that. They can be difficult to detect even with an MMPI.

I work with a lady who I'm certain is a sociopath. She's slightly obvious, and it's sad. She's a compulsive liar who not only cannot remember what she's lied about, but when cornered with evidence that she lied, continues lying in the face of all available evidence. She actively "schemes" behind people's back (none of whom trust her and all of whom discuss her plots with eachother). She has zero ability to accurately sense other's emotions (a very precise indicator of psychopathy/sociopathy; often times confusing genuine laughter for cutting snickers; a warm smile for a condescending look; a pleasant remark for a snide comment). She's forever inquiring who is talking about her behind her back. She cannot, even under the best conditions, accept constructive criticism, no matter how padded with pleasant sounding words. Lastly, she cannot contemplate ownership for her actions. If a mistake is made, it's someone else's fault; if a problem about her is brought to her attention, she blames the accuser for being a tattle-tale.

None of what you have described fits the profile.

Surgical strike--
Lasers focus an energetic burst, at a predetermined wiring location, and the cauterizing redirects an unwanted pathway. Future medical advancement may include non-evasive entanglement solutions.

That's a waste of time and money. I hope you got enough money to cover that under Obamacare.

A pedophile is created by being the victim of a pedophile.

There's no evidence to support a claim like that that. Some pedo/paraphiles were molested, however the vast majority of persons molested neither exhibit pedophilic/paraphilac activities nor do they engage in such activities.

Paraphiles engage in sex with children under 13, pedophiles with children under 5.

70% of all child molestation cases including pedophile/paraphilia activity occur in the family.

If you read DSM IV, pedophilia is not psychological disorder per se. In order to be diagnosed, the pedophile has to experience anxiety related to acts of pedophilia and it must impair work or social relationships.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Paraphiles engage in sex with children under 13, pedophiles with children under 5.

70% of all child molestation cases including pedophile/paraphilia activity occur in the family.

If you read DSM IV, pedophilia is not psychological disorder per se. In order to be diagnosed, the pedophile has to experience anxiety related to acts of pedophilia and it must impair work or social relationships.

Actually paraphilia refers to any abnormal or deviant sexual behaviour. Pedophile is someone who engages in sexual activity with anyone 12 or younger.

'As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia (or paedophilia) is typically defined as a psychiatric disorder in adults or late adolescents (persons age 16 and older) characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, though onset of puberty may vary).'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

I think you need to stop playing with yourself and get a life, really badly. You are a nobody. A person who knows nobody and who nobody knows.

Thanks for your vote of confidence. You might be a little surprised at who I know. I got a big family. We get around somewhat. You might be right about playing with my self though . Yeah I will take that into consideration . My friend Newt knew Me and played guitar with Me . He was a Vietnam vet who died Valentines day this year. His Memorial was yesterday . Yeah he had a drinking problem for part of his life . It was mainly from people that think like you

 

[John99]

To the second question yes. They understand that the person feels pain but they cannot empathize with that persons pain.

A sociopath become a "sociopath" when they take some form of action. Do we empathize with another persons pain? If i say something hurtful to a forum member wouldnt this mean i am not empathizing with that persons pain? If someone cals someone stupid and if i say? "that was hurtful" and the response is "boo frickin' hoo" isnt that person by your definition a sociopath? Regardless of weather the person is really stupid just the fact that your response did, in fact, cause them pain. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying that i have not made remarks that can be hurtful, everyone does, but then on the other hand i feel bad about it. Similarly a socioopaath is not always devoid of empathy. Could be that there is no such thing as a sociopath because in reality anyone can and often they do exhibit sociopathic tendencies if we were to go by the definition above. Walking past homeless people and feeling nothing...yet otoh these circumstances are just realities of life and often times peole feel no empathy. Sociopath?

However, knowing this would we conclude that sociopathy does not really deviate from what we see all around us and more like what we see as sociopathic behavior is a little mare than that well basically rising to the level of psychotic.

 

[Stoniphi]

There's no evidence to support a claim like that that.

Unless you read the literature on the topic, that is. Guess you missed it, eh?

 

[Dywyddyr]

If i say something hurtful to a forum member wouldnt this mean i am not empathizing with that persons pain? If someone cals someone stupid and if i say? "that was hurtful" and the response is "boo frickin' hoo" isnt that person by your definition a sociopath?

Do you not read your own posts?

Regardless of weather the person is really stupid just the fact that your response did, in fact, cause them pain. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying that i have not made remarks that can be hurtful, everyone does, but then on the other hand i feel bad about it.

Similarly a socioopaath is not always devoid of empathy.

Evidence?

 

[John99]

Fighting.

Now i ahve never been in a phsical fight myself but where is the empathy there?

 

[John99]

Evidence?

Are you saying that there are\has been peole devoid of empathy?

 

[Dywyddyr]

And again you fail to reason.
A sociopath is incapable of empathy. At all.
You persist in raising spurious "points" while not grasping the concept.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Are you saying that there are\has been peole devoid of empathy?

FFS!
Yes.
They're called sociopaths.

 

[John99]

FFS!
Yes.
They're called sociopaths.

They understand that the person feels pain but they cannot empathize with that persons pain.

What kind of pain emotional or physical?

 

[Dywyddyr]

What kind of pain emotional or physical?

Try to look up the word "empathy".
Why do you persist in posting on topics of which you are singularly ignorant and completely unprepared to do any checking?