Sobering thoughts on the Pakistani convert case

I note from your links:

"But since in Islam human rights have been conferred by God, no legislative assembly in the world or any government on earth has the right or authority to make any amendment or change in the rights conferred by God. No one has the right to abrogate them or withdraw them. Nor are they basic human rights which are conferred on paper for the sake of show and exhibition and denied in actual life when the show is over. Nor are they like philosophical concepts which have no sanctions behind them."

So that these laws, no matter how corrupt or injust, cannot be removed.

Some legal system, legalist. Studying this bollocks would be about as interesting and useful as watching paint dry.

And of course the principle, as revealed in the last sentence is punishment. Hardly surprising.

I note further that section 9, "Protection Of Religious Sentiments", has no Quranic support given. I wonder why that is.

These are not exemplary concepts. They are not novel, they are not thoughtful, they are not superior. They are the basics of what any society, however primitive, might provide. They are far, far from the requirement of a real society and their simplistic, punishment-centred nature is immediately apparent.

Geoff
 
DiamondHearts said:
CAIR's vision is to be a leading advocate for justice and mutual understanding.

CAIR's mission is to enhance understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding.

Since its establishment in 1994, CAIR has worked to promote a positive image of Islam and Muslims in America.

A bit xenophobic of Muslims are we.

Why don't you try to make some Muslim friends and try to learn about Muslims instead of passing judgement on people who you don't know about.

Sharia in America

By Ayesha Ahmed

Omar M. Ahmad founder of CAIR said:"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" he said. "The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America , and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth," he said.

Americans should give a serious thought to CAIR's agenda.. If Islam and sharia is adopted in America , It will be great. .

Muslims are right. Non of the existing Islamic countries are truly Islamic, that is why they don't progress and most of them are poor, corrupt and miserable. We must implement 100% sharia and sunna to get full benefits of Islam. Inshallah we will try to do it in USA to make it the first real Muslim country after the days of rightly guided khalifas Consider the following advantages:

- America can go to jihad against non Muslim countries. It will bring immense wealth in booty and millions of captured women. Canada and Mexico can be easy targets and are conveniently located for easy assault and hauling of booty.

-Since slavery will be allowed government can open slave markets to sell it's 20% share of the captured women.

-Captured women/slave-girls can provide affordable domestic help for house wives and clean enjoyable sex for their husbands.

-Enslaved men can be used as farm labor and factory workers at a much lower cost than unionized labor.

-Unemployed men from the prohibited non Islamic businesses like TV, Photography, computers, mortgage companies, music industry etc can be hired as religious police for the Ministry of Prevention of Vice and Promotion of Virtues . They can be used to beat up women violating burqa laws, arrest men with undersize beards and whip the non religious types found loitering at prayer times.

-Since men will be allowed four wives and unlimited number of slave girls, population boom will result in making the fastest growing religion grow even faster.

-All non muslims will live under dhimmi rules and pay heavy Jizya. Budget deficits will be a thing of the past.

Stoning of adulterers, whipping of alcohol drinkers, cutting of hands and feet of thieves and beheadings of apostates can be carried out after Juma prayers on Fridays in the local stadium. Gate charge for this gory and exciting weekly spectacle can generate a lot of revenue.

-Unemployed male gynecologists can be hired to carry out circumcisions of new male converts.

-Female circumcision can be made mandatory to promote piety and holiness and discourage lewdness among women.

-Marriage age for girls can be lowered to 6 years. That will reduce the burden of support of large poorer families and also promote a sunna, the tradition set by the holy prophet (peace be up on him).

-Whole Ramadan will be declared as public holidays so that every one can pray and recite the Quran.. Why work in the only month in which all ibadah and Quran recitals are worth 70 times the normal sawab (reward)?.

-Shia Muslims on temporary out of town business assignments will be able to do a temporary marriage (Muta) and enjoy home comfort outside of home.

-Since menstruation is a disease according to Quran all menstruating women will be given time off to rest in bed during their periods.

-All toilet seats in the public rest rooms will be reoriented so that one does not defecate facing Mecca .

-All public toilets will have buckets of stones instead of toilet tissues for claiming after defecation as a movement to implement sunna in the country.

-Separate bins along roadside will be placed to drop bones and dried animal feces for jins to snack on.

-Spiraling medical costs can be brought down by the following two prong approaches:

-Imams can be placed in the clinics to recite Quranic ayas (verses) and blow on the patients and pray for them . Their fee will be a fraction of what doctor's charge.

- All pharmacies will be required to dispense black cumin, honey, Indian incense and camel urine as cure for all diseases as recommended by the holy prophet (pbuh). The cost will be a fraction of today's medicines.

-Spiralling prison costs will come down due to the following:

-All men serving time for the crime of rape will be freed if four male witnesses had not testified in the trial. Even if four male witnesses had testified, the criminal will be freed under insanity provision , since only mentally insane will rape in front of four witnesses.

-All men serving sentences for beating wives will be freed as under new American sharia law wife beating will be allowed.

-All thieves will be freed after cutting their hands and feet.

-All pedophiles will be freed as sex with children will not be against law any more.

-All slayers of unbelievers will be freed if they converted to Islam.

All these result in savings and prosperity and happiness for all. InshaAllah!

Muslims don't care at all about Sharia law in countries who are not Muslim majority. Islam for Muslims, the rest what they decide themselves.

Since organizations already exist that have been lobbying governments in North America to place Sharia Law into regulatory laws, your statement is pointless, wrong and entirely lack of any thought on your part.
 
CAIR officials say the hate-filled emails were prompted by a number of Worldnetdaily.com articles demonizing Muslims and by recent false charges made against CAIR by the site's editor, Joseph Farah.

His most recent articles smeared CAIR in an attempt to support the controversial nomination of Daniel Pipes to the United States Institute of Peace. The nomination of Pipes, who just this week said President Bush was wrong to call Islam a "religion of peace" and refused to condemn the internment of Japanese-Americans in World War II, is opposed by a number of Muslim and Arab-American groups, including CAIR.

Farah falsely claimed CAIR never condemned suicide bombings, called the conviction of the first World Trade Center bombings a "travesty of justice," termed the conviction of Omar Abdel Rahman a "hate crime," and that CAIR's board chairman said the Quran "should be the highest authority in America."

"We never called the conviction of the World Trade Center bombings a 'travesty of justice' and did not call the conviction of Sheikh Omar a 'hate crime,'" said CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad. "Our board chairman did not say the Quran should be the highest authority in America and we have repeatedly condemned terrorism in all its forms, including suicide bombings," said Awad.

He citied the group's statement of condemnation issued following a bomb attack on a Passover celebration in the coastal city of Netanya last March that left 20 people dead and more than 100 wounded: "We condemn this attack and all other attacks on innocent civilians…This attack is of particular concern coming as it did during a religious observance in which the focus is remembrance of God... To break this cycle of violence and counter-violence, all parties must focus on a political solution based on justice and equality, not force of arms."

Awad also noted that the alleged statement about the Quran by CAIR's board chairman was not in fact a quote. It was a paraphrase of remarks that were either reported inaccurately or wrongly attributed by a reporter at a small California newspaper. CAIR is seeking a retraction from that newspaper.

...

CAIR, America's largest Islamic civil liberties group, is a mainstream organization that regularly works with national law enforcement authorities, elected officials and other civil liberties and minority groups. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C., and has 16 regional offices nationwide and in Canada. Since its founding in 1994, CAIR has defended the civil and religious rights of all Americans.

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1010&theType=NR

Here is their phone number, please feel free to call them and ask them yourself.
1-800-78-ISLAM

Peace.
 
Anyone in doubt about CAIR can go here they have posted the actual court documents and findings regarding CAIRs members activities. Also by all means go to CAIR to get thier explainations.
 
DiamondHearts said:
Awad also noted that the alleged statement about the Quran by CAIR's board chairman was not in fact a quote. It was a paraphrase of remarks that were either reported inaccurately or wrongly attributed by a reporter at a small California newspaper. CAIR is seeking a retraction from that newspaper. [/B]

Whether or not it was a direct quote (and I have seen no evidence to indicate that it wasn't), it accurately reflected the impression of the individual from the press (and what relevance would his being from a "small California newspaper" have anyway?). That's the matter that CAIR detests so much.

However, I was amused to see that you think the whole matter would be cleared up by simply calling them. :rolleyes: I suppose it would be like dialing up the Munich Nazi Party Office in 1937.

"What's that, sir? Jews? *chucking* No, sir, we don't have any hatred for Jews. No, that was all a big misunderstanding, sir. Yes, we're seeking a retraction. OK, thankyou, sir. Goodbye."

Geoff
 
I might add: their pressing that newspaper for a retraction does not provide an excuse as to why so many CAIR officials seem to be ending up heading to jail on conspiracy to terrorism charges, or of money laundering for extremist groups, etc.

Any apologetics for those, DH?

Geoff
 
Reading through the documents provided at ACAIR (http://anti-cair-net.org) I was APPALLED to find that they had willfully constructed a link aimed at diverting money from aid to the victims of the 9/11 attack to the "Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development" (HLF), a body with known ties to islamofascist groups including Hamas and other terrorist organizations.

And DH still defends CAIR. Well of course he would. He believes the same thing they do.

Geoff
 
DiamondHearts said:
CAIR, America's largest Islamic civil liberties group, is a mainstream organization that regularly works with national law enforcement authorities, elected officials and other civil liberties and minority groups. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C., and has 16 regional offices nationwide and in Canada. Since its founding in 1994, CAIR has defended the civil and religious rights of all Americans.

Bite me. The letter above is from the founder of CAIR, he is as sick and twisted as you are. You can deny it all you want but that crap is on the CAIR site.
 
CAIR has certainly not "defended the civil and religious rights of all Americans".

Utter hogwash.

Geoff
 
A final point: DH's...er..."refutations" always comprise some minor side issue, rarely if ever with appropriate citation, and invariably one distant to the major points.

If I were to say: "Ibraham Hooper eats children, hates democracy and once shot a dog", DH's response would probably be something like: "Don't listen to this hater. Hooper never, ever shot a dog."

Geoff
 
In a purely Islamic State, religionists have the right to practice their religions, but not the right to spread their religions.
...

Islam is the only religion which guarantees protection and the building of other religion's holy shrines, temples, and churches.

I would not get into the overall argument, but the above line is extremely funny.

There is too much stuff available, a search link is best to follow: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=te...muslim+hindu+book&y=Search&fr=opera2&ei=UTF-8
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/temple1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_Temples_-_What_Happened_to_Them

Please ask if you need more assistance.
 
DiamondHearts said:
Allah (swt) does not need to sacrifice anyone to save people from Hell, and can do this without the help of anyone.
But the prophet of Islam, the guy who sat in a cave (with those listeners) somewhere, said to kill non-believers on His (and his) behalf. It's in one of the suras; what are these deaths in aid of?
All the ones that have been carried out, ignoring the Crusader campaigns, but of anyone "put to" death because of their refusal to surrender their faith, since he said it was Allah's will?

DiamondHearts said:
Whether we like it or not, we are in total relience of Allah (swt).
I believe I am personally aware (when awake), of my reliance on being alive and aware, of being able to hear and see things, for instance.
Why don't muslims like people who say they don't believe what the Qu'ran says, if it's all up to Allah?

DiamondHearts said:
In His hands alone is life and death, and the events of the world are all part of His plan.
And the prophet of all this said that this plan includes all the above, and all the other things posted about the Qu'ran?
 
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Islam and Christianity are very similar faiths, as is judaism, the fundamental parts are the same, the differences are subtle
spoken like a true non-believer, who knows a few things, then thinks that makes him an expert

listen, I a grew up as a Mexican catholic, left after reading the Bible cover to cover in Spanish, felt they were too pagan, so at 17 y.o., I when to a Jewish temple next town over called "Temple Ner Tamid" (eternal light), http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9055308/ner-tamid
through 6 years in the USAF ( we used transliterated/Hebrew Torah & prayer books (combination of Hebrew words spelled in Latin characters & in actual Hebrew). it wasn't until I got out of the service, that the synagogue were I went to next, (which used an English Torah & prayer book), that I noticed a strange thing, the very same Bible I had used as a catholic (except now in English), was the same Bible being used in the synagogue, except that it only went as far as the prophets.
Judaism & Christianity flow from one another, use the same 1st half Torah, Psalms & prophets, called the "Old Testament" by Christians), while the quran is an alien text, with an alien god, (& it has nothing to do with it being in arabic, but because its different) it is because God tells Moses that "YHWH" is His memorial name for ever in the Bible,
Exd 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exd 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations.

from: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Exd/Exd003.html#15

refers to the Name written with four letters, namely יהוה, the name of the God of Israel, as preserved in the original consonantal Hebrew Bible text.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

yet Mohammad doesn't know that, so the quran calls its god, "allah", as if it was God's very own personal name. the quran is claimed by muslims as part 3, yet reads as if it was written by someone that only had read part of the Cliff notes, lost the main parts but knew just enough to to write it so it seems like it was part, but muffed all the important parts (or because of bias changed it like the JW's?), almost like you've been a Trekker all you life, waiting for the next installment of the Star Trek saga, then when it is out, you find out that its been written by L. Ron Hubbard


the quran is anti-Christ, true islam, is in conflict with Christianity, because it was meant to, by its maker. ask yourself, why does the quran & islam deny all the main Christian tenets?

it even gets Jesus' name wrong, because Mohammad had no personal knowledge of Jesus, nor what His name meant, & instead of using a semitic root for Jesus' name, used a greek transliteration, Issa.

The word Jesus is the Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which in turn is the transliteration of the Hebrew Jeshua, or Joshua, or again Jehoshua, meaning "Jehovah is salvation."
from: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374x.htm
 
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fundamentalist christianity is also fucking violent.
Haven't you read the bible adstar? Shame on you.
turning "the other cheek" as Jesus said, sure is violent

the violence is because most men can't live up to the standard Jesus set, we know we're fallen, in need of redemption, we need God's grace

fundamentalist atheists on the other hand, sure kill with glee, no conscience in killing soulless proletariats, ask the victims of Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, oops sorry, they're all dead
 
yet Mohammad doesn't know that, so the quran calls its god, "allah", as if it was God's very own personal name. the quran is claimed by muslims as part 3, yet reads as if it was written by someone that only had read part of the Cliff notes, lost the main parts but knew just enough to to write it so it seems like it was part, but muffed all the important parts (or because of bias changed it like the JW's?), almost like you've been a Trekker all you life, waiting for the next installment of the Star Trek saga, then when it is out, you find out that its been written by L. Ron Hubbard

i believe this allah, ilahi, elo-hi stuff have been disscussed somewhere in this forum before. anyway if i'm not mistaken there are 99 names atributed to the god of islam.
is it true? is it in quran?

it even gets Jesus' name wrong, because Mohammad had no personal knowledge of Jesus, nor what His name meant, & instead of using a semitic root for Jesus' name, used a greek transliteration, Issa.

The word Jesus is the Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which in turn is the transliteration of the Hebrew Jeshua, or Joshua, or again Jehoshua, meaning "Jehovah is salvation."

this one is new to me. how do the first letter in hebrew jeshua/joshua/jehoshua sound like? is it "ipa:dʒ" like in just/joy/edge, or is it "ipa:j" like in young/yes? i believe the latter is the correct one, hence the arabic isa/iisa (not issa) and the greek ieosus.

lookup for the name yeshua and yehoshua in wikipedia. i'm not allowed to post link.
 
just found out that i actually can post non clickable links. here's something you might want to know:

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_Names_of_God_in_the_Qur'an
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_and_titles_of_Jesus_in_the_New_Testament

and some language lesson:

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language

spoken like a true non-believer, who knows a few things, then thinks that makes him an expert

listen, I a grew up as a Mexican catholic, left after reading the Bible cover to cover in Spanish, felt ... crap deleted
:confused:

what do you think your religious history will add to the validity of your claim? i am a high school graduate muslim from indonesia who learned about christianity in a protestant elementary school for six years. it doesn't make me a true expert yet it seems like i have more knowledge about the history of your religion. :rolleyes:

i would like to add that the christian here use the bible published by lia - lembaga alkitab indonesia (indonesian bible society) which has the highest authority regarding translating and publishing the bible. god is translated into allah and they use the name yesus instead of jesus. when speaking about trinitas (the trinity doctrine) the names will be allah bapa (the father), sang putera (the son) and roh kudus (the holy spirit).

you also don't know that and i suggest you to stick to the topic of this thread instead of start preaching your false expertise.
 
god is translated into allah and they use the name yesus instead of jesus. when speaking about trinitas (the trinity doctrine) the names will be allah bapa (the father), sang putera (the son) and roh kudus (the holy spirit).

Interesting that the bolded words are actually based in Sanskrit!
 
Interesting that the bolded words are actually based in Sanskrit!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_language said:
Linguistics

To a certain degree, Indonesian can be regarded as an open language. Over the years, foreign languages such as Sanskrit, Chinese, Arabic, Portuguese, Dutch and English have influenced and expanded the Indonesian language, mostly through trade contacts and international media.

but this is already way out off topic.
 
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