So was god just lonely or what?

B

buffys

Registered Loser
Registered Senior Member
When I consider God (the christian one in this case) I keep coming back to this.

Why create it all anyway, if the bible is correct a majority of God's creation (im talking about humans now) will or have gone to hell. To me, that makes creation in general a serious falure. Is creation worth it if it means an eternity of torture for even one person? let alone the millions who must reside in hell by now? God sees ALL correct? obviously he knew presicely how many would fail his "game of life". Why didn't he just choose to not make it. Was he bored? If God is love you'd think he would have seen the resulting infinite tourture of the millions of "lost souls" his creation would allow and just build an addition to his house or a ship in a bottle or something. Im sure millions will go to heaven too but what a price to pay just so God has someone to golf with.


Just something that I've always wondered about, I'd apreciate any thoughts.
 
Theory... Quite Frivolous, But...

Consider:

Universe Mk I:
God's first creations - "Angelic Hosts"...
Bereft of free will, they could do naught but strum their harps and sing "Ha-ley-loo"...
Doesn't this sound boring?
Conclusion: Immortal sycophants bad.

Universe Mk II:
"Lucifer" and his boys get some balls, ( Initial experiments with free will) decide its "their turn" to run show, and are promptly sent packing after a failed hostile takeover.
Conclusion: free will good. Minions with pseudodeific powers bad.

Universe Mk III:
Delete Pseudodeific powers.
Delete Immortality.
Reboot free will.

Still doesn't quite work out... free will remains key, but in spite of phenomenally impressive "hints" (ie - flood innundates world, Sodom & Gomorrah "nuked", Burning Bush, Devastatingly simple 10-rule system "lazered" into solid rock tablets, etc) "test subjects" still don't "get it".
Repair program initiated (BKA "JC")
Result: Questionable, but sufficient to allow experiment to proceed.

Perhaps it is the presumption that God knows all that is flawed.
Could the Universe be his/her/their attempt to comprehend the same mystery which faces us...

WHY?
 
you said - Could the Universe be his/her/their attempt to comprehend the same mystery which faces us... WHY?

I like that ... but then it really makes the idea of eternal damnation difficult to reason. I mean if even God doesn't know "WHY" is he really in the position to meet out such a sentence on the non believers? Hell in general seems like a pretty rough punishment for something as fallible as a human (even people on death row aren't tortured). In life we often make mistakes that follow us till our deaths but eternety, man, thats quite a while to pay.
 
Perhaps...

It's not necessarily "non-believers" who warrant eternal Bar-B-Que for their lack of faith - although I believe even the bible says something to the effect that even a lifetime of "good works" are meaningless without belief in God.
My feeling is that the "sinner" ends up in the lake of fire because he/she/it/they have squandered their opportunity to gain such a magnificent reward for simply choosing what is "essentially right" anyway...
By this I refer to such axioms as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", the commandments, etc.
This appears to be the crux of Humanity's "test"... ( ie, the experiment) You possess the free will to choose being a despicable wretch... Do you possess the strength (ie-faith?) to choose goodness instead? The former may have seemingly better short-term results, but the latter, while exponentially more difficult, results in a similarly more beneficient reward.
Also - recall that the "rules" state that you can "wipe clean" your personal "slate" by basically saying sincerely that you are sorry & playing nice from then on...
The peril involved may be the sole method available to discover the WHY
To reveal meaning to an entity so far removed from our existence as to be able to bring about all that we are capable of perceiving, and yet still be incapable of understanding he/she/them self ...
 
Thats the crux of the god (christian) problem to me. You cannot, no matter how good you are get in heaven without belief in Jesus. So infact someone CAN squander their lives in the most profane way possible and still enter heaven if they hook up with JC even seconds before they die. In that case a good person can go to hell and a bad one didn't, so the message is - be as bad as u want, just don't die without a chance to repent and you'll be fine? seems kinda wonky to me. In this senario the goodness of a person becomes meaningless.
 
However...

The "last minute" redemption might still be voided during the "summing up " on judgement day. Its apparently the sincerity of the thing that matters.
At least as far as I recall, there's a summing up on judgement day... Been many a moon since those chatechism classes... Something about a sort of ledger of all one's deeds which were assessed at the end of the world, and if you were good, straight upstairs... irredeemably evil, down the chute... and "so-so", report to purgatory for a couple centuries of being flogged with lightning bolts to clean your ass up! :bugeye:

Personally, I never liked the "believers only" clause myself.

Also, I believe purgatory was tacked on by the church later in the "game" to get more people to show up on Sunday...
 
Originally posted by buffys
Why create it all anyway, if the bible is correct a majority of God's creation (im talking about humans now) will or have gone to hell.
Click to expand...

If He didn't create the material world, where would those hell intended desires go?
Another question.
If the government didn't create prison houses, or create some kind of punishment penalty, where would all the crims go.

Is creation worth it if it means an eternity of torture for even one person?
Click to expand...

Supply and demand or vice-versa. If God created man in His own image, by that i don't just mean bodily, then similar to God, man has some capacity to make his own choices, based on his consciouness. If a man chooses to transgress, then that is his choice.

God sees ALL correct? obviously he knew presicely how many would fail his "game of life".
Click to expand...

There are innumerable souls, all transmigrating at instantanious speed, according to Gods perception. God is not under the control of time. When we speak of eternity, forever or life, we see it in terms of time due to our perception.

Why didn't he just choose to not make it.
Click to expand...

How could God be bored, do you have any idea? :D

Im sure millions will go to heaven too but what a price to pay just so God has someone to golf with.
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I like that, very funny. LOL!! :p


Love

Jan Ardena.
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Re: However...

Originally posted by Killjoy
..and if you were good, straight upstairs... irredeemably evil, down the chute... and "so-so", report to purgatory for a couple centuries of being flogged with lightning bolts to clean your ass up! :bugeye:
Click to expand...

hahaha... we can reasonably imagine none gone to hell ever. every one might have visited purgatory for a clean up though..:D
 
Jan Ardena

Quote - "If He didn't create the material world, where would those hell intended desires go?

It seems to me the "hell intended desires" should not HAVE to be, if god is truly omnipotent. Satan, evil, what ever one calls it is only allowed because the one in control (god in this case) says its so. In other words (god, being the master of all) must have created evil. So, satan and hell can only exist because god allows them to, the desires available to us are chosen by him (god).

Quote - "If the government didn't create prison houses, or create some kind of punishment penalty, where would all the crims go."

Prisons are wildly unsuccessful in teaching the imprisoned the folly of their ways, I'd hope god (being perfect in all ways) could do better.

Quote - "If God created man in His own image, by that i don't just mean bodily, then similar to God, man has some capacity to make his own choices, based on his consciouness. If a man chooses to transgress, then that is his choice."

My whole point is god makes the rules. The difference between a transgression and virtue is entirely under gods control. Hot is hot, cold is cold because god decided it would be so.


this is probably pretty inappropriate in such a serious discussion but I cant tell you how fun this is for me, im really enjoying considering your thoughts.

thnx for your response.
 
No god didnt create evil. He created free will. In free will you can do evil if you choose to or not.
 
Originally posted by buffys
When I consider God (the christian one in this case) I keep coming back to this.

Why create it all anyway, if the bible is correct a majority of God's creation (im talking about humans now) will or have gone to hell. To me, that makes creation in general a serious falure. Is creation worth it if it means an eternity of torture for even one person? let alone the millions who must reside in hell by now? God sees ALL correct? obviously he knew presicely how many would fail his "game of life". Why didn't he just choose to not make it. Was he bored? If God is love you'd think he would have seen the resulting infinite tourture of the millions of "lost souls" his creation would allow and just build an addition to his house or a ship in a bottle or something. Im sure millions will go to heaven too but what a price to pay just so God has someone to golf with.


Just something that I've always wondered about, I'd apreciate any thoughts.
Click to expand...

I like that thread you started, the Christian sects before 600 AD were believing in reincarnation and the chance for humans to correct their mistakes, it was later condemned by the Church authorities.
 
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what use free will with no choice?/

free will without choice = dictatorship. Ask any cold war communist.

with respect
 
brainuniverse

I have often wondered about reicarnation. it seems fair, to my limited and finite perspictive anyway.

I apologize but thats really all i can say about it, the evidence im familiar with is about the same as what ive seen for gods existance, for me its still just a theory. I have to add that i lean toward reincarnation (at this moment, I tend to change my opinion often) but thats just a guess, it seems the most just ... but hey, im only a human.
 
ANS: whim.

I think most Christians would agree to these things: God is eternal, unchanging, omnipotent and omniscient. With this in mind we can agree that God must be irrational. This is because rational thought involves contemplating some information and then reaching a conclusion. As god already knows all conclusions then God is irrational. Also, god is unchanging - there is nothing you can do that will change "him". This must be true if god is eternally unchanging - and he is (kind of a waste of time praying huh?).

In conclusion God is an irrational being that created the universe solely on a whimsy. There really are no other answers that make sense given the nature of God (as Christians have defined him).

… for he is the living God, unchanging for ever … Daniel 6:21
… God knows all things, is omniscient; that he is every where, is omnipresent… Psalms 139:1-6
…
 
Originally posted by buffys
brainuniverse

I have often wondered about reicarnation. it seems fair, to my limited and finite perspictive anyway.

I apologize but thats really all i can say about it, the evidence im familiar with is about the same as what ive seen for gods existance, for me its still just a theory. I have to add that i lean toward reincarnation (at this moment, I tend to change my opinion often) but thats just a guess, it seems the most just ... but hey, im only a human.
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buffys, why you appologise, I have not suggested anything, I just said that the first Christian sects have found their own anwer about "eternel burning" that was similair to asiatic beleifs.
 
edgar

Quote - "No god didnt create evil. He created free will. In free will you can do evil if you choose to or not."

i guess im trying to say that both evil and good are available to us, humanity. How can evil be available without gods consent? he made EVERYTHING. evil exists only because god allows it. god, being the master/creator of all, could (by definition) eliminate evil from existance with a blink of his eyes (if indeed he has eyes).

thats how it looks to me anyway,
thanx for your thoughts.
 
brainuniverse

i think i misunderstood what you were saying in your earlier post, im afraid im not familiar with what you were referring to when u said,

Quote - "Christian sects have found their own anwer about "eternel burning" that was similair to asiatic beleifs."

i know absolutely nothing about early christian sects or asiatic beliefs but id be interested to hear what you know in more detail :) I want to be able to put what youre saying in a context i understand.

thnx for the note.
 
buffys, there is few evidences that the trinity theory comes from the Indian three head Suprem God, it is believed that Jesus in those years from where he is absent from the new testament was in a trip in India, the philosophy of the wine representing his blood and breath his corps is similair to those totemic representations from asiatic philosophies.

In the early years, it was believed that Jesus entered in the disciples and that there was a kind of reincrnation of the spirits etc... until 600 AD before that there was a Church supremassy on all those Christian fates, the early Christians believed that there was a possibility of reincarnation and that they had the chance to correct themselves from the "sins" in order for god to knoww if the soul could be corrected after those reincarnations.
 
wow, interesting stuff, do you know of any links to that subject? I know nothing of this. The connectection between religion and culture is an interest of mine and im always eager to find more info on it.
 
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