So many religions and gods

T

truth

Registered Senior Member
This question is specifically directed at Christians, but also welcome any comments from anyone else.

I believe that Christ taught only one truth and gospel when here. He said that there is one faith, one baptism, straight is the gate and narrow is the way. I often hear that it does not matter, as long as you try to good, so your religion does not matter, or we will all be saved regardless of religious affiliation. Or that it does not matter what God you worship. And yet some of those same people readily berate those that do not believe as they or single out specific groups.

I am asking out of genuine desire to know. This is not a troll or an invitation to argue. To argue religion to me is antithetical to what Christ taught. Please be respectful, I honestly would like some answers as I am rather confused by this. Thank you.
 
Personally I don't see how anybody can search for God and not arrive at Christ some time or another. That is where the real choice lies - do you believe God has made it possible for you to know Him or not?

I think what happens is that people theorize about God and He becomes not much more than an intellectual exercise. Another problem is that all the enmity between religions and especially between individuals has made it almost impossible to remain objective about God, without running into some subjective trouble with religion.

If someone truly starts with an open mind and accepts that "God will be what God is", in spite of what people might think He is, and then start doing his research, he will eventually run into the 'does God love me, did He prove it, and would I see it?' question.Because in the end it is an immensely pesonal quest, and any answer should have immensely personal consequences.
 
I agree that one must search and come to a personal understanding, I don't believe that God wants us to follow blindly, rather that we come to know Him and to develop a personal relationship with Him.

I just get confused if a person belongs to religion A, but says that it does not matter if someone is B or C, it all turns out in the end. I look at it as that Christ gave specific authority to specific people and taught one truth and set up one church, not the thousands of Christian churches today.
 
Originally posted by truth
I just get confused if a person belongs to religion A, but says that it does not matter if someone is B or C, it all turns out in the end. I look at it as that Christ gave specific authority to specific people and taught one truth and set up one church, not the thousands of Christian churches today.
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I'm not a christian, but I'll attempt to answer you. The secularization observed in the christian faith is also a plight of the Islamic faith and all other religions, while the question of why so many churches should be changed to why so many religions?

The answer is because humans have kidnapped religion and made it the religion of humans, while religion is a sole property of god. For example, when you ask someone what is your religion, you are immediately implying that a religion belongs to that person as a property or asset to that person, while noone should ask the trivial question of what is your religion, because all religions are one and they belong to the one god. What is your affiliation is more like the question that should be asked, and some have affiliation to a certain church or mosque much like golf clubs membership, but it shouldn't be confused with religion.

Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Elias, Jesus, ect....were all prophets of god that preached the same fundemental message of submitting to the one god. The jews deny Jesus as a prophet and are sufficient with what came before them, and the christians deny Mohamed as a prophet and are sufficient with what came before them, and the muslim deny everyone that doesn't believe in their message, which is the same basic message of submittion to one god. Abraham bowed down and prayed to the lord, Jesus bowed down and prayed and fasted every year for a month, the muslims bow down everyday in prayer and fast and remember god, yet due to the fact that everyone think they own their religion that we are all blind from seeing god.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Personally I don't see how anybody can search for God and not arrive at Christ some time or another. That is where the real choice lies - do you believe God has made it possible for you to know Him or not?
Just because you don't understand/see why people don't believe in Christ, doesn't mean that they must not be looking. Even if there is a 'choice' to know god, that says nothing about Christ being his son/self.
 
Originally posted by Flores
The answer is because humans have kidnapped religion and made it the religion of humans, while religion is a sole property of god.
Sad sad flores. Religion has not been 'kidnapped' by humans. If anything, it was created FOR humans. Your argument of god owning religion is no better then an argument of god owning everything.... and in that sense, the word 'own' loses all meaning.

For example, when you ask someone what is your religion, you are immediately implying that a religion belongs to that person as a property or asset to that person
Or you could try and understand human language. If I as you what 'your eye color is', it does not mean that you own the color brown.

because all religions are one and they belong to the one god
Nice thought... but as you have to realize, religions ARE different... as you yourself fight against the religious beliefs of others... which would mean YOU ARE FIGHTING AGAINST GOD.

Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Elias, Jesus, ect....were all prophets of god that preached the same fundemental message of submitting to the one god.
The devil is in the details. While you may claim that is was all for the same god, god seems to have told them all different things. And what is this 'fundemental message'? "Ignore the free will I gav eyou and submit to lambdom"?
 
Searching for God

Originally posted by Persol
Originally posted by Jenyar
Personally I don't see how anybody can search for God and not arrive at Christ some time or another.
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Personally, if someone honestly and sincerely searched for God, they would find themselves. Jesus has NOTHING to do with it. It's just your false belief. The Spirit of God can only be found within the human race. I'm sorry you haven't found God in your life.
 
If it weren't for Jesus I wouldn't know what God would look like in my life. The Spirit of God is with us, but as I said before we are NOT God - it would be more accurate to say "I found Christ in my life", and I base my faith on His.

Otherwise God would be anything I make Him to be. In that sense Flores is right about people who have hijacked religion (and "god"). They make an idol out of religion. The secularisation of religion will always be a real danger to watch out for.

Persol, I think you might be confusing faith and religion. Faith is a gift from God - but each person is unique and therefore has a unique view about faith in God. Faith is the "living according to" a person's picture of God. One Christian might be trying to please God because he thinks God is waiting for him to sin and he fears punishment, another Christian might be taking liberties with the same faith because he think God will forgive everything he does anyway. This is why scripture is so important. It shows us what kind of faith God has approved of or condemned through history. It is when people begin to think they have to ignore history and return to a "pure" faith, that they start creating new doctrines that might actually be a regression.

The question shouldn't be what religion you are following, but which God you are following. All relgions are real in their own right, but not all gods are real. From a Christian perspective: Jesus said people diligently study the scripture because they think they will find eternal life in it, but they forget or don't realize that all scripture points to Him (John 5:39).

Hab.2:4 "but the righteous will live by his faith"
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Jesus said people diligently study the scripture because they think they will find eternal life in it, but they forget or don't realize that all scripture points to Him (John 5:39).
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No, there is a redacted account writted decades after "Jesus".

The Gospel according to John is quite different in character from the three synoptic gospels. It is highly literary and symbolic. It does not follow the same order or reproduce the same stories as the synoptic gospels. To a much greater degree, it is the product of a developed theological reflection and grows out of a different circle and tradition. It was probably written in the 90s of the first century.

New American Bible: John; Introduction
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red]It is today freely accepted that the fourth Gospel underwent a complex development before it reached its final form.

- Introduction to the Gospel of John, The New Jerusalem Bible
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So John is a comprehensive theology that already existed by the 90s.

That means it is a redaction of the teachings before it, doesn't it? A theology doesn't develop out of nothing and still reflect everything that went before it. John is evidently the result of a lot of thinking and study.

Would you care to speculate what he based his theology on, and when those would be dated?
 
The existance of so many religions (abrahamic religions) imply a fact : Scriptures are not enough OR failed, to guide people unitedly towards GOD. There were differences with Jewish clergy and Jesus; There were differences with people of Books (OT,NT) and Muhammad. There were differences with main stream islamic clergy and sufi saints. There are differences among various churches.

The foundation for these differences, mostly, is the interpretaion of How God is interacting with humans.? or the expectation of How God is supposed to intereact with humans.?

Jews see a God as a master creator who makes certain promises and demands, accordingly He rewards or punishes. (a more simplistic rather).

Christians (not necessarily Christ) believe that God sent His Son (for the time being lets forget Trinity aspect) out of love for humanity. Having faith in Jesus is the only way to redemption or way to escape Hell. Love and faith are crucial messages of Christ.

Muhammad said he was the last of the prophets, or so said by God(Allah)/Gabriel. He agreed with all of the prophets before him, including Jesus but did not believe that Jesus was crucified and did not believe that Jesus was the son of God. Sunni-Shia difference was a matter of inheritance of Muhammad's legacy. The gruesome murder of Imam Hussein resulted in permenant split.

Sufism further explored the nature of Allah beyond Quran and ended up saying God is not separate from His own creations but indweller of all His creations. This was apparently not in agreement with Main stream Islam's interpretation of Quran that God (Allah) is supreme and the creations are lowly.

Various Churches differ mainly in how they carry out their bussiness besides their interpretation of Christ or God.


We can see the root cause of differences being in the assertions regarding the ways and nature of God, made by various scriptures and insititutions like Churches and Clergies (Jewish,Christian and Islamic). Once asserted, the supposed ways and nature of God, it becomes the Dogma treated like unquestionable truth. Is God bound by any of our believes (Jewish, Christianity, Islamic) as to how He is OR how He should be..?

How about having an open mind and see them, now.?

The various prophets in OT came to lead their people in different circumstances. Accordingly they differed in their messages and missions.

Jesus and his message of Love and faith in his Gospel aimed at societies strayed away from the words of previous prophets whether Jeswish or otherwise. As for the chruch(es) : It is an institution supposed to offer guidance to the society and to facilitate individuals to follow Christ. They failed to leave the individual alone with his/her Lord. Church(es) is now more powerful/authoritative than Christ. Some churches would do anything for their own survival and popularity.!

Allah as a wrathfull and Merciful one in proper balance, was revealed perfectly suitable for erstwhile paganic restless arab society where power and mercy are a reverred workable combination.

Sufism was a blend of Islam and philosphies of East. Less dogmatic of All.

All the above religions have a common God, as individually they claim. The God of Abraham. Jews would be better off to come out of their long gone special chosen exclusive race belief. Christians would be better off to follow Jesus in their heart and be faithfuls to Jeus rather than being faithful to their church(es). Muslims would be better off praying Allah, the merciful one, rather than a wrathfull God misunderstood to be demanding destruction of unfaithfuls.

All of them should pause and try to see what God has done and how revealed Himself to the rest of the world - the East. Chengis Khan saw God as vastness of Sky and he belived His God was above him where-ever he went - for good or bad.! Far-east have their culture and civilization enhanced by the teachings of Buddha (he never answered to a question 'whether God is there.?'. He left the question to followers to find the truth on their own). Most of South Asia has philosophies - a blend of vedas-buddhism-jainism-sikhism-sufism not rigidly dogmatic&warring.
 
Jesus taught scripture?

Originally posted by Jenyar
If it weren't for Jesus I wouldn't know what God would look like in my life.
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Okay, Jenyar, so your fantasy about God looks like Jesus to you. Although you were created by God and, therefore, responsible to God, you give Jesus credit for everything in your life.

The Spirit of God is with us, but as I said before we are NOT God - it would be more accurate to say "I found Christ in my life", and I base my faith on His.

If you truly have the spirit of God within you, you would be X-like and, therefore, you would not need to follow X. I would agree that you could use X as an example to follow but not to worship. God said to have no other gods before him. You are insulting your Creator with your fantasy god.

Otherwise God would be anything I make Him to be.

You are creating a god out of your fantasy about X dying for your sins--therefore, you think you are saved. That's YOUR fantasy.

In that sense Flores is right about people who have hijacked religion (and "god").

Xians have hijacked religion and 'god.' No other religion has done that--just Xians.

They make an idol out of religion. The secularisation of religion will always be a real danger to watch out for.

Xians have made X their idol. This blasphemes God! Yes, this is a real danger.

Persol, I think you might be confusing faith and religion. Faith is a gift from God - but each person is unique and therefore has a unique view about faith in God. Faith is the "living according to" a person's picture of God. One Christian might be trying to please God because he thinks God is waiting for him to sin and he fears punishment, another Christian might be taking liberties with the same faith because he think God will forgive everything he does anyway. This is why scripture is so important. It shows us what kind of faith God has approved of or condemned through history. It is when people begin to think they have to ignore history and return to a "pure" faith, that they start creating new doctrines that might actually be a regression.

All religions blaspheme our Maker. Xianity is the worst blasphemer of all. Its like putting a belief in a fantasy before one's Creator.

The question shouldn't be what religion you are following, but which God you are following.

There's only one God, YHWH, Allah, its religions that corrupt the soul.

All relgions are real in their own right, but not all gods are real. From a Christian perspective: Jesus said people diligently study the scripture because they think they will find eternal life in it, but they forget or don't realize that all scripture points to Him (John 5:39).

This is bullshit. X, the Rabbi, taught his followers, the Jews, to be good Jews, go to Temple, and read the OT. The NT wasn't even written until long after X was gone (and I don't mean Xified).

Hab.2:4 "but the righteous will live by his faith"

Yes, the faith given to us by the One God, One Creator, One Spirit who made us all. This is what X tried to teach, but the fanatics following him (Saul/Paul) made X into a fantasy god, a false god.

There is no salvation by a fantasy god.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
So John is a comprehensive theology that already existed by the 90s. That means it is a redaction of the teachings before it, doesn't it?
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No, you idiot, it means precisely what it says: that (a) "it was probably written in the 90s of the first century", and (b) it "underwent a complex development before it reached its final form".
 
Originally posted by truth
straight is the gate and narrow is the way.
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holy wow. not the way i learned it in catholic theology (the *original* christians). i specifically remember my religion teacher saying (and i can see her now- her fake blonde hair and kind italian face) 'there are many roads but they all lead to the same place'. it was to explain the catholic policy of religious acceptance.
 
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
No, you idiot, it means precisely what it says: that (a) "it was probably written in the 90s of the first century", and (b) it "underwent a complex development before it reached its final form".
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a)final form: 90s of the first century
b)"complex development" from what material? That is what I'm interested to know from you.
 
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Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
According to what scholarship? Certainly not Jenyar-of-the-70-books.
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Apparently we read the words "written down" differently. Was it first written down, and then underwent a "complex development", or was it developed and subsequently written down? Keep in mind that the culture wasn't literary or peer-reviewed as it is today. Dialogue and personal involvement was preferred and more accessible than written material.

My own view is that the content of John is certainly theological, and its treatment of the gospel is informed by a Jewish/Gnostic background (The religious-historical background of John), but its was based on his assocation and personal experience with Jesus (Source criticism of the gospel of John). I freely acknowledge this is a personal interpretaion of the research, but at least it is based on some analysis of the material.
 
It is really much easier to be a Unitarian Universalist then you can seek truth from human experience not from an allegiance to old writings.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
I freely acknowledge this is a personal interpretaion of the research, but at least it is based on some analysis of the material.
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Jenyar, fraud that you are, you dance around the truth a good deal in order to prop up the textual house of cards that constitutes your storybook.
 
It is when people begin to think they have to ignore history and return to a "pure" faith, that they start creating new doctrines that might actually be a regression.
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I've been telling you this for ages but you never really paid it much attention. Now kindly go read some Sumerian.
 
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