And with the government footing the bill you don't think they wouldn't be pulling the same kind of crap?
Anyway, it's only $500 per year extra. If these guys wanted to smoke, they should have told the truth and paid up.
Smoking a Cigarette
- Thread starter Orleander
- Start date
Anyway, it's only $500 per year extra. If these guys wanted to smoke, they should have told the truth and paid up.
I suppose they could have. But if they start they have to let the company know and pony up the extra $500.
Since I don't smoke, I appreciate my insurance being less than those who do. I don't like my premium going up to cover their health expenses.
I do wonder though when people have to pay more for being above a certain weight.
Yeah, the guy who sells my co. insurance is about 400lbs. And he's asking "we don't have any smokers here, do we?" My thought was "why? do you eat them".
Bad joke, sorry.
Let the businesses give the employees health insurance instead of the taxpayer! Taxpayers are already paying for the poor with welfair, child care as well as many other programs that are already being mismanaged by bureaucrats. Stop the waste in government spending.
LeotheLion
Registered Senior Member
I think that's bang on.
Although it's true that the smokers shouldn't have lied, surely if someone is knowingly obese or lives an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle should be treated with the same stick.
By all means they can impose a smoking ban within working hours/on company property but to dictate what an employee does outside of the workplace is sickening to me.
Unless it interferes with the employees performance I don't see what business it is of the company's.
Another step in the short walk to 1984.
Sorry Asguard, if I find this quite unappealing. Unlike you, I'd prefer to make my own points, rather than act as a Moore-puppet.
Ahhh like you have, I'm sure! Despite the fact that I challenged you to name one third world country that has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States and you didn't? Despite the fact that I pointed out that the US and the EU were not too terribly disparate on the infant mortality rankings and you didn't respond? Despite the fact that you haven't responded to a single point that I've made, except to pimp Moore movies? Asguard, are you reading any of my responses, or do you always fellatiate Michael Moore in this manner?
Ahhh this is impossible. One thing I know from dealing with crackpots on the internet is that once a person has their mind made up, there is no convincing them. Besides, there is no ``best'' way---you like high taxes and no personal responsibility. One makes trade-offs. You're ok with taxing your upper income bracket heavily, and I'm ok with letting them spend their money in other ways. There is no ``proof''.
Certainly this story throws into stark releif the viewpoint that "if we allow socialized medicine, it will sap our freedom because someone else will call the shots over your health choices" seems that the reality is that there's just a shift to someone else pushing you around. And coming from a country with a very good healthcare system - I can tell you catagorically that there is no more government interference on personal health choices than there is in the US.
Likewise there's nothing to stop of taking out additional private cover if we so wish - and its significantly cheaper than the US due to the fact that it has genuine competition and people have a genuine choice.
In terms of taxpayers paying for the poor health choices of others, us Brits have a simple solution - tax the fuck out cigarettes - whenever some lefty NHS doctor makes a statement over smokers costing the NHS too much money and they should therefore have treatment withdrawn, you just quietly point out how much revenue smokers generate for it and they shut up.
I watched sicko recently and did my best not to like it - I'm not a huge MM fan either - but it really is very good - certainly he has exaggerated a few points on the NHS.
last point - the workers shouldn't have lied - if in fact they did
Likewise there's nothing to stop of taking out additional private cover if we so wish - and its significantly cheaper than the US due to the fact that it has genuine competition and people have a genuine choice.
In terms of taxpayers paying for the poor health choices of others, us Brits have a simple solution - tax the fuck out cigarettes - whenever some lefty NHS doctor makes a statement over smokers costing the NHS too much money and they should therefore have treatment withdrawn, you just quietly point out how much revenue smokers generate for it and they shut up.
I watched sicko recently and did my best not to like it - I'm not a huge MM fan either - but it really is very good - certainly he has exaggerated a few points on the NHS.
last point - the workers shouldn't have lied - if in fact they did
LeotheLion
Registered Senior Member
I think I must have misread the article in the first place.
This sounds like a few idiots got what was coming to them.
Nobody is pushing anybody around. They asked the employees an honest question and expected an honest answer. The employees were asked if they were smokers and they lied.
What if the company had asked them if they had records as felons, and were hired bsaed on a clean record? Would it still be ok to lie to the company then?
Not at any point have I defended the the fact that these employees may have been untruthful - I'm merely observing an irony.
I'm just echoing the kind of scaremongering paranoid language that certain conervatives in the US use against having a universal free healthcare system - you are perhaps right to call me up on it - just like you'd be equally correct to call a righty up on saying similar about UFHC - because we both know it would be a lie.
However, my pointing out that this represents a good example of a private healthcare system and employer attempting to influence an individuals personal health choices (again - in case you missed - this is one of the main criticisms of UFHC in the US) is 100% valid and accurate.
Ben on your felony question. Its actually acceptable to either refuse to answer a question "have you gone to jail" or to lie about it in australia because its illegal to ask it (just as its illegal to ask if your married, if you have kids, do you have sex ect). The ONLY time its alowed for them to ask about criminal history (BTW this doesnt just include employers, even at centerlink the question is vollentery) is if your going to be working with children or vulnerable groups in a specifided job where they can ask for a police clearance. If you aplie to be a shelf stacker and they ask you "have you got a criminal record" lie to your hearts content and then report them to industrial relations
As for the stats i will find them latter. At the moment im searching for a new fish tank so i dont have time to trawl the WHO looking for data
As for the stats i will find them latter. At the moment im searching for a new fish tank so i dont have time to trawl the WHO looking for data
Well, you appear to be more familiar than I am with the laws in America. This very well could be the case.
Let me refine my counter-example. In America, one cannot get Federal Student Aide if they have been convicted of a felony. So, suppose you lie on your Aide application, and the government gives you a loan, only to find out that you did (in fact) lie. Can they take the money back?
I gave you a link to them in my post. Unless, of course, you think that whoever edited Wikipedia didn't cut and paste the table correctly...
Not sure what you are driving at old son
what does that have to do with the fact that a corporation attempting to call the shots over an individual's health choices, bears a striking similarity to one of the supposed commie evils of socialised medicine?
umm ben i only have a rough guide to the US legal system. HOWEVER i do know ALOT about industrial law in the AUSTRALIAN system. Im wondering how you missed the refference to centerlink in there. My apologies, i thought you would realise i was talking about it from an australian perspective
From an american one, your slaves, you do what your told both at work and when they ALOW you to leave. You do this for all of your life and then you die. Have fun
Oh and before you dispute me on this, someone else here posted that they do random drug testing at WALMART. You have no privacy laws it seems, the only difference is which company buys you and how generious they CHOSE to be with what you can do outside of your work. Hell in those random piss tests they could also CHOSE to test women for pregnancy or test men for prostate cancer or a whole heep of other things you can use a piss test to find out to see wether your a "reasonable employee"
Oh and just as a side note, no i dont trust wikipedia. Yes i use it if the link fits but i dont trust it. Its not a university grade site. I will get the stats straight from the WHO when i have time. For the moment im busy trying to find out if Red Sea make a marine tank bigger tha 100L
From an american one, your slaves, you do what your told both at work and when they ALOW you to leave. You do this for all of your life and then you die. Have fun
Oh and before you dispute me on this, someone else here posted that they do random drug testing at WALMART. You have no privacy laws it seems, the only difference is which company buys you and how generious they CHOSE to be with what you can do outside of your work. Hell in those random piss tests they could also CHOSE to test women for pregnancy or test men for prostate cancer or a whole heep of other things you can use a piss test to find out to see wether your a "reasonable employee"
Oh and just as a side note, no i dont trust wikipedia. Yes i use it if the link fits but i dont trust it. Its not a university grade site. I will get the stats straight from the WHO when i have time. For the moment im busy trying to find out if Red Sea make a marine tank bigger tha 100L
asgard do you even have a job? Or do you refuse to get one as a sign of protest?
My employer pays me to do a job. If they don't like how I do it, they can fire me. If I don't like how the treat me I can quit. If I didn't want to sign a piece of paper saying I did/didn't smoke, I was free to find another job.
My employer pays me to do a job. If they don't like how I do it, they can fire me. If I don't like how the treat me I can quit. If I didn't want to sign a piece of paper saying I did/didn't smoke, I was free to find another job.
yes i work. I am a cook at the moment and when i finish my degree i will be a paramedic. I will be subject to both breath and piss tests as well having to recive a police clearance because of the reponcablity i have. However i was never subject to it at safeway when i worked on the checkouts. Nor at the places i have worked as a chef. Its MY choice what i do outside work not theres. No employer can restrict what you do on your OWN time in australia, its against industral relations law. Also i know i will ALWAYS have health cover no matter my age and i will have super to live on plus whatever assets i have aquired in my working life. Futher more if i get injured or killed im covered by work cover so I and\or my family will be taken care of.
They aren't restricting them from smoking. They just have to pay more on their insurance. Smokers fall into a high risk category and have to pay more. That's how it is everywhere. Whirlpool has just made it policy that its unfair for non-smokers to pay the high risk fee, so this is what they have done. The smokers lied so they wouldn't have to pay it.
Whirlpool isn't doing random blood/urine tests looking for nicotine or following them around town trying to bust them. Its a paranoid delusion to think so. The idiots said they didn't smoke and then smoked at work. They aren't being punished for smoking, they are bing punished for lying.
Whirlpool isn't doing random blood/urine tests looking for nicotine or following them around town trying to bust them. Its a paranoid delusion to think so. The idiots said they didn't smoke and then smoked at work. They aren't being punished for smoking, they are bing punished for lying.
Who's calling shots? The health insurance company isn't holding a gun to these people's heads telling them not to smoke. The people made a choice to lie, and now they are suffering the consequences of their inhonesty.
I was pointing out that the smokers for this company are asked to pay an extra $500 a year for health insurance, and that in the UK, a similar situation occurs when the government slaps an excessive tax on cigarettes.
I think that you and Asguard are both missing the point.