Slavery Reparations

[jps]

Originally posted by wet1
The quality of an education has much less to do with what the school has and more to do with what the student can be inspired to learn on his own. As example, I never had a computer class. They were not there and available during the time I was in school. I started to get serious about computers when it became evident that that skill would be needed. The method that I learned by was one of read a manual by peicemeal and then try those until they were mine. This literally had nothing to do with any sort of school other than the desire to learn.

People are more likely to be interested in learning about something if they're in an environment in which that thing figures. For computers, if someone doesn't know anyone with a computer, and their school doesn't have any functional computers, its unlikely they'll be interested in them enough to learn more. If neither ones school or environment have anything that will inspire further learning, then one isn't likely to pursue it.

Originally posted by wet1
What school gave me or can give anyone else is only the ability to read and comprehend, after that it is up to the individual. School doesn't have anything to do with it at that stage. My point is that obtaining knowledge through school leaves a lot to be desired and is not truely necessary once one has gained command of basic language skills need to research and understand that. One of the most misunderstood concepts is that school is not the end all, it is only the beginning. No one is going to give you anything. If you want it you must supply the "want to". That doesn't come by watching tv every night.

Not all schools provide even a basic ability to read and comprehend very well.
If reading is hard for someone and viewed as work, they're not likely to look for stuff to read outside of school.

Originally posted by wet1
While I will admit that food, shelter, and clothing come first how many truely are in that situtation in the US at present? I did work to buy my own clothes and for paying for my education. Because I was not rich getting that education required that I bus 50 miles to college each way. Alas I did not have the money to stay in the dorm. Once again, nothing was just handed to me. It is the same for others. It is a matter of what to. How bad you want something has a lot to do with if you will get it. Further, my classes required that I have 2 night courses each semester. I could not ride the bus those nights. I was truely lucky that there was folks in that town that knew my folks and would allow me to stay those 2 nights each week within their home. To this day, I am truely grateful to them.

I don't know how many would genuinely starve if they didn't work, but I'm sure quite a few feel obligated to work to better their situation.
Do you feel that everyone should have to bus 50 miles to school to show that they really want an education?

Originally posted by wet1
I believe that ability will speak for itsself. I believe that want to will speak for itself. I also believe that one must prepare oneself and that no one else can do that for one. It is not quotas that will solve anything. It is individual want-to and desire to obtain those abilities that will.

I'm not suggesting quotas. So your saying that we should leave it alone and do nothing and the problem will go away? This doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[wet1]

My point to all this in the beginning and still is that you don't get something for nothing. Basically, that is what quotas do.

As far as computers, I didn't have one. My work started requiring the skill so I had to learn it. No one I knew had computer knowledge at the time so I had no one to ask.

Nothing replaces drive. The want-to. The tenacity to go for what you want. Many feel that they shouldn't have to try, that it should be given. The world doesn't work that way and never did. Young folks today come to work with the idea they want to start at the top. That doesn't happen either. You start at the bottom and work your way up.

You have just outlined why an education is important. Why reading and writing skills are also important when you made the statement.

If neither ones school or environment have anything that will inspire further learning, then one isn't likely to pursue it.

If one is not likely to pursue it then they have no grounds to complain that they didn't get an even break. You see, once again it is a matter of applying oneself. For those that want it, it is there. It is not a matter of oppurtunity it is a matter of application of ones self.

Not all schools provide even a basic ability to read and comprehend very well.
If reading is hard for someone and viewed as work, they're not likely to look for stuff to read outside of school.

As I stated earlier, they must want it to get it. No one just pours the knowledge in. It is only there if one reaches for it. For those who don't, there is no way to for them to expect better.

Do you feel that everyone should have to bus 50 miles to school to show that they really want an education?

I used that as a true example from my own life that shows limitations can be overcome.

So your saying that we should leave it alone and do nothing and the problem will go away? This doesn't seem to be happening

I am saying as long as we give stuff away without the earning price to get it that those that recieve will always want more. Things given freely are rarely appreciated for what it is. The problem will never go away as long as we play give away. The sooner that people learn you must earn your way the sooner there will be no need of give aways.

 

[spookz]

i'd give em.... 3 generations worth of free college ed. any takers? going going..
i'd give em.... 40 acres and a suv. any takers? going going...

 

[Redoubtable]

The day I have to pay reparations is the day I leave the U.S.A.

 

[spookz]

...was Constitutionally and statutorily sanctioned by the government from 1789-1865

so ahh take it easy, imagine it as some new and improved star wars boondoggle. the govt will pay for everything like it always does thru your taxes. amazing why folks take this so personally. perhaps cos.. the "founding fathers" never intended to have non-whites integrated at the same level as whites, why do i continuously hear all this whining about preconceived entitlements? if you're not white, too bad, and you're lucky enough to live here because all your people wanna be here. this is the best place in the world for any minority and you know it...

heh! oh i almost forgot! did i mention i want reparations for 2 generations of reverse discrimination

 

[jps]

Originally posted by wet1
My point to all this in the beginning and still is that you don't get something for nothing. Basically, that is what quotas do.

I'm not suggesting quotas.

Originally posted by wet1
As far as computers, I didn't have one. My work started requiring the skill so I had to learn it. No one I knew had computer knowledge at the time so I had no one to ask.

you had a job that required computers, so you had exposure to them.

Originally posted by wet1
Nothing replaces drive. The want-to. The tenacity to go for what you want. Many feel that they shouldn't have to try, that it should be given. The world doesn't work that way and never did. Young folks today come to work with the idea they want to start at the top. That doesn't happen either. You start at the bottom and work your way up.

Originally posted by wet1
You have just outlined why an education is important. Why reading and writing skills are also important when you made the statement.

and how inadequate schools can do serious lasting damage to kids.

Originally posted by wet1
If one is not likely to pursue it then they have no grounds to complain that they didn't get an even break. You see, once again it is a matter of applying oneself. For those that want it, it is there. It is not a matter of oppurtunity it is a matter of application of ones self.

Without either education about or exposure to things, there is no way for people to know about things to apply themselves in.

Originally posted by wet1
As I stated earlier, they must want it to get it. No one just pours the knowledge in. It is only there if one reaches for it. For those who don't, there is no way to for them to expect better.

Why should some have to reach so much farther then others?

Originally posted by wet1
I am saying as long as we give stuff away without the earning price to get it that those that recieve will always want more. Things given freely are rarely appreciated for what it is. The problem will never go away as long as we play give away. The sooner that people learn you must earn your way the sooner there will be no need of give aways.

the thing is some people are born with things given to them, and others are born having litle chance to get those things.
I'm just suggesting leveling the playhing field.

 

[spookz]

I'm just suggesting leveling the playhing field

impossible since most white males think that they are now victims of discrimination.

 

[jps]

Originally posted by spookz
I'm just suggesting leveling the playhing field

impossible since most white males think that they are now victims of discrimination.

most? I don't think so. but you're right, its not gonna happen anytime soon.

 

[spookz]

whiteys political and social climate

One of the most controversial issues in the affirmative action debate is its perceived negative impact on large numbers of whites, especially white males. Public opinion polls show that between half and three-fourths of whites believe that, as a group, they are routinely discriminated against. A 1999 poll, commissioned by the Seattle Times, found that 75% of whites agreed with the statement saying that 'Unqualified minorities get hired over qualified whites' most of the time or some of the time. Two-thirds said the same about promotion and 63% said the same about college admission (Seattle Times, 1999; Steeh & Krysan, 1996).

The Social Construction of Reverse Discrimination: The Impact of Affirmative Action on Whites

In short, reverse discrimination is more than just a description of whites being harmed by affirmative action. It is a socially constructed, ideological package that contains an entire set of conservative attitudes about the state of race and gender relations today. It is a codeword for those angry whites who feel threatened by increased competition from people of color and women. Although reverse discrimination is seen as something real, it is actually a socially constructed interpretation of reality that exaggerates and misinterprets the problems that whites genuinely have.

 

[jps]

ugh. i stand corrected.

 

[spookz]

the legacy lives on

Recently discovered public records confirm the use of African-American slave labor in the construction of the two most important structures in the country -- the U.S. Capitol and the White House. Slave labor was also used in the making of two significant statues in Washington, D.C., one of which, the Statue of Freedom, was hoisted atop the dome of the Capitol in 1863.

Ed Hotaling, a Washington-based television producer, is the one who made the discovery. While he was doing research for a program on the buildings, Hotaling unearthed U.S. Treasury promissory notes to slave owners. These documents confirmed that slaves were used in the construction of the Capitol and the White House. The slave owners were promised $5 a month for each of their slaves used in the construction.

In fact, Treasury Department pay slips show that more than two-thirds of the laborers who worked on the buildings (450 out of 650) were of African descent -- 400 slaves and 50 freemen. Twelve slaves were used to cast the Statue of Freedom. more we will understand why the legacy of slavery still haunts us today.

Many folks have a hard time with the notion of reparations for slavery. But what's there to argue with? This latest revelation makes concrete the contributions of slave laborers. Slaves were denied their freedom by the U.S. government. It owes them a debt for this. Since the families of Japanese Americans who were interned in detention camps during World War II received compensation, the descendants of blacks who were enslaved deserve reparations as well.

But reparations are a long way off. In the meantime, the government should take up the suggestion by Watts and Lewis and build a memorial to the slaves who toiled building the Capitol and the White House. It's the least the government can do.

http://www.progressive.org/mpbvmo00.htm


The Mobile & Girard Railroad offered slave owners $180 apiece for use of their slaves in 1856. It is one of 39 slave-built lines that are today part of Norfolk Southern, says San Diego State University expert Ted Kornweibel.

They owned, rented or insured slaves. Loaned money to plantation owners. Helped hunt down the runaways. Some of America's most respected companies have slavery in their pasts. Now, 137 years after the final shots of the Civil War, will there be a reckoning? A powerhouse team of African-American legal and academic stars is getting ready to sue companies it says profited from slavery before 1865. Initially, the group's aim is to use lawsuits and the threat of litigation to squeeze apologies and financial settlements from dozens of corporations. Ultimately, it hopes to gain momentum for a national apology and a massive reparations payout by Congress to African-Americans.

# Insurers Aetna, New York Life and AIG and financial giants J.P. Morgan Chase Manhattan Bank and FleetBoston Financial Group.
# Investment banks Brown Bros. Harriman and Lehman Bros.
# Railroads Norfolk Southern, CSX, Union Pacific and Canadian National.
# Textile maker WestPoint Stevens.
# Newspaper publishers Knight Ridder, Tribune, Media General, Advance Publications, E.W. Scripps and Gannett, parent and publisher of USA TODAY

http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-reparations.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-insurance-policies.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-newspapers.htm


the precedents

hmm lets see.. the interned japanese were given stuff, the holocaust guys got some $8 billion from corporations (without a legal judgement against them) so why not the blacks. dig deep into those pockets whitey, time to pay up!

when france abolished slavery in haiti it offered reparations not to the slaves but the slave owners (loss of income?). the us, a bit nicer, offered 40 acres and a mule

 

[grazzhoppa]

racism lives on too

Where did the idea of reparations begin and when? It sounds like an idea that came from a civil-rights era, radical black man.

It would be interesting to poll all of african americans (not all black americans as not all their ancestors were given to slavery). And see the most widely held reasons for monetary reparations. Could it be to "heal 400 years of oppression"? Or is it "just and right" that today's african americans benefit from their ancestor's pain and suffering and injustice.

Money doesn't make people forgive, it only makes them happy.

Maybe when civil-rights era blacks and their children and then their children are dead, this issue will be absurd as the way we think about slavery and african americans' ancestors.