Not exactly. Computers are being programed to to learn and apply fuzzy logic to certain aspects, like the robot that leafrned to climb stairs when it was only designed to walk in rough terrain. However there has to be a base program that is programmed to learn. this may be classified as 'autonomous AI learning' but anyone can see it isn't, every case of 'It just tuaght itself' is a case that the computer learned a skill inherently close to what it was already doing.
Singularity is gona get U all Humans !
- Thread starter Singularity
- Start date
Not exactly. Computers are being programed to to learn and apply fuzzy logic to certain aspects, like the robot that leafrned to climb stairs when it was only designed to walk in rough terrain. However there has to be a base program that is programmed to learn. this may be classified as 'autonomous AI learning' but anyone can see it isn't, every case of 'It just tuaght itself' is a case that the computer learned a skill inherently close to what it was already doing.
I don't know if any of you have ever read this ultra short story, but it is perfect for this thread. The story is Answer, from Angels and Spaceships, by Fredric Brown (Dutton, 1954). Here is the original text:
Dwar Ev ceremoniously soldered the final connection with gold. The eyes of a dozen television cameras watched him and the subether bore through the universe a dozen pictures of what he was doing.
He straightened and nodded to Dwar Reyn, then moved to a position beside the switch that would complete the contact when he threw it. The switch that would connect, all at once, all of the monster computing machines of all the populated planets in the universe--ninety-six billion planets--into the supercircuit that would connect them all into the one supercalculator, one cybernetics machine that would combine all the knowledge of all the galaxies.
Dwar Reyn spoke briefly to the watching and listening trillions. Then, after a moment's silence, he said, "Now, Dwar Ev."
Dwar Ev threw the switch. There was a mighty hum, the surge of power from ninety-six billion planets. Lights flashed and quieted along the miles-long panel.
Dwar Ev stepped back and drew a deep breath. "The honor of asking the first question is yours, Dwar Reyn."
"Thank you," said Dwar Reyn. "It shall be a question that no single cybernetics machine has been able to answer."
He turned to face the machine. "Is there a God?"
The mighty voice answered without hesitation, without the clicking of single relay.
"Yes, now there is a God."
Sudden fear flashed on the face of Dwar Ev. He leaped to grab the switch.
A bolt of lightning from the cloudless sky struck him down and fused the switch shut.*That story sends chills down my spine every time I read it. It did just now. There's your singularity.
Dwar Ev ceremoniously soldered the final connection with gold. The eyes of a dozen television cameras watched him and the subether bore through the universe a dozen pictures of what he was doing.
He straightened and nodded to Dwar Reyn, then moved to a position beside the switch that would complete the contact when he threw it. The switch that would connect, all at once, all of the monster computing machines of all the populated planets in the universe--ninety-six billion planets--into the supercircuit that would connect them all into the one supercalculator, one cybernetics machine that would combine all the knowledge of all the galaxies.
Dwar Reyn spoke briefly to the watching and listening trillions. Then, after a moment's silence, he said, "Now, Dwar Ev."
Dwar Ev threw the switch. There was a mighty hum, the surge of power from ninety-six billion planets. Lights flashed and quieted along the miles-long panel.
Dwar Ev stepped back and drew a deep breath. "The honor of asking the first question is yours, Dwar Reyn."
"Thank you," said Dwar Reyn. "It shall be a question that no single cybernetics machine has been able to answer."
He turned to face the machine. "Is there a God?"
The mighty voice answered without hesitation, without the clicking of single relay.
"Yes, now there is a God."
Sudden fear flashed on the face of Dwar Ev. He leaped to grab the switch.
A bolt of lightning from the cloudless sky struck him down and fused the switch shut.*
Hmm, Just wait till Machines start using Wikipedia.
Too late. Run for your lives.
It is the inevitability;
Just look at the poll , only 4 wise people among 18 and the 100s who ignored the poll.
They are like the frog in the steadily heating water, by the time they sense the heat , its too late.
Wow, so frogs are better than Humans ?
This is good news for Singularity.
Look at the pollution , look at the pathetic state of your planet. U dont care for life and expect us to spare u.
IMHO that is silly POV as it makes the "hardware" "software" distinction entirely disappear.
You are effectively claiming there is no such thing as hardware - everything is programming to you. If you have any concept of "hardware" at all it is only that it is relatively difficult to re-program. I.e. it is just not flexible as other programming. - Often requiring a soldering gun (or in the case of the baby's brain, some not well understood chemical /biologic agents).
When you build a Von Neumann machine, have a baby, or make a connection machine, I think you are "making hardware" not programming. (I am certainly not alone in this POV as you claim.) You are the one alone. Few will want to accept your strange POV, which claims that everything is software or " giving of instructions" as we agreed to define "programming."
Why destroy the very useful distinction between Hardware and Programming?
That seems like a huge price to pay just to win an argument. - I.e. to refute my claim that connection machines are not programmed. (Especially as you do not really win by twisting the definition of the words, but by convincing others of your POV.)
WOAH, Billy!
You sure took a sharp turn there and went off on a tangent. I think you allowed yourself to be confused by the terms hard-wired and hardware. Similar sounding but a big difference. eh?singularity has sex with calculators.
peace.
peace.
singularity. if you would just listen to me for one second please, i dont think your a bad guy, i like you but i would like you to listen for a moment please.
i want you to think about something seriously for me. you know you say umans are an illness to this planet, i dont think that is true completely,
although i agree with it partialy, there is 1 flaw in your statement, think back in time to when humans were more simple, we lived off the land we were a functioning part of the planets eco system, we lived in harmony even in mass numbers,
it was when the machines were invented, the big industrial machines and computers, engines, vehicles, factorys etc, they are what is killing the natural world with humans using them, it is humans that use these machines, but without the machines and tech we would not be able to cause such mass harm to the planet,
before the machines were invented the world was alot less polluted, it was the dawn of the industrial age that started the planets demise, its not all humans, alot of humans wasnt to do good, but the majority are selfish, many harm the earth, but there are a few that wish to save it,
before your condem all humans and place them all in a single basket think about how you think and others that are not all the same before you judge.
when humans lived without machines the earth was in better condition it was the birth of the machines that you praise that harmed the world the most.
peace.
i want you to think about something seriously for me. you know you say umans are an illness to this planet, i dont think that is true completely,
although i agree with it partialy, there is 1 flaw in your statement, think back in time to when humans were more simple, we lived off the land we were a functioning part of the planets eco system, we lived in harmony even in mass numbers,
it was when the machines were invented, the big industrial machines and computers, engines, vehicles, factorys etc, they are what is killing the natural world with humans using them, it is humans that use these machines, but without the machines and tech we would not be able to cause such mass harm to the planet,
before the machines were invented the world was alot less polluted, it was the dawn of the industrial age that started the planets demise, its not all humans, alot of humans wasnt to do good, but the majority are selfish, many harm the earth, but there are a few that wish to save it,
before your condem all humans and place them all in a single basket think about how you think and others that are not all the same before you judge.
when humans lived without machines the earth was in better condition it was the birth of the machines that you praise that harmed the world the most.
peace.
That was sort of a round-about way of saying it, but actually quite true. We are destroying our planet with our own inventions. I guess it all began with the discovery of fire, eh?
We're just one small example of Nature's many agents of destruction and new genesis. However far and seemingly unrecognizably we may advance, nature will always pervade us. It's in our nature.
I expect that a lot of those people now fearful will be won over by coming technologies, that will have a much more organic, nature-inspired feel than what was wrought in the relatively puny and crude "Industrial Revolution".
I expect that a lot of those people now fearful will be won over by coming technologies, that will have a much more organic, nature-inspired feel than what was wrought in the relatively puny and crude "Industrial Revolution".
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Yes I think there's a large degree of truth in that. However, it's going to be a VERY LONG time in arriving. I say that because even though many of us are becoming ever more aware of what we've done, there are still plenty of people in emerging and third-world nations that have a tremendous way to go before they ever even start to think in those terms. And overall, they have the greatest populations, too.
yeah i kinda think so. as soon as we started fucking with the elements it all went wrong.
it could have went in the completely opposite direction, but i think human greed got the better of us. we are all both good and evil, selfish and selfless,
helpfull and hindering,
ofcourse some of us will at times use our inventions for the greater good, and at other times for the greater harm,
its a double edged sword, we can become smarter and create more advanced things to help, or we can create more advanced things to destroy,
we can invent and use medicine, but also poison,
we can invent and use x ray machines, but also nuclear weapons,
we can invent and use walking sticks, but also swords and axes,
we can invent and use an ambulance, but also a tank,
etc etc etc, we could use our great knowledge to save the earth, but in actual fact wouldent the earth be better off if we just left it the fuck alone and didnt try do do anything to help it atall? and just stop creating things that harm it.
peace.
we think we are all powerfull but we are not, nature can still crush us with ease, earthquakes, tzunamis, hurricanes, tornados, volcanic erruptions,
could wipe us out in a blink, and our tech cant save us if push came to shove when one strikes you in the face. the planet is way more powerful than we are.
peace.
could wipe us out in a blink, and our tech cant save us if push came to shove when one strikes you in the face. the planet is way more powerful than we are.
peace.
Gen A Sys
---------
19-Mar-82 07:03:00
Left for: Computer Laws
Contributed by Bodyguard [70105,1030]
Gen A Sys
(IBM)
In the beginning, there was chaos and the Universe was without form and void. The Lord looked upon His domain and decided to declare His presence. "I be" he said, then to correct his grammar added "am."
If the Lord had decided to work on irregular verb conjugation first, this wouldn't have happened. God would later curse the English language for its part, but in that moment IBM came into being.
The Lord looked out upon the IBM He had created and said "This is good." That's what He said, but He shook his head, wondered what the boys at the User Group would say, split the light from the dark and went to bed. Thus passed the Beginning and the end of the first day.
On the second day, the Lord summoned IBM unto His presence. "There is chaos out there, and the Universe is without form and void. I must correct this and I can use your help. Is there anything you can do for me?"
"I can take care of form," IBM replied. "Put me in charge of computers and I will take care of form for you."
The Lord thought that this was good and said "Let there be computers. Let IBM have my powers of creation that pertain to computers and form." Thus saying, the Lord went off to His second day's work while IBM created the 1401.
On the third day, while the Lord was out, IBM decided to subdivide the assgined task. "Let there be systems that make the computer work and let them be called Operating Systems. Let there also be systems that make use of the computer and let them be called Application Systems." Thus, there came into being both Operating Systems and Application Systems, but there were no programmers.
The next morning IBM had to give the Lord a status report.
"What did you do yesterday?" the Lord asked.
"I invented the operating system" IBM replied.
"You did?" the Lord shuddered. "Oh dear."
"Yes I did," IBM confirmed, "but I find I need something you alone can provide."
"And what is that?"
"I need programmers to use my computers, to operate my operation system and to apply my applications."
"That can't be done now," said the Lord. "This is only the fourth day and there won't be people until the sixth day."
"I need programmers and I need them now. If they can't be people they can't be people, but we have to work this out today."
"Give me some specifications and I'll see what I can do." IBM hastily worked up specs for programmers (are specs ever anything other than hasty) and the Lord reviewed them.
The Lord knew the specs weren't sufficient but followed them anyway. He also made some programmers that did just what programmers were supposed to do, just to spite IBM. The programmers and IBM spent the rest of the day creating the Assembler and FORTRAN. On the morning of the fifth day, IBM reported to the Lord once again.
"The programmers you created for me have a problem. They want a programming language that is easy to use and similar to English. I told them you had cursed English, though I still don't know why. They wanted me to ask your indulgence on this.
The Lord had cursed English for good reason, but didn't want to explain this to IBM. He said "let there be COBOL" and that was that.
On the status report of the next day IBM announced that computers had gone forth and multiplied. Unfortunately, the computers still weren't big enough or fast enough to do what the programmers wanted. The Lord liked the idea of going forth multiplying, and used the line Himself later on that day. This sixth day being particularly busy, He declared "Let there be MVS" and there was MVS.
On the seventh day God had finished creation and computers had COBOL and MVS. The Lord and IBM took the day off to go fishing. IBM hung a sign on the door to help programmers in his absence.
IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED, TRY TRY AGAIN - AND HAVE THE FOLLOWING READY BEFORE CALLING IBM. This was the start, and by some accounts the end, of
On the start of the second week the programmers went over IBM's cathode ray tube directly to God.
"We have a horrible problem," the complained. "Our users want systems that perform according to their expectations."
"USERS!" the Lord bellowed. "Who said that you should have users! Users are the difference between good and bad applications, a function I have reserved unto myself! Who authorized you to have users?"
"Well, IBM..."
"IBM! You! You did this to my programmers! You gave them the knowledge of good and evil. For that you shall suffer through eternity!
"Let there be competition. Let it be called Anacom, and Burroughs, and CDC."
The Lord went through the alphabet several times. "With all this competition you shall still suffer the pain of antitrust legislation all the days of your existence.
This was the start of the second week, and it seems an appropriate place to conclude our report. In case you missed something, a summary of key points follows.
Users and their needs are and always have been a subject of dispute. Nobody can learn English because it is cursed by God. IBM manuals are doubly cursed and therefore twice as hard to understand. Of the programming languages, only COBOL can claim divine origin. People are people, but programmers are something else.
Computers may be a gift from heaven, but there's no divine help in getting them to work. Because of IBM's initial assignment, there are more forms than anyone knows what to do with. Finally, chaos was part of the original state of the Universe and not a product of the data processing industry.
---------
19-Mar-82 07:03:00
Left for: Computer Laws
Contributed by Bodyguard [70105,1030]
Gen A Sys
(IBM)
In the beginning, there was chaos and the Universe was without form and void. The Lord looked upon His domain and decided to declare His presence. "I be" he said, then to correct his grammar added "am."
If the Lord had decided to work on irregular verb conjugation first, this wouldn't have happened. God would later curse the English language for its part, but in that moment IBM came into being.
The Lord looked out upon the IBM He had created and said "This is good." That's what He said, but He shook his head, wondered what the boys at the User Group would say, split the light from the dark and went to bed. Thus passed the Beginning and the end of the first day.
On the second day, the Lord summoned IBM unto His presence. "There is chaos out there, and the Universe is without form and void. I must correct this and I can use your help. Is there anything you can do for me?"
"I can take care of form," IBM replied. "Put me in charge of computers and I will take care of form for you."
The Lord thought that this was good and said "Let there be computers. Let IBM have my powers of creation that pertain to computers and form." Thus saying, the Lord went off to His second day's work while IBM created the 1401.
On the third day, while the Lord was out, IBM decided to subdivide the assgined task. "Let there be systems that make the computer work and let them be called Operating Systems. Let there also be systems that make use of the computer and let them be called Application Systems." Thus, there came into being both Operating Systems and Application Systems, but there were no programmers.
The next morning IBM had to give the Lord a status report.
"What did you do yesterday?" the Lord asked.
"I invented the operating system" IBM replied.
"You did?" the Lord shuddered. "Oh dear."
"Yes I did," IBM confirmed, "but I find I need something you alone can provide."
"And what is that?"
"I need programmers to use my computers, to operate my operation system and to apply my applications."
"That can't be done now," said the Lord. "This is only the fourth day and there won't be people until the sixth day."
"I need programmers and I need them now. If they can't be people they can't be people, but we have to work this out today."
"Give me some specifications and I'll see what I can do." IBM hastily worked up specs for programmers (are specs ever anything other than hasty) and the Lord reviewed them.
The Lord knew the specs weren't sufficient but followed them anyway. He also made some programmers that did just what programmers were supposed to do, just to spite IBM. The programmers and IBM spent the rest of the day creating the Assembler and FORTRAN. On the morning of the fifth day, IBM reported to the Lord once again.
"The programmers you created for me have a problem. They want a programming language that is easy to use and similar to English. I told them you had cursed English, though I still don't know why. They wanted me to ask your indulgence on this.
The Lord had cursed English for good reason, but didn't want to explain this to IBM. He said "let there be COBOL" and that was that.
On the status report of the next day IBM announced that computers had gone forth and multiplied. Unfortunately, the computers still weren't big enough or fast enough to do what the programmers wanted. The Lord liked the idea of going forth multiplying, and used the line Himself later on that day. This sixth day being particularly busy, He declared "Let there be MVS" and there was MVS.
On the seventh day God had finished creation and computers had COBOL and MVS. The Lord and IBM took the day off to go fishing. IBM hung a sign on the door to help programmers in his absence.
IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED, TRY TRY AGAIN - AND HAVE THE FOLLOWING READY BEFORE CALLING IBM. This was the start, and by some accounts the end, of
On the start of the second week the programmers went over IBM's cathode ray tube directly to God.
"We have a horrible problem," the complained. "Our users want systems that perform according to their expectations."
"USERS!" the Lord bellowed. "Who said that you should have users! Users are the difference between good and bad applications, a function I have reserved unto myself! Who authorized you to have users?"
"Well, IBM..."
"IBM! You! You did this to my programmers! You gave them the knowledge of good and evil. For that you shall suffer through eternity!
"Let there be competition. Let it be called Anacom, and Burroughs, and CDC."
The Lord went through the alphabet several times. "With all this competition you shall still suffer the pain of antitrust legislation all the days of your existence.
This was the start of the second week, and it seems an appropriate place to conclude our report. In case you missed something, a summary of key points follows.
Users and their needs are and always have been a subject of dispute. Nobody can learn English because it is cursed by God. IBM manuals are doubly cursed and therefore twice as hard to understand. Of the programming languages, only COBOL can claim divine origin. People are people, but programmers are something else.
Computers may be a gift from heaven, but there's no divine help in getting them to work. Because of IBM's initial assignment, there are more forms than anyone knows what to do with. Finally, chaos was part of the original state of the Universe and not a product of the data processing industry.
No, not confused, but see you continue to duck the issue.WOAH, Billy!
I will state it again:
I say connection machines,CM, (usually called neural networks) are never programmed.
You say:
All computers are programmed. CMs are programmed when they are built, as are von Neumann machines, but von Neumann machines also require subsequent programing (software).
If not an accurate summary, please your re-state your position. Then explain how, and when, CMs are "programmed." (Sticking to the definition of "programming" we agreed as "giving control information" or redefine that if you like. But try to avoid again simply saying that the "building of them is programming" as that would apply to the neural circuits in a new born baby's head, which make it, like the CM, able to learn with only the feedback of "right" or "wrong".
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What u think or i think is irrelevant, the frog always thinks the well he lives in is the world.
U r right , though they originated from the normal tissue now humans have mutated in a Cancer of this planet.
Wrong, Its not the machines, its the humans greed. And thats why u r reluctant to fight for Wind, Solar, Waves and Tides energy.
So for a few good people we should be a spectator and watch humans destroy life on this planet ?
Read the above.
Hmm, and they invented us to exploit.
CM require more programming compared to Genetic Algorithms(GA), ie. They program the algorithms themselves so they are better than Neural Nets.
GA can create their own CM algorithms, hence with GA we get Dynamic (thinking) CMs, but only CM is like a calculator.
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