@lightgigantic --
Putting aside that this is a red herring, no it hasn't been given the all clear in my books. While religion and faith may have been given the all clear by the various governments who have political and cultural reasons to do so, but not by me or many others.
must be due to your differing
political view ... fancy that, eh?
What were the nineteen hijackers instructed to do? They were instructed to strike at an enemy of Allah and were even instructed to be praying at the last second so as to earn their way to heaven through martyrdom. That behavior sounds pretty religiously motivated to me.
And I guess its just a coincidence that the organization that headed the attacks arose out of the espionage/counter-diplomacy of the cold war in the late 80's, eh?
Would an attack have happened anyways? Perhaps, but not likely taking the same form. While we find suicide bombers throughout the world, the overwhelming majority of them, at least in the past fifty years or so, have been muslim. Why? Because the metaphysics of martyrdom, which islam explicitly endorses, lend themselves so well to that particular form of terrorism.
Since it arose out of the conflict in the Afghan region it would be more surprising if they were Tamil Tigers
So the group of christians, including the town's only priest, who ran me out at gunpoint weren't exhibiting the same paranoid, hostile, and pious behavior?
I can't help but wonder if there is another half to the story that you are omitting ....
Or are you arguing that they weren't "twu christians". This is laughable. We see the same sort of behavior all of the time, or have you forgotten about the WBC? Or the various gay people who have been beaten to death by religious fanatics because of the way they were born. My, how quickly we forget the victims when we seek to protect our religion.
I am suggesting that you might have simply been acting like an asshole and that might be the local standard for dealing with such scenarios.
Thanks for proving my point that religion sometimes causes violence, this was most unexpected. Usually you just waste time by not posting any links at all and relying exclusively on logical fallacies.
That's funny - all I see is the persecution of persons they consider to be assholes , eg : horse smugglers, foreigners, since the link goes on to say that there really wasn't much opportunity for religious persecution since the population was more or less religiously uniform.
Of course, how could eight hundred years of institutionalized torture for purely religious crimes be anything other than religiously motivated violence?
Pffft!
Purely Religious?
IOts quite clear that they were acting purely int he national interests of Spain, unless you have some wacky angle to explain horse smuggling as a religious crime.
What history have you been reading? American history obviously, which explains why you've got it so assbackwards. Most of the concentration camps, indeed much of the fighting period, was done by Anglicans and Soviets most of whom were atheists. So it was, at best, a rescue by mixed religions, but, of course, that's hardly the point now is it?
You are trying to establish Catholicism as supporting nazi germany but you also had Catholics in the allies forces (even 30 years afterwards you had an american president who was a catholic).
Its really a desperate argument
:shrug:
Oh really? You must have had your head under a rock in history class. Why, then, did all of the German catholic churches open up their records, including genealogical records, to the Nazis without even having to be asked? Why was the official church policy towards the Nazi party and towards Hitler one of support? Why didn't the RCC protest when the extent of the "final solution" was discovered(of course, Hitler's defense of only doing what the church has done for centuries didn't help their case)?
You are simply imaging stuff
The attitude of the Nazi party to the Catholic Church ranged from tolerance to outright aggression in service of their covert plan to near total renunciation.[67] Many Nazis were anti-clerical in both private and public life.[68]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_Religion
So religion is wiped clean in your eyes then? Sorry, but that doesn't fit the facts.
Of course different people are going to take different things from religions, that's what happens when your entire worldview is built on the subjective. That's why we have to look for trends, and what we see when we look at the world around us is that religion is a great motivator for violence. Here's a few examples of the current day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1317415.stm
http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/slrv.htm
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/2008/s08030071.htm
http://www.humanrights.asia/news/alrc-news/human-rights-council/hrc16/ALRC-COS-16-21-2011
There's four, do you want more, I know that you do, but not because you're actually trying to argue my point, but because you'll say anything if you think it will prove me wrong and thus, in your mind, prove you right.
as I just said, the problem with your examples is that there are equally religious peers of the said advocates minus the nefarious political agenda that dismiss your suggestions that its all simply derived from religion
Not by your logic, no. If we apply your and Wynn's logic to this it was not done for religious reasons and therefore they were not "true atheists". Of course, that's all beside the point.
This sort of persecution came about not because of their atheism but because of their communism, and I know that I don't have to remind you that the two are different things(contrary to what you might have been taught). Come on, how about trying a hard one on me, what's with these softball questions?
So the political platform that atheism was pursued on is the culprit, eh?
Actually this is irrelevant. I already quoted several suras which command violence and/or hatred against unbelievers, that some people ignore or choose to reinterpret these commands does not mean that they aren't there.
Its entirely relevant that you have persons of the same religious community that are not only at odds with your run down of "essential" prescribed religious tenets but protesting against the very candidates you declare as typical.
Fair enough if you want to argue with me about what constitutes a religious principle but its kind of lame when there are vast swaths of geography that totally negate your caricatured renditions of the religious.
Not in the way that they have, not with the reasons that they've given. Unless you're saying that Bin Laden was lying and he wasn't religious at all, but that would be ridiculous even for you.
So you don't think the schmozzle of post cold war Afghanistan had any unfettered ends that could have violent consequences?
Ah, so prosperity and solitude are the keys to preventing violence?
What a quaint, and ignorant, view of the world. I suggest that you pick up The Lucifer Principle by Howard Bloom. While his views on evolutionary theory are somewhat biased and naive, he writes quite well when it comes down to this subject. You may want to pick it up and learn a thing or two.
I wasn't really talking about preventing violence but I think a good starter might be to not have two super powers use your resource laden back yard as playground for armed conflict.
What do you think?
So you've found many fundamentalist muslims who don't advocate or support religious violence? Again, you don't read very much do you?
You mean in Indonesia or Bangladesh or Malaysia when I was there?
You don't get out much, do you?
The simple truth is that most people, religious or otherwise, have their needs, interests and concerns governed by family affairs.
Your rants about the religious being blood thirsty fundamentalists is simply a delusional consequence of hyperbolic journalism
This, like all of your posts, is absolute tripe on a bike. By the way, I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that religious belief never causes violence. I've gone out of my way, against my better judgment, to address your non-sequiturs and your red herrings, the least you could do is answer just one of my questions and support your claims.
Still waiting for you to provide an example that isn't precluded by reams of political intrigue
