Should science replace religion?

[ThazzarBaal]

Exactly, but then we also know how the Earth formed and how long it took. That should render religion moot altogether.

Why so? Why would the how's and timelines render religion moot? The significance of religion is no less applicable today than it was 1000 years ago. I don't understand your line of reasoning.

 

[kx000]

Exactly, but then we also know how the Earth formed and how long it took. That should render religion moot altogether.

Belief is not just ultimate power, but the journey as well. Hope is an angel in descent who has suffered a fall as a human in the messianic path. A fallen angel is a divine being who suffers, and then goes on to here after into divine bliss and salvation, as the epithet of fallen lovers. Basically it has the power to justify and prove there is a God to human beings, all you have to do is accept him and you see truth in God. IMHO hate, and fear are the ultimate fallen angels. Hate is the ultimate war path, and fear is the secret.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Belief is not just ultimate power, but the journey as well. Hope is an angel in descent who has suffered in the messianic path. A fallen angel is a divine being who suffers, and then goes on to here after into divine bliss and salvation, as the epithet of fallen lovers, and it has the power to ratify God, to human beings.

Space travel at the speed of flight - Earth ages and dying stars, falling or being born again? Black hole portals and a new birth - cosmic ocean and tide coupled with imploding super nova type expansion. Fallen lovers? Hmm - interesting take on a new addition to the cosmic family.

 

[Write4U]

Why so? Why would the how's and timelines render religion moot? The significance of religion is no less applicable today than it was 1000 years ago. I don't understand your line of reasoning.

It seems that there is only one accurate description of the evolution of the universe and everything therein and it isn't religious Scripture.

You are talking in terms of human existence without regard that before humans "evolved" the universe was already 13.8 billion years old. What does scripture have to say about that?

Religion is a refined reaction to the "fight or flight" instinct and was already present in more rudimentary forms long before man arrived on the scene.

 

[Write4U]

Belief is not just ultimate power, but the journey as well. Hope is an angel in descent who has suffered a fall as a human in the messianic path. A fallen angel is a divine being who suffers, and then goes on to here after into divine bliss and salvation, as the epithet of fallen lovers. Basically it has the power to justify and prove there is a God to human beings, all you have to do is accept him and you see truth in God. IMHO hate, and fear are the ultimate fallen angels. Hate is the ultimate ominous one, and fear is the secret.

Space travel at the speed of flight - Earth ages and dying stars, falling or being born again? Black hole portals and a new birth - cosmic ocean and tide coupled with imploding super nova type expansion. Fallen lovers? Hmm - interesting take on a new addition to the cosmic family.

Pretty poetry, but not science.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

It seems that there is only one accurate description of the evolution of the universe and everything therein and it isn't religious Scripture.

You are talking in terms of human existence without regard that before humans "evolved" the universe was already 13.8 billion years old. What does scripture have to say about that?

Religion is a refined reaction to the "fight or flight" instinct and was already present in more rudimentary forms long before man arrived on the scene.

You didn't answer my question...still. Why would any of this make religion moot? It's a simple question. Why would you think timelines and how the earth was formed a reason to deem religion moot or insignificant?

Will you explain your last paragraph? I have no idea what you're referring to.

 

[Write4U]

Why would you think timelines and how the earth was formed a reason to deem religion moot or insignificant?

Because religion is a human invention and the Universe existed long before man came onto the scene. It did quite well without religion.

Will you explain your last paragraph? I have no idea what you're referring to.

Ever watched a dog cower in a corner during a thunderstorm? What do you think he experiences? It's unadulterated fear!
Ever watched an Alpha Chimpanzee practice passive/aggressive rituals unto the "unseen powerful beings in the sky" that make loud noises (thunder), and throw fire (lightning) and water (rain) that makes his family wet and miserable?
It is the Apes that created the first gods.
Humans just refined the rituals with a lot more bells and whistles and pointy hats.

 

[Michael 345]

No, but it can work in conjunction with religion. It can likewise help lead religious thought and of course vice versa, given the way religion champions truth. The essence of truth - it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge validity of belief or reason for. The same is true for those opposed to scientific and secular efforts of understanding.

Utter crap. Religion had the opportunity to morph into science but those involved decided on religion

My guess is with religion they can be the mystic wise ones without doing any work

With science it first takes effort to work out what is happening and then why and then the real WHY (ie the WHY are we here WHY)

The WHY are we here WHY should be the easiest to answer ie the laws of physics allows such a situation FULL STOP

Unfortunately for some reason our reasoning breaks down and WHY becomes WHAT REASON ARE WE HERE FOR?

Spoiler

None

Of course that seems ridiculous

Perfect breeding ground for con artist who can provide a reason - invent a god

This magical entity made all this for us to live in and as a special treat if we are good we get upgraded to heaven

But it works on a significant portion of the population of the planet

There is lots more to rant about, from other angles, but another time

I'm sure NASA would have come into being sooner had it received the money donated to religion

We might have even gotten from
Earth to the Moon in 97 Hours, 20 Minutes in 1865 with Jules at the helm

 

[Write4U]

Why so? Why would the how's and timelines render religion moot? The significance of religion is no less applicable today than it was 1000 years ago.

Oh yes it is!

I don't understand your line of reasoning.

Ricky Gervais gave the most persuasive short argument I have heard.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Because religion is a human invention and the Universe existed long before man came onto the scene. It did quite well without religion.
Ever watched a dog cower in a corner during a thunderstorm? What do you think he experiences? It's unadulterated fear!
Ever watched an Alpha Chimpanzee practice passive/aggressive rituals unto the "unseen powerful beings in the sky" that make loud noises (thunder), and throw fire (lightning) and water (rain) that makes his family wet and miserable?
It is the Apes that created the first gods.
Humans just refined the rituals with a lot more bells and whistles and pointy hats.

Interesting take on religion. I'm curious, from whom do you fashion your views? So the universe existed prior to humans. Relevance? Thinking creative beings came on the scene began to question things. Hmm .... Came up with philosophy, religion, science, art, music, dance, etc. Thinking logically as well, I'm sure ... For the time. Moot isn't even on the radar. I'm suggesting the reason for belief systems are real, valid, logical, and needed - at least at one time if not still. I fail to understand your line of reasoning - to suggest anything factual makes religion moot. It makes no sense - misunderstood maybe but not moot.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Utter crap. Religion had the opportunity to morph into science but those involved decided on religion

My guess is with religion they can be the mystic wise ones without doing any work

With science it first takes effort to work out what is happening and then why and then the real WHY (ie the WHY are we here WHY)

The WHY are we here WHY should be the easiest to answer ie the laws of physics allows such a situation FULL STOP

Unfortunately for some reason our reasoning breaks down and WHY becomes WHAT REASON ARE WE HERE FOR?

Spoiler

None

Of course that seems ridiculous

Perfect breeding ground for con artist who can provide a reason - invent a god

This magical entity made all this for us to live in and as a special treat if we are good we get upgraded to heaven

But it works on a significant portion of the population of the planet

There is lots more to rant about, from other angles, but another time

I'm sure NASA would have come into being sooner had it received the money donated to religion

We might have even gotten from
Earth to the Moon in 97 Hours, 20 Minutes in 1865 with Jules at the helm

I like the why questions, so I attempt to apply them to religious thought also. Why this law or that principle? Why did this guy do what he did or say what he said or why was so and so forced to leave wherever they were prior to leaving? The why questions matter ... Particularly when contemplating religious belief, given the way religion has come to be viewed by those who champion critical thinking and logic. Maybe lack of interest is the culprit or is it a sheep mentality in terms of atheistic thought and religious disdain?

 

[Write4U]

Interesting take on religion. I'm curious, from whom do you fashion your views? So the universe existed prior to humans. Relevance?

Humans are no more relevant to the universe than ants.

Thinking creative beings came on the scene began to question things.

Yes, and that question was based on the survival instinct in living organisms of "fight or flight" in the face of an "unseen potential threat"

Hmm .... Came up with philosophy, religion, science, art, music, dance, etc.

Mostly borrowed from the behaviors of the organisms that came before us.
Lest you have forgotten, the insect invented "flight" long before there were birds and some 325 million years before man copied the design, music was invented for mating rituals long before man set foot on earth, dance was invented by many animals long before man walked the earth, art was created by many species long before man painted primitive figures on the walls of caves, etc. etc.

"Natura Artis Magistra", nature is the teacher of art (and science)

Interestingly, you are demonstrating the scriptural allegory of man's departure from the creative artistry of the natural world and creating this:

vs

Thinking logically as well, I'm sure ... For the time. Moot isn't even on the radar. I'm suggesting the reason for belief systems are real, valid, logical, and needed - at least at one time if not still. I fail to understand your line of reasoning - to suggest anything factual makes religion moot. It makes no sense - misunderstood maybe but not moot.

You misunderstand, evidence shows man is moot to the rest of earth's biome.

Perhaps you are right, mankind is not moot. It certainly is destructive of things in nature that are also not moot, but are utterly ignored by man. Well, some humans do appreciate nature, but they are Nature worshippers.

and considered apostate by religious people and subject to persecution.

nature worship

https://www.britannica.com/topic/nature-worship/Elements-and-forces-of-nature

 

[Michael 345]

Why this law or that principle?

No definitive answer possible in the sense of settling WHY

It is what it is and it appears to me that the law / principle came into being at same moment the situation to which it pertains appeared and have been inseparable ever since
The inability for human to explain requires the magical god to be invented

My outlook follows along the lines of if we can't explain don't bother trying

The why questions matter ... Particularly when contemplating religious belief, given the way religion has come to be viewed by those who champion critical thinking and logic.

WHAT ?
Area you under the impression god did it falls under the banner of critical thinking and logic and that religion has come to be viewed by those who champion critical thinking and logic as practitioners ?????


Sorry you have totally totally lost me

 

[exchemist]

You didn't answer my question...still. Why would any of this make religion moot? It's a simple question. Why would you think timelines and how the earth was formed a reason to deem religion moot or insignificant?

Will you explain your last paragraph? I have no idea what you're referring to.

I agree that this poster's responses seem to betray either ignorance or prejudice about the nature of religion. But you won't get much sense out of him, just a lot of links that he's that he's looked up on the internet, that are of tangential relevance at best.

 

[wegs]

You didn't answer my question...still. Why would any of this make religion moot? It's a simple question. Why would you think timelines and how the earth was formed a reason to deem religion moot or insignificant?

Will you explain your last paragraph? I have no idea what you're referring to.

I think people get bogged down with organized religion, which does have a lot of complexities and legalism associated with it. So, before we can have a healthy discussion about religion, we should know that everyone carries in their own perceptions of it.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

No definitive answer possible in the sense of settling WHY

It is what it is and it appears to me that the law / principle came into being at same moment the situation to which it pertains appeared and have been inseparable ever since
The inability for human to explain requires the magical god to be invented

My outlook follows along the lines of if we can't explain don't bother trying


WHAT ?
Area you under the impression god did it falls under the banner of critical thinking and logic and that religion has come to be viewed by those who champion critical thinking and logic as practitioners ?????


Sorry you have totally totally lost me

Asking why questions, perhaps as a sociology type study in terms of timelines and culture might help the student better understand the precepts and why they were developed by those cultures and according to those timelines or eras in human history. God did it has never been good enough for any real student of theology. As for your line of reasoning:


If we took your approach

"if we can't explain it, don't bother trying"

and refused the adventure of discovery and scientific method, we may as well lay in bed all day and chew our bubble gum for entertainment.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

I think people get bogged down with organized religion, which does have a lot of complexities and legalism associated with it. So, before we can have a healthy discussion about religion, we should know that everyone carries in their own perceptions of it.

I'm sure that's the case. I remember sitting through bible study meetings as a young boy and thinking "I hate this I hate this I hate this" the duration of. Then I remember growing fond of the application of some of the precepts by honorable people, which is when I myself took an interest in the study. I was 19 years old then. At 52 and 32 years of detective type work, I feel no less adventurous than when I first found interest in theology. Indiana Jones or Lora Croft complex I may have, but theology still intrigues me to this day. Despite some viewing religion to be moot in this day and age, I see it as part of the human root system of this tree of life we all belong to. It's important. That's what I'm suggesting.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Humans are no more relevant to the universe than ants.
Yes, and that question was based on the survival instinct in living organisms of "fight or flight" in the face of an "unseen potential threat"
Mostly borrowed from the behaviors of the organisms that came before us.
Lest you have forgotten, the insect invented "flight" long before there were birds and some 325 million years before man copied the design, music was invented for mating rituals long before man set foot on earth, dance was invented by many animals long before man walked the earth, art was created by many species long before man painted primitive figures on the walls of caves, etc. etc.

"Natura Artis Magistra", nature is the teacher of art (and science)

Interestingly, you are demonstrating the scriptural allegory of man's departure from the creative artistry of the natural world and creating this:

vs

You misunderstand, evidence shows man is moot to the rest of earth's biome.

Perhaps you are right, mankind is not moot. It certainly is destructive of things in nature that are also not moot, but are utterly ignored by man. Well, some humans do appreciate nature, but they are Nature worshippers.

and considered apostate by religious people and subject to persecution.

nature worship

https://www.britannica.com/topic/nature-worship/Elements-and-forces-of-nature

Life has always been our teacher. Nature has a way of teaching, eh? Ok, so you seem to blame man for all the Earth's maladies. Well, it's not just man that causes turbulence in the cycles. New species not indigenous to certain areas have a similar affect. Swine in North America, pythons in the Everglades, etc. The point is life changes and these changes motivate purpose, which often enough cators to survival needs and sometimes rescue missions. These include species other than humans.

I've grown accustomed to being human. We have certain obligations as intelligent beings with ability to both be beneficial to our planet and its occupants or detrimental. It's a choice, and more often than not, we are prone to making the erroneous choices due to erroneous lines of reasoning and/or sense of duty.

Religion, has been no less less humanistic in approach than humanist, or naturalist for that matter. I honor nature. Honor is the definition of worship. It comes down to respect I think- the namaste truth in everything, including dinner.

 

[ThazzarBaal]

Pretty poetry, but not science.

Poetry to be certain - the rest is debatable, depending on which you deemed to be - pretty - poetry - absent of science.

 

[Write4U]

New species not indigenous to certain areas have a similar affect. Swine in North America, pythons in the Everglades, etc. The point is life changes and these changes motivate purpose, which often enough cators to survival needs and sometimes rescue missions. These include species other than humans.

And they were all introduced by humans! Look at the aquatic devastation from Asian Carp.

Asian Carp

Four species of Asian carps, bighead carp, silver carp, black carp, and grass carp, are threats to Great Lakes fisheries. Recent peer-reviewed risk assessments for bighead carp and silver carp, and grass carp indicate that the Great Lakes are at substantial risk from these three species. The primary threat from Asian carps is competition with other fish for food resources, and the likely ability of these invaders to outcompete native desirable fishes. The risk from black carp has yet to be evaluated. As with other invaders, the Great Lakes Fishery Commission believes that preventing the introduction and establishment of Asian carps is the only effective approach to sustaining the valuable Great Lakes fishery.

http://www.glfc.org/asian-carp.php#

Or the rabbits in Australia.

How European Rabbits Took over Australia

European rabbits were brought over to Australia in the 1800s, and they have caused great environmental damage since then. Experts have even stated European rabbits' introduction to Australia was one of the fastest spreading instances of an invasive mammal.

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/how-european-rabbits-took-over-australia

Honor is the definition of worship. It comes down to respect I think- the namaste truth in everything, including dinner.

The only religion that honors nature is Taoism and those people were hunted down and enslaved.

During the Cultural Revolution from 1966 to 1976, many Taoist temples and sites were destroyed or badly damaged, Taoist clergy were forced to disrobe and were sent to labor camps. Persecution of Taoists in China eventually stopped in 1979, and many Taoists began reviving their traditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taoism#

The point is that Science (the study of natural phenomena) is the only dicipline that can teach "respect" and 'care" for the natural balance.

We hear lofty declarations that the Universe is fine-tuned for life at the same time we wantonly pollute the finely tuned ecosystem of the Earth.

Man is a curious creature, but certainly not fine-tuned to life on earth, in spite of its active imagination conjuring supernatural creative agency.

There is no "irreducible complexity". It's not logical.