It only matters if someone is religious or going to have a 'religious' ceremony, because they would be contradicting their own beliefs or projected beliefs. Otherwise, it's fine. And I really don't think the government should be involved whatsoever.
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Should polygamy be legal?
- Thread starter Pete
- Start date
It only matters if someone is religious or going to have a 'religious' ceremony, because they would be contradicting their own beliefs or projected beliefs. Otherwise, it's fine. And I really don't think the government should be involved whatsoever.
Originally posted by okinrus
The wives of Solomon turned him away from God. Also I don't think he was married to them all. I think many of them were just female servents but the bible specifically says concubines. In other cases, such as Abraham and Jacob, the bible shows marital disputes and Jelousy.
Alright, this is what I was waiting for. I did think that I asked for 'good' men that had more than one wife, not men who were corrupted and later became good men. Thank you okinrus...
Yes.
Oh please. Like your going to pay for all those children on wellfare. If you could prove that making polygamy legal would cause one suicide would you take it?
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/mnt/html/women/archive/issues12.html
Not to mention that Utah also has some high suicide rates.
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/mnt/html/women/archive/issues12.html
Not to mention that Utah also has some high suicide rates.
Are you suggesting that legalizing polygamy would further marginalise women (more so than monogamy)?
That could be a valid point, but I don't think that it's supportable by pointing to highly anti-female cultures, where polygyny is a product of the culture.
What do you mean about children on welfare?
That could be a valid point, but I don't think that it's supportable by pointing to highly anti-female cultures, where polygyny is a product of the culture.
What do you mean about children on welfare?
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy69.html
Polygamy is absolutly devastating. For most woman, having their partner go into another woman before there very eyes is adultry. Even if they somehow convince their concience their subconcience will betray them leading to a life of depression. Also usually this relationships start by man A marying wife B. Then after some time, man A decides to mary woman C. Wife B doesn't really want to but is basically forced into it.
Polygamy is absolutly devastating. For most woman, having their partner go into another woman before there very eyes is adultry. Even if they somehow convince their concience their subconcience will betray them leading to a life of depression. Also usually this relationships start by man A marying wife B. Then after some time, man A decides to mary woman C. Wife B doesn't really want to but is basically forced into it.
The Utah case documents illegal polygyny in strictly religious patriarchal subsocieties. I don't consider the consequences generalisable to legal mainstream society.
You're concentrating on a male-dominated model of polygamy.
Why? It doesn't have to be that way.
You're concentrating on a male-dominated model of polygamy.
Why? It doesn't have to be that way.
Originally posted by DarkEyedBeauty
Maybe you should read the thread before zipping in and assuming you've said anything of importance.
I have been saying now that polygamy is not condoned by the church. And it is not.
"Not condoned by the church" = "church bleats insignificantly about some issue, failing to sound authoritative and getting itself on the bad side of the news, like the pedophile era"
Like I said before, this only matters if you're religious, which I am not.
The more the marrier.
"Pete is talking about POLYGAMY. He clearly stated two men and two women. The bible does not condone that."
polygamy is quite simply multiple spouses which is either polyandry and polygyny. nowhere does it say that polygamy is two men and two women, it is nonspecific of sex or number.
as i stated before, almost all the major characters in the bible had many spouses, including the "good guys". god's favored kings all had hoards of them.
solomon was married to 700 of the women in his household (slightly over 1000). he had extensive foreign relations and it was custom for kings to give one of their daughters in marriage to another king to seal the deal, thus he collected lots of foreign (pagan) wives, who god feared would turn solomon away from him.
jacob had 2 wives (rachel and leah) and 2 concubines (bilhah and zilpah). his sons from these women became the 12 nations of israel and were rewarded richly by god (all of which also had multiple wives).
deu. 22.15 "If a man with two wives loves one and dislikes the other;..." this goes on to say that he owes property inheritance to the first son of the disliked wife even if he doesn't like her.
Samson's wife was married to the man who had been best man at their wedding. they were never divorced even though she married someone else. the end of the chapter says that he judged israel for 20 years. it doesn't come until later on that he disobeys god (in some other way) and is killed.
Saul gives David his daughter Michal in marriage. david later on marries abigail and ahinoam. Michal was given away without divorce to marry another man. after he becomes king, he also marries bathsheba. david was god's favorite king and is still held in high regard. it is played up that jesus is a decendant of david.
i'm sick of reading scrupture so i'm going to stop but you get the idea
polygamy is quite simply multiple spouses which is either polyandry and polygyny. nowhere does it say that polygamy is two men and two women, it is nonspecific of sex or number.
as i stated before, almost all the major characters in the bible had many spouses, including the "good guys". god's favored kings all had hoards of them.
solomon was married to 700 of the women in his household (slightly over 1000). he had extensive foreign relations and it was custom for kings to give one of their daughters in marriage to another king to seal the deal, thus he collected lots of foreign (pagan) wives, who god feared would turn solomon away from him.
jacob had 2 wives (rachel and leah) and 2 concubines (bilhah and zilpah). his sons from these women became the 12 nations of israel and were rewarded richly by god (all of which also had multiple wives).
deu. 22.15 "If a man with two wives loves one and dislikes the other;..." this goes on to say that he owes property inheritance to the first son of the disliked wife even if he doesn't like her.
Samson's wife was married to the man who had been best man at their wedding. they were never divorced even though she married someone else. the end of the chapter says that he judged israel for 20 years. it doesn't come until later on that he disobeys god (in some other way) and is killed.
Saul gives David his daughter Michal in marriage. david later on marries abigail and ahinoam. Michal was given away without divorce to marry another man. after he becomes king, he also marries bathsheba. david was god's favorite king and is still held in high regard. it is played up that jesus is a decendant of david.
i'm sick of reading scrupture so i'm going to stop but you get the idea
I find the Bible's treatment of women abhorrent. Typical example:
Genesis 19:4-8
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
Genesis 19:4-8
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."
Originally posted by SwedishFish
polygamy is quite simply multiple spouses which is either polyandry and polygyny. nowhere does it say that polygamy is two men and two women, it is nonspecific of sex or number.
Swedish, I am going to die laughing at you. I AM NOT saying that it is specifically 2 and 2. Hahah! I am saying....2+2=4. Ok...so 1 person has 3 spouses. Alright? You still follow? Therefore, 3=multiple! It's that simple! Geez. One person married to 3 others is polygamy, A FORM OF IT.
Wow...didn't think I would have to spell it out.
Should polygamy be legal?
Sounds like a recipe for tax evasion/cheating on welfare. Just abolish the institution of marriage.
Swedish, I am going to die laughing at you. I AM NOT saying that it is specifically 2 and 2. Hahah! I am saying....2+2=4. Ok...so 1 person has 3 spouses. Alright? You still follow? Therefore, 3=multiple! It's that simple! Geez. One person married to 3 others is polygamy, A FORM OF IT.
*Shakes head*
Were you born this stupid or did it take effort to achieve?
Yes, illegal polygamy seems to be a hotbed of tax and welfare cheating, because the system doesn't have appropriate mechanisms to handle it, and because polygamous marriages are (naturally) not officially recorded.
If polygamy were legalised, there would need to be significant changes to the tax and welfare systems. I suggest that legal polygamous marriages would be less prone to cheating because the marriages would be duly recorded. Illegal relationship would still be a problem (as they are now).
Abolishing the institution would make the problem worse, as far as tax and welfare cheating goes.
If polygamy were legalised, there would need to be significant changes to the tax and welfare systems. I suggest that legal polygamous marriages would be less prone to cheating because the marriages would be duly recorded. Illegal relationship would still be a problem (as they are now).
Abolishing the institution would make the problem worse, as far as tax and welfare cheating goes.
You left out one critical step. You never proved that the bible, God or anyone else endorsed Lot's behavior. In fact, the angels pull him back. As is written, "and my angels will save you from dash your feet".I find the Bible's treatment of women abhorrent. Typical example:
It is written in Deuteronomy that any future King of Israel should not take many wives because they will turn him away from God.solomon was married to 700 of the women in his household (slightly over 1000). he had extensive foreign relations and it was custom for kings to give one of their daughters in marriage to another king to seal the deal, thus he collected lots of foreign (pagan) wives, who god feared would turn solomon away from him.
Not everything allowed in the Old Testament is completely rightous. While God may have allowed certain men to take more than one wive, we are under a new convenant. When asked why God allowed divorse at all, Jesus responded that the Law was made because of the hardness of their hearts. Logically if you divorse your wife and marry another that's considered adultry in the new testament. So if you marry another while still married then that's certainly adultry.
Lot is considered to be a righteous man (he was saved from Sodom after all). The angels pulled him back to save him, not to prevent him sacrificing his daughters. His actions were not directly condemned are therefore implicitly accepted.
And this is only one example. The Bible (the OT in particular but not exclusively) is Not A Very Nice Book as far as its attitude to women is concerned.
I agree with you that a marriage composed of one man and many women is not a good thing, particularly if that style of marriage is cuturally embedded.
Notice also that the entire discussion on adultery and divorce in Matthew 5 is completely centred on the male viewpoint. Women don't get a look-in. There also appear to be discrepancies between Matthew 5, Matthew 19, and Mark 10.
Matthew 5: "anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."
Notice the "except for unfaithfulness" clause, and that it's the woman who is the sinner.
Matthew 19: "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Now both the man and woman are sinners. The unfaithfulness clause remains.
Mark 10:"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."
And now the unfaithfulness clause disappears. Curious!
And this is only one example. The Bible (the OT in particular but not exclusively) is Not A Very Nice Book as far as its attitude to women is concerned.
I agree with you that a marriage composed of one man and many women is not a good thing, particularly if that style of marriage is cuturally embedded.
It doesn't follow. Jesus was speaking in the context of current Jewish culture, which folowed the monogamy model. He explicitly stated that divorce alone is bad, not remarriage alone. Extending this to a polygamy model, divorce is still wrong....logically if you divorse your wife and marry another that's considered adultry in the new testament. So if you marry another while still married then that's certainly adultry.
Notice also that the entire discussion on adultery and divorce in Matthew 5 is completely centred on the male viewpoint. Women don't get a look-in. There also appear to be discrepancies between Matthew 5, Matthew 19, and Mark 10.
Matthew 5: "anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."
Notice the "except for unfaithfulness" clause, and that it's the woman who is the sinner.
Matthew 19: "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
Now both the man and woman are sinners. The unfaithfulness clause remains.
Mark 10:"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."
And now the unfaithfulness clause disappears. Curious!