Should parents be allowed to raise their children religious or atheist?

[Simon Anders]

Children as pete said are atheist by default

People keep saying this and it is gathering the momentum of a myth. I was at minimum an animist with some pantheist tendencies. And my parents were not these things. I experienced a world that was vastly more alive and intelligent and communicative than it seems most adults, theist or atheist do. I have noticed other children also have these tendencies, regardless of what their parent's beliefs are.

 

[spidergoat]

Yeah, and perhaps living as directed in The Ten Commandmants. Yeah, that would be pretty damned tragic, wouldn't it? Shouldn't teach little kids shit like that, that's for sure. Teach the little bastards to grab whatever they can out life, be as greedy as possible.

Baron Max

Who can make any sense of that? Don't make any graven images? WTF? No one follows that anyway. Besides, good moral lessons do not require fear of hell.

 

[CutsieMarie89]

I think it's fine to raise your children as "whatever you believe", but as they grow older and if they begin to dissent then you should let them follow their own path. I was raised Catholic as a young teen discovered I didn't really believe in it's teachings and began seeking alternatives. My parents never forced me back afterwords. The only time I went back to the Catholic church was for my brother's communion and my grandfather's funeral, but that was more about showing support and being there than it was about religion.

 

[Simon Anders]

My parents pretty much got out of my way as far as these things. Their only meddling was to make sure I got a wide range of experiences - via reading, visting religious institutions, in contacts with other people. Their idea was that if offered a range of choices, I would find what I felt best suited me. I would call my father an atheist - and he would agree - and my mother an agnostic - though she has flurries of belief in certain things others would call supernatural. neither of them has much patience for organized religions as far as they might impact on them.

So they stressed freedom in relation to them. I was free to choose. Certainly they did not hold back their opinions, but they did not see it as their jobs to argue me out of beliefs - unless they were cruel somehow. Fortunately this last did not come up.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

In response to Pete, I mean in a religious household, or in an atheist household. Religious or atheist; raising them to be religious or atheist. Sorry for the confusion, this shit was probably posted really late in the morning.

Edit: By "rasing them religious or atheist" I mean raising them that the beliefs are true. Not insisting the beliefs upon the child, but telling the child that the beliefs are true. No church going included in this "raising" business, that's too much Bob.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

All indoctrination?

Ooh, new respect for Pete. Good post.

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

When religious training(upbringing) is compared to it, then corporal punishment is the lesser of two evils.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

OP is an idiot. let me see, the choices are religious or atheist. Is there any other kind???

Yes, parents are allowed to raise their children religious or atheist.

Sure there are. And, as you noted, the choices are religious or atheist. Ah, how brilliant of you.

A law expert, I see. You're aware of the laws regarding a parent's right to raise their children with whatever nationally recognized religion they want? And more?? Call James over! This thread has been finished! /sigh

Edit: I've been reading too much Romeo and Juliet. I just pulled a Mercrutio on your Tybalt. Damn.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

Yeah, and perhaps living as directed in The Ten Commandmants. Yeah, that would be pretty damned tragic, wouldn't it? Shouldn't teach little kids shit like that, that's for sure. Teach the little bastards to grab whatever they can out life, be as greedy as possible.

Baron Max

Anne Frank much? Lulz. Ten Commandments wont do shit for this world.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

Of course they should be allowed. The day someone comes to my door and tells me I have to raise my child as one thing or another, I'm blowing their fucking head off and running to Canada.

It's not saying what you have to raise your child as, it's saying what you can't raise your child as.

 

[mis-t-highs]

People keep saying this and it is gathering the momentum of a myth.

Could you explain how a newborn, without any way of understanding it's environment, (Remember that all babies are born Tabula Rasa ( a blank sheet )) could have any belief in anything, Therefore they are atheist by default, without belief in gods.
No myth, "Fact"

I was at minimum an animist with some pantheist tendencies. I have noticed other children also have these tendencies, regardless of what their parent's beliefs are.

Once a baby becomes a small child (around the age of 18mth-2yrs, (the time when it starts to realise it's own mirror image)), it begins to understand more about it's environment, thus gains the knowledge, to design it's own belief system.

But babies by default are atheist.

 

[Simon Anders]

Could you explain how a newborn, without any way of understanding it's environment, (Remember that all babies are born Tabula Rasa ( a blank sheet )) could have any belief in anything, Therefore they are atheist by default, without belief in gods.

Right off the bat the whole tabula rasa idea, which is basically that we are built up just via nurture, does not have a lot of scientific backing. At the very least pretty much any neuroscientist is going to argue we are a blend of nature/nurture, with the fad these days of stressing the former.

No myth, "Fact"Once a baby becomes a small child (around the age of 18mth-2yrs, (the time when it starts to realise it's own mirror image)), it begins to understand more about it's environment, thus gains the knowledge, to design it's own belief system.

I can't see the relevence of this. You are also talking about a stage that is not dependent on nurture - unless we are talking about severe abuse - and does not really fit with tabula rasa theories.

As far as designing belief systems. I am not saying I designed a belief system and I certainly would not have identified myself as pantheist. I, like a good number of other children I have known, did think many things were alive, worth talking to, etc., that modern science does not consider alive or sentient. Nobody taught me this.

But babies by default are atheist.

Well, since they have no language it is hard to say they have any beliefs. You could say they are total skeptics by this line of reasoning, since they do not believe anything. I don't think the term is anything but misleading with a baby.

 

[Balerion]

Children are obviously born without any religion. But I think it's coming to light that many of our behavioral differences come from differences in the hard-wiring of the brain, which could very well mean that nobody is born as a "blank sheet", but rather as a blank sheet with certain colored crayons right next to it...if you follow.

 

[mikenostic]

I think parents should have the freedom to determine how they want to raise their children.

I agree to an extent. What parents should not be doing is forcing their religion upon their children.
When I lived with my bible thumping aunt Dora, she made me and her son Anthony go to church with her Sunday, Sunday night, Wednesday night and the whole fuckin week during revivals. That is a huge part of the reason I am now agnostic.
Like one poster mentioned, show them what is dangerous and what is not; let them find out things, and make decisions for themselves.
When parents realize their children are totally separate human beings that have their own dreams and desires that may not necessarily be the same as their parents, we will start to see more well rounded children.

 

[visceral_instinct]

Yeah, and perhaps living as directed in The Ten Commandmants. Yeah, that would be pretty damned tragic, wouldn't it? Shouldn't teach little kids shit like that, that's for sure. Teach the little bastards to grab whatever they can out life, be as greedy as possible.

Baron Max

You stupid dick. Where the hell did you get the idea that you can't have morality without religion?

Yes - kids need social rules if they are to grow up into civilized human beings. What they don't need is superstition, fear and a warped sense of logic and what is real.

I don't think people should teach their kids that a certain religion is right. There's nothing wrong with teaching them that different religions EXIST, but telling your kid 'god exists, this is a sin, blah blah blah' does more harm than good.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

Could you explain how a newborn, without any way of understanding it's environment, (Remember that all babies are born Tabula Rasa ( a blank sheet )) could have any belief in anything, Therefore they are atheist by default, without belief in gods.
No myth, "Fact"Once a baby becomes a small child (around the age of 18mth-2yrs, (the time when it starts to realise it's own mirror image)), it begins to understand more about it's environment, thus gains the knowledge, to design it's own belief system.

But babies by default are atheist.

I disagree. Well, with what you implied. That people "corrupt" babies and so they "convert" to theism. I believe that they aren't born anything, atheist or theist, only agnostic. There weren't any theists when we first evolved, I guess, but the idea was manufactured to explain everything that goes on. It was pretty scientific way back in the day. I think we are born blank, and go to the simplest and easiest to grasp idea, that one being made everything, and then we slowly gravitate to science.

 

[Betrayer0fHope]

You stupid dick. Where the hell did you get the idea that you can't have morality without religion?

Yes - kids need social rules if they are to grow up into civilized human beings. What they don't need is superstition, fear and a warped sense of logic and what is real.

I don't think people should teach their kids that a certain religion is right. There's nothing wrong with teaching them that different religions EXIST, but telling your kid 'god exists, this is a sin, blah blah blah' does more harm than good.

He never said that. He basically said, not everyone follows the law. There isn't enough punishment. Everyone follows the Bible(and the Ten Commandments). There is plenty of punishment. Of course, this line of reasoning is still wrong, but never did he say nor imply what you accused him of.

 

[swivel]

They have to do one or the other, don't they?

 

[S.A.M.]

I agree to an extent. What parents should not be doing is forcing their religion upon their children.
When I lived with my bible thumping aunt Dora, she made me and her son Anthony go to church with her Sunday, Sunday night, Wednesday night and the whole fuckin week during revivals. That is a huge part of the reason I am now agnostic.

Then she helped you decide, did she not?

I bet atheist parents go out of their way to explain mythology to their kids as well.

 

[Pete]

Children as pete said are atheist by default...

Well, that's not actually what I said. But it's off topic, and doesn't matter anyway. I was going to bite at tabula rasa as well, but I see that Simon has already addressed it.

I bet atheist parents go out of their way to explain mythology to their kids as well.

Well, my oldest son is only seven, but I don't think I do that. He believes in Santa and the tooth fairy. He's getting his share of basic christian background at school. He enjoys Harry Potter books and movies. I don't feel any need to tell him what's myth and what's not... at this stage, I think it's OK for him to believe what he wants to.

As his reasoning capacity grows, I'll help him learn ways to sort the wheat from the chaff.