sexual competition

whitewolf said:
I grow smarter lately, and guys love that. I guess it's an age thing.

Enjoy it while you can. If you're like me, you'll go from talking Uncertainty Principle to 'Whuh? What's a particle?". :bugeye: Come to think of it, I think Heisenberg was really talking about the synapses in my very own brain when we was talking about uncertainty of path... Where will a thought go? Poof! <i>What</i> thought?

Any guy who likes me must deficient, now that I think about it. And so, I come full circle in this thread. <i>I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.</i>
 
Yeah, that's where I am at this point. A guy who likes me must have a lot of things wrong with him :D

But, coming back to that damn book: I wouldn't try so hard to get a guy. Each time you try really hard to change yourself for someone, you stop liking that someone very soon and go back to your usual self. Change your self for yourself only. And then, whoever likes you as you are, grab that person.
 
Perhaps I don't see weakness in childbearing. Much sacrifice and pain, but there's great honor in making that sacrifice, in taking that pain in order for one's race to live on.
Dependance? Yes, but not on the man. Submission? On the contrary, bearing a child is a great show of strength.

When a woman has a child, she has to depend on something outside of herself. A primitive(and to some extent, modern) woman cannot handle raising children alone. She is put into a weak position.
 
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Actually, there are many single female parents. Which means that, precisely in the modern world, it is possible. It's just hard and undesirable, but it can and has been done many times all around the world.
Oh, besides, when a man is kicked in the nuts, he's quite helpless. Does that mean he's a weakling, inferior, or anything else of the sort?
 
I had a girlfriend, a big twit, she was sooo stupid. I didn't like her. When I called to dump her she was like, "Is it because I'm dumb?" I was like, "No, it's not because you're stupid." Which was a big mistake because in that simple statement I just admitted I thought she was a dummy, but had a better reason for dumpimg her. She cried and started adimitting all of her insecurities which was pretty pathetic because at that point I pretty much shed all of my responsibilities as an emotional crutch. I said she would find someone better, although I was the best boyfriend she ever had.
 
Actually, there are many single female parents. Which means that, precisely in the modern world, it is possible.
Aren't the rising criminal rates blamed on single parents?
 
Take criminal psych class, you'll see. The rising criminal rates can be blamed on many different things, down to ketchup. What is known for sure is that their brains differ from those of non-criminal people (look it up to see in what way). Do you know any peers who were raised by a single parent? Are those peers criminals? I know one, he's one of most decent men nature came up with. And please tell how being raised by a single parent raises the possibility of that individual becoming a criminal.
 
I know several young men who are raised by single parents. They are into drugs, do poorly in school, steal, and have been arrested.

There was a study where single welfare mothers (n=200, I think) were given jobs, and their children's performance in school monitored.

It was first believed that a working mother would a be a good, positive role-model for the kids.

However, in the group of kids who's mothers went back to work, the grades of the children actually dropped a little bit.

These were highschool kids, by the way, not little ones. It's thought that a single parent puts a lot of stress on the kid, since he has half the parental resources to help him compared to two-parent homes.
 
I know several young men who are raised by single parents. They are into drugs, do poorly in school, steal, and have been arrested
Ditto, I know many.
Actually there's a clear line between the numerous people I know, on one side there are the criminals who were raised by single parents and on the other the non criminals who were raised by 2 parents. Without exceptions.
Then there's the children of divorces who dabble in being badasses but usually come ok in the end.
The correlation is quite astonishing now I think about it.
 
Xev said:
How is sex a zero sum game?

This reminds me of when there are two kids that are walking somewhere really close by and one of them declares that they're racing and then runs off to win. The other kids is like "shut up, we're not racing" and just walks to the place. However, the kid that ran off is jumping around and shouting "I won, I won" with a big smile on their face. The kid that just walked to the place knows its bullshit, but he/she still can't help but get mad about it.

Sometimes guys are like that when they sleep with a girl. Even though the girl wasn't trying to avoid sleeping with them, they think they've won some bullshit race.

The only way I can see sex as having a loser is if one of the two is:

1. Raped
2. Taken advantage of while drunk
3. Has sex only because of lies (I love you) and manipulation (Don't you love me?)

And that even depends on the person. If you don't care if the person having sex with you is lying and think they're stupid for thinking that they have to lie in the first place, then that doesn't count.

Xev said:
if I take pleasure from a man ought I see myself as the loser?

Xex said:
he takes pleasure from me, so how could I be considered the winner?

You both take pleasure from each other. Unless your goal was for him not to feel pleasure then I don't see how him feeling pleasure makes you the loser.

Xex said:
All the advice, all my own strategizing, has been a way of trying to make me feel that I've defeated him by bedding him.

You shouldn't look at sex as competition between you and the person you're having sex with. You're definitely not ever going to feel like you have won, unless of course your fucking the guy over, like if you're a gold digger or something like the girls in the movie Heartbreakers.

Men typically always give each other at least a little praise when they get a girl in bed. I've seen girls do the same, which is funny, because it doesn't make sense unless they got with a man that was a lot more attractive than them.

It makes sense with men not because they won some game though, it's because girls typically don't have to try while men typically do have to try. So this praise doesn't necessarily mean they have somehow got the better hand over a women, but rather that they got chosen by that women. That is to say, if that man wasn't so attractive or smart or funny or smooth, then the girl in question wouldn't have slept with him.

However, like the little kid who thinks he's winning a race, it does at times lean towards that type of praise. And even if the girl in question is considered to be a slut, guys will still sometimes give praise. It doesn't make any sense, I know. It's just in the nature of men to praise each other, root for each other, and pump each other up. Which is probably because of the role they've played in nature for so long.
 
Xev

"HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU, by Greg Behrendt and Liz Tuccillo. (Simon Spotlight Entertainment, $19.95.) How a woman can tell if a relationship is going nowhere."
Never heard of it.

Apparently every estrogen-crazed freak I know has read it.
Ah that's why. Hmm... maybe I should start taking estrogen injections to form an interest in such books.

It's been on the NYT bestseller list six weeks in a row.
Shame they only judge on quantity and not quality.

But really there's a huge market for this tripe. Remember the Rules? Whatever came after the Rules? What is it in American culture that makes us so hungry for books which purport to train us in the fine art of being disingenous shits to people we're attracted to?
There is a huge market for this crap and it's because it seems that women just want to know. Or maybe they just need to know. I just like how there are always conflicting "facts" on how to tell or how one should know. I'm surprised women haven't started ripping their hair out in confusion, and no I don't just mean waxing one's bikini line. Women have this thing about needing to be led on what's the right path. By reading these crappy books, women are hoping to be just like the other women they think are getting all the men. They want to think just like the purdy girls who attract all the guys. In the end, women are going to end up like drones on the hunt for man-meat.

Has sex become so utterly mundane that we require a whole set of techniques to liven it up by putting it out of proportion? For that matter, is disingenuity and paranoia healthy when dealing with the opposite sex?
Have you seen the amount of books out there claiming to liven up people's sex lives? And no, it's not healthy at all. It's bad enough that women are always distrusting of their boyfriends/husbands/friends. The question always seems to be there.. 'does he really love me?'.. 'he fell asleep last night, does that mean he doesn't want me anymore'... and these books only feed the paranoia.

"So-and-so really likes you, but you need to make yourself less available"
I have never understood that line of thought. If so and so likes you and you like them, why make yourself less available? It's primary school mentality where at dances all the girls stood on one side of the dancefloor and the boys on the other, both sides whispering, pointing and giggling. It's total bullshit. If you like the guy and he likes you, then go for it. If you make yourself unavailable, you miss out.

I don't think about 'relationships'. I prefer to live and let live - see what happens. I think the whole concept of a 'relationship' is a scam to make stupid women buy books like "He's not into you"
Good attitude and you're very correct.

To have sex with a person you care for is easy. But to reach out and to comprehend the flesh of a wholly unknown person? That must take the bravery and patience of a saint.
I wouldn't say saint. But you're right... especially when you wake up the next morning and think eeek.. what in the f*ck was I thinking.. as you try and find a way out of the house before he/it wakes up. Word to the wise, never try the window if the door is deadlocked and there's no key in sight... the noise one makes as one tries to crawl out of the window does wake the big mistake sleeping in the bed, resulting in a 'where are you going baby'.. grits teeth

But smartness - being well read, writing decently, cleverness - none of that really helps with men.
But it helps you to be well read, intelligent and have the ability to string 20 words into a sentence. If a guy can't admire that in a woman, then to hell with them. Why would anyone want to have anything to do with a guy who can't respect a woman's intelligence?

I don't consider myself that intelligent, but great intelligence is quite a handicap when it comes to social ability.
Intelligence should never be a handicap. I think the handicapped one's is society itself.

My advice, burn the book(s) and your friends who advise you to read the books or quote from the books. Each person is different and the generic books cannot apply or cater to each individual. If you like the guy and he likes you, knock yourself out. If you like him and he doesn't like you, move on. If he likes you and you don't feel the same about him, he has to move on. Sitting there and trying to figure out whether he likes you or not or getting hints from books about whether he's 'into you' or not is the same as plucking the petals off a daisy and chanting 'he loves me.. he loves me not'.

c20H25N3o

We see how totally precious you are and we become like virgins before you.
So you fumble around on the bed trying to find where to put it on the wedding night? Give me a break.

We do not even know if we are allowed to touch you and indeed in the spirit of fornication we may not because it would be to sin against you and Our Father.
'Spirit of fornication'? What the?!?

The daughter of God should then submit to her husband without fear because she knows his will is good for her. This is the union that God intended for man and woman. This is why traditionally the husband to be askes the daughter's father for his daughter's hand in marraige. It is so that the man's heart is right with God before the union takes place. The girl's father will know whether the man is worthy of his daughter or not. His judgement is good for his daughter and if he approves of the humility the man has shown, he will hand over the daughter he has raised from birth.
Jesus Mary Joseph! A woman must submit to her husband? Could you be anymore of a throwback from the darkages? One would hope that the daughter gets a say before daddy hands her over to the pervert asking for permission to have sex with her.

Bad Christian

What about the fact that a woman is in a biologically more submissive, dependent position? She has to bear the child, biologically, and she is more insecure and vulnerable.
You're a guy who calls your better half 'baby' aren't you? Do you have any idea of the kind of pain a woman goes through to bear the child? You try passing an orange through your penis and then you'll see how the woman is not biologically more submissive or in a dependent position.

When a woman has a child, she has to depend on something outside of herself. A primitive(and to some extent, modern) woman cannot handle raising children alone. She is put into a weak position.
Ahhh another ape from the darkages. You have simply discounted the millions of single female parents out there in the world who successfully bring up their children on their own. Women can and do handle raising their children alone. She is hardly in a weak position when she does so. When a woman has a child on her own, she does depend on herself to do so.

Polrean
I had a girlfriend, a big twit, she was sooo stupid.
Like attracts like.
 
Bells said:
Like attracts like.

Hey I resent that, a lot of stupid girls have liked me.

Plus, that means that if a stupid girl likes your boyfriend, then you must be stupid too for liking him since he can't be smart if like attracts like, and a stupid girl likes him.
 
Well I wouldn't say it's a reflection of the other bf/gfs. Not all smart people are <i>always</i> attracted to smart people. For example, look at AHnold Shwartzenegger and Maria Shriver.

My ex-boyfriend, after we broke up, got me to help his new girlfriend with her resume. She had taken some Geriatric program at school. She asked me how to spell geriatric. That doesn't mean *I'm* stupid. :mad:
 
Xev:
But really there's a huge market for this tripe. Remember the Rules? Whatever came after the Rules? What is it in American culture that makes us so hungry for books which purport to train us in the fine art of being disingenous shits to people we're attracted to?
The same thing that has naked strippers quipping 'look but don't touch'.

She's got her ass in his face and her breast in his pockets and he's dying to lick her but no- he can't treat her like the piece of meat she is advertising as, 'cause she's valuable.
Not saying she isnt, but come the fuck on.
What is this ‘thing’? I don’t know other than that its made sexual games so bulky it actually makes acquiescense fucking boring- even repulsive to some.

We can call it something sinister, but mother teaching me that my flower was pwecious and that nobody should touch it unless he really really loved me and I chose him as my husband helped to cultivate my power hunger (ha) in the most benign way:
Self esteem and girl power.
Its now transcended into something complex that keeps me oh so lonely.

Look at me, I'm sitting here in a lab filled with pathetic old people and there are boys out there I'd love to bed and chain to my furnace.
But if they rolled over and gave themselves to me, it would kill all appetite.

Hypatia:
But that is a sidebar. Again, there is a distinction between what goes on in people's personal relationships and what goes on in the outside world. Behavior in one milieu does not necessarily (and should not, IMHO) translate to the other.
Then why do all these love songs all say the Same. Damn. Things?

Whitewolf:
This morning, on the train, a lady landed in front of me. She wasted no moment, immediately opening a sacred pouch and taking out various small items: a mirror, a pencil, a palette, a brush. She looked into the mirror and grimaced at herself: what if she squints so? and if she bites her lip so? and if she smiles like this and turns like that? The face must be fully covered without a milimeter of naked skin sticking out. What an ugly visage, I thought. After she finishes her morning subway routine, she will touch her face up many times through the day, triumphantly grimacing into the mirror. Then, in the evening, she will meet a pretty boy. She will thoroughly rub off her mask against him, incessantly looking into her face and grimacing: what if she opens her eyes so? bites her lower lip? sucks her upper lip? Too many women are like that. I wonder if she read of such behavior in a book. I'm reincarnation of Queen Victoria, the one who instilled the Victorian era. Sure, there are thinking women, but hte exceptions are quite few.
Shoot her.

On a side note- examine the next time a man says he finds intelligence sexy.
He left out the qualifier of “up to a point”.
People like intelligence but only up to the point where they begin getting confused between dialectics. Then it becomes apparent that what we all truly find attractive is the physical- a fat Nietzsche is hardly a turn on.

So expand on this tripe:

Well, but now I'm thinking you have to be burbling intelligence underneath, but not spewing the intelligence on the surface too much, 'cause they resent you for it in the end. They want you to be smart, but they are annoyed when you walk around being too openly smart. It's like they feel less manly if you can outwit them, so they start trying to undermine your wits, start engaging in circular nonsense to distract you from your cerebral foothold, because really they want you dangling off a cliff at the end of a rope they're holding for you.
Stupid exhibitionism has no gender.
 
You're a guy who calls your better half 'baby' aren't you? Do you have any idea of the kind of pain a woman goes through to bear the child? You try passing an orange through your penis and then you'll see how the woman is not biologically more submissive or in a dependent position.

I think, from an athropological point of view, the woman is put into a more vulnerable position. By bearing children she does a great service to her race and community, but she is still put into a vulnerable position. She is weakened while pregnant, weakened while bearing children, and weakened while feeding her child. The female gender has been in this weaker position for millenium.

Whether or not it can be changed is up for debate, as well as whether it should be changed. But women are not the same as men in dominance, and that has been culturally reinforced.

The thing I've noticed about 'assertive' or 'dominant' women is that they tend to take it over the top. They aren't natural and relaxed about it. Instead, they tend to be screeching, defensive feminist 'bitches'.
 
Xev said:
I'm a competitive woman by nature. I like being the first and the best, I like to win and I like to master whatever I decide to do. And yet I cannot apply that drive to my interactions with men, while most seem to think I ought to.
Hell, so-and-so is cool, I like him, sure I'm not going to be an obsessive stalker and call every day, but why should I act like I'm not interested in him when I am?
Why would I want to attract "psycho-boy who only wants what he can't have"? Or worse, a man who doesn't like me and just wants to bed me? I'd have to kill him or something, ha ha.
Being decently versed in the humanities, I know that the "war of the sexes" is an old theme which dates to at least the Middle Ages. Yet it seems so particular with me.

People get off on different things. I am like the psycho-boy who only wants what he can't have. From what I gather, some women like their men to be confident and dominate them like slaves. Some want the opposite. What ever gets you horny, I say.
 
I saw "He's just not that into you" on Oprah... while I was at the gym... but lets ponder that later...

This is just more proof that humans are ruled by their emotional irrationality...that they need a book to tell them what is so fucking obvious. okay, not everyone, but apparently many, many women. I know, I'm female, and I'm friends with many deluded girls... and I just think it's so very pathetic. (Sorry, meaning no offense) But, if the world works by natural selection - if such a "weakness" proves to be a disadvantage to survival, then bye bye.

As much as I don't want to advocate abuse, (I loathe those acts and the disgusting creatures that carry them out), if the more sexually agressive male can pass on his genes than the saint (which is obvious - just look at Oakland, CA. It's my city-next-door and things are not happy there...) then there will be more people like that in the world. They'll either learn by example of the males around them, or inherit the genes if they exist. And obviously, natural selection over the past hundred thousand years has produced a world where men are the more aggressive gender and rule over the women... in harems in certain places...

But anyway, if you can't find a way to deal with it, you're screwed. Nobody can help you but yourself.

Yeah and I'm not trying to be an uber-educated genius (that's laughable...) and I'm not going to do PIC here, so don't bother jumping down off your horses to tell me that.
 
What ever gets you horny, I say.

Hunting down people who write stupid responses to my threads and skinning them alive.
Now go away if you can't add anything marginally interesting.

And you people stop hinting at sadism unless you're going to actually bring up bloodshed - otherwise you're boring and I hate you.

Bad Christian:
I think, from an athropological point of view, the woman is put into a more vulnerable position.

Yes, but that does not necessarily equate to submission, eh? You're assuming that people are necessarily unpleasant brutes who take advantage of a vulnerable member of their group. In fact, I quite doubt it. The Aryan race is so beautiful in part because we are cooperative, because we do not attack upon the first sign of vulnerability. I think cooperation, yes, is overrated these days, yes, the sign of a weak age, but to go the other extreme? The most beautiful people in the world, Russians and Czecks, the Scandinavians and Celts, what have they in common? Tough, hardy races born of cold, harsh lands where they survived - flourished - because they were smart, brave, and cooperative.

Hell, same can be said of non-whites - the Siberians and the Pacific Islanders, okay well so the Pacific Islands aren't necessarily cold, harsh climates, but ah, still they did flourish not necessarily because they were exploitative and vicious but also because they could cooperate.

Oh...one more thing - Viking women sometimes rode into battle pregnent. Sigrid the Haughty travelled from Norway to Sweden in the fucking winter while visibly pregnent. Childbearing is a burden, but it is our over-reliance on doctors that makes it a positive disability.

gendanken:
Not saying she isnt, but come the fuck on.

Why aren't you saying she isn't?

We can call it something sinister, but mother teaching me that my flower was pwecious and that nobody should touch it unless he really really loved me and I chose him as my husband helped to cultivate my power hunger (ha) in the most benign way

Well, I daresay it's healthy. Kinda the reverse of penis-envy, you know?
Besides...pathetic people are fu-nny

Look at me, I'm sitting here in a lab filled with pathetic old people and there are boys out there I'd love to bed and chain to my furnace.

Am I a lazy bitch because I don't like the ones who make a fuss about putting out? It wouldn't kill my appetite - I'd probably drop dead of a MI if a boy were honest about sex but - I love 'easy' men.

Bells:
Ah that's why. Hmm... maybe I should start taking estrogen injections to form an interest in such books.

You know, according to my primary care physician I can't take certain forms of birth control because I produce more estrogen than normal?
Isn't that fu-nny?

I have never understood that line of thought. If so and so likes you and you like them, why make yourself less available?

That there is what I want to know.

I wouldn't say saint. But you're right... especially when you wake up the next morning and think eeek.. what in the f*ck was I thinking.. as you try and find a way out of the house before he/it wakes up. Word to the wise, never try the window if the door is deadlocked and there's no key in sight... the noise one makes as one tries to crawl out of the window does wake the big mistake sleeping in the bed, resulting in a 'where are you going baby'.. grits teeth

Exactly, see - people who have promiscuous sex are so much nicer than people who don't. If you've got that much affection for humanity in you - go anyone with the love to have casual sex and not be an asshole about it.

Intelligence should never be a handicap.

Oh yeah? Try answering honestly the question "what are you reading?" for the upteenth time, and then the follow-up "oh, what class is it for?"
It's a serious handicap when you're trying not to bludgeon someone.

My advice, burn the book(s) and your friends who advise you to read the books or quote from the books.

Yeah, but I'm not asking for advice on him. This is not a request for advice, more a - musing. I got him nailed (pun inadvertant). And they're not my friends, god forbid, they're more like assholes I know and am too closely associated with to kill without suspicion falling on me.

So much talk of killing. My pierogies are done, goodnight.
 
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