Sex offenders

[Blue_UK]

Mystech, Naturally we are refering to the more serious cases.

The words are not interchangeable, but I will concede my statement was a bit ambiguous. Castration may be enough motivation for a sex offender to keep commiting the crime although they may have no sexual desire.

Yes, you're right they're not interchangable. In the wishy-washy world of the mind most will agree that it's difficult to have firm definitions.




I would have thought, as WCF and Stryder apprently do, that testosterone is the key the problem in male cases.

However, it did occur to me (I've mentioned this before) that the pituitary in the brain is also responsible for tstn production? Am I right in this? I know for certain that tstn is present in the bodies of females.

 

[ElectricFetus]

aah I would have guessed the adrenal gland.

 

[Tiassa]

What about sex crimes that aren't sex crimes? In some cases, rape is merely the manifestation of a deeper problem; it isn't about sex itself but authority or other such issues. In those cases, will the testosterone collapse in and of itself be enough to offset the criminal element?

Chemical castration is certainly a consideration for sex crimes in general. But we're supposed to be above mutilation in this country. Supposed to be. (Not saying that we are, just that we espouse higher virtues than that.)

 

[Bells]

This article should be of some interest to some of you:

Surgical castration is no guarantee that Brian DeVries won't molest another child, specialists in urology and sexual disorders said.

The procedure, which DeVries had done nearly two years ago, lowers testosterone levels, but it doesn't preclude an erection.

"What it should do is decrease libido or sexual desire," said Dr. Michael Ellen, an Olympia urologist.
Link

The article then goes on to talk about how castration is not an absolute guarantee.

The other factor that the castration supporters have not taken into account is the fact that the castrated individual can take testosterone supplements to reignite his sex drive. And that the castrated male can also still get an erection and have sex and even orgasm if he is stimulated enough.

At first, a man who has been castrated will still have a sexual urge. Over time, however, because he's no longer producing testosterone, he'll lose much of his libido or sexual desire. Medications can readjust the chemicals in his blood and bring back some sexual desire. Studies have also been done that show with increased stimulation, a castrated man can actually get an erection, have sex, and orgasm (although he won't have any sperm in his ejaculate, which would be minimal in volume).
Link

And you can even buy the pills on the net. For example:

Testosterone Pills

There were too many to name. Such pills increase the levels of testosterone in the body thereby leading to an increase in sexual drive. Anyone can buy them. You don't even have to go to the doctors for a prescription.

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it will stop the pedophile from having the urge to fuck the child. Loving a child well as long as nothing criminal comes of it might be ok.

But that is not guaranteed and the offender can replace the levels of testosterone through hormone therapy. It may still be possible for the peadophile to get an erection, even though his testicles have been removed. As you say his sexual urge may be removed, but the fact of the matter is that the love he may feel for the child has not been removed. And he may feel that the only way to show that love is through sex. He doesn't have to have an 'urge to fuck the child', he may just want to or feel that is the only way he can show that love.

As for rape, I have stated this before and Tiassa has also touched on the issue, rape may not be for sexual gratification but for power or other reasons. The sexual urge may not be there, but the urge for control, power or to humiliate the victim, etc will still be there. Such urges or wans cannot be removed or destroyed through castration. And he can still rape the victim without his penis if he can't stimulate it enough to get an erection. Rape does not have to be sexual, and in many cases, it is not.

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Castration is a drastic and harsh punishment that is not guaranteed. It sees that only men can be sex offenders or peadophiles, when in truth that is not the case. What about female sex offenders and peadophiles? Why have two different forms of punishments for different sexes who commit the same crimes? And it would be impossible to draw the line to where castration would be necessary or used. Most importantly, I keep thinking of what if the person is in fact innocent? What then?

 

[Blue_UK]

Bells, great work digging up that info. You've swain me a little.

I'd agree it's a little barbaric - but in serious cases might still be of some practical value. I think we both agree that like with capital punishment you cannot really undo the damage if the defendant is shown innocent at a later date. So perhaps this method would be used sparing in only the most extreme cases where libido is thought to be the cause. Obviously this only works on males, but just because it's not for everyone doesn't mean it should be ruled out.

 

[Tiassa]

What about a female sex offender? Should we remove her ova, give her hormone implants for bone density, and donate the waste to scientific research?

 

[the preacher]

I've never understood why people freak out so much about sex crimes. You swindled an old lady out of her retirement money? You're a scummy con-artist. You robbed a bank at gunpoint? You're a dangerous greedy criminal. You stabbed a guy in a bar fight? You're a violent potential murderer. You raped someone?(you scar someone for life) OMFG!!! YOUR'RE WORSE THAN HITLER!!!! YOU SHOULD BE DRAGGED OUT INTO THE STREET AND SHOT!(ask the parents of a child thats been killed by a Paedophile)

Rapists and Paedophiles are the shit on my shoe, it's a taboo thing it's just something you dont do.

my personal treatment for such people, would be to torture them everyday for the rest of there live's, so they are constantly in pain, then they may understand the consequence, of there action's.

 

[fireguy_31]

Castration seems too simplistic an answer to a complex problem, it wouldn't cure anything.

Paedophillia, 'rape' etc. are heinous crimes committed, primarily, by people who have psychopathic tendancies, typically borne from socio-environmental factors experienced during childhood. Castration of those who have already committed these heinous crimes will never make our streets safer, protect our children or solve the problem.

One more thing, I believe those who find comfort in punishing others 'equally' for the wrongs they have done harbor the same tendancies as the guilty....but are far more dangerous because they believe their actions are justified.

 

[Nasor]

Rapists and Paedophiles are the shit on my shoe, it's a taboo thing it's just something you dont do.

my personal treatment for such people, would be to torture them everyday for the rest of there live's, so they are constantly in pain, then they may understand the consequence, of there action's.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Many people have far more hatred for rapists and pedophiles than for murderers, which seems silly.

While it's true that being raped is traumatic and can result in emotional problems down the road, there are many other things that are probably far more traumatizing or psychologically damaging to children than being molested. I can't cite any studies off the top of my head to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that being chronically abused physically or even emotionally by your parents would be far more damaging to a child's psyche than being molested once. Yet if someone beats their children we usually just say that they're an unfit parent with an anger control problem - few would suggest that they should be "tortured every day for the rest of their lives".

My point is that while it's true that child molesters injure children, the hatred that most people seem to feel for them is far, far out of proportion with the amount of damage that they actually do – especially in comparison to all the other ways that children can be injured.

Here's a question for you: which is worse, someone who molests a child or a parent who allows their child to grow up without learning to speak, read, or write English properly? The molester has probably caused some psychological trauma to the victim, while the negligent parent has probably condemned their child to a life of illiteracy and poverty. Who did more to damage the child's future wellbeing? Which would people be likely to support torturing to death?

 

[mis-t-highs]

One more thing, I believe those who find comfort in punishing others 'equally' for the wrongs they have done harbor the same tendancies as the guilty....but are far more dangerous because they believe their actions are justified.

are you a bleeding heart liberal:
so what you are saying is, if someone come's into your house kills you family, you will pat them on the back and say well done.
"dont be foolish fireguy"


Rapists and Paedophiles are the shit on my shoe, it's a taboo thing it's just something you dont do.
I agree with this whole heartedly.
my baby sister was raped at twelve years old, she took her own life last year she was only fifteen.
she could not bear to look at people in the eye's, she felt ashamed, and found it hard to make friend's as she felt she could not trust anymore. "HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT RIGHT NASOR ?" I would treat the offender, a lot worse then the preacher, and what I would do, would not be justified.

the hatred that most people seem to feel for them is far, far out of proportion with the amount of damage that they actually do

absolute rubbish, walk in a victims shoe's, or be part of the family of a child or girl, who's been raped or murder before you open you mouth again.
your point has been taken, but it's rubbish.

 

[ElectricFetus]

are you a bleeding heart liberal:
so what you are saying is, if someone come's into your house kills you family, you will pat them on the back and say well done.
"dont be foolish fireguy"

no but killing the murder's family might be wrong, I think the idea od cuting of the balls of sex offenders, cuting the hands of theives, cutting the tongues of liers and politicians

Rapists and Paedophiles are the shit on my shoe, it's a taboo thing it's just something you dont do.
I agree with this whole heartedly.
my baby sister was raped at twelve years old, she took her own life last year she was only fifteen.
she could not bear to look at people in the eye's, she felt ashamed, and found it hard to make friend's as she felt she could not trust anymore. "HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT RIGHT NASOR ?" I would treat the offender, a lot worse then the preacher, and what I would do, would not be justified.

Should we have 2 dead people instead of one? Sure imprison the offender from a good long time, cheap slave labor I say (if we could get a prisons to work efficiently that is) the offender could be treated, chemcial castration works pretty well when they take their meds. The offender could be made into a functional member of society and try to make up for his crimes.

 

[Nasor]

absolute rubbish, walk in a victims shoe's, or be part of the family of a child or girl, who's been raped or murder before you open you mouth again.
your point has been taken, but it's rubbish.

Yeah, calling my point rubbish is a really incisive, well-reasoned explanation of why I'm wrong.

Most people actually have more hatred for rapists than murderers. How much sense does that make?

 

[mustafhakofi]

I think nasor she made it quite clear, and I quote.
walk in a victims shoe's, or be part of the family of a child or girl, who's been raped or murder.
quite clear as to why your wrong, is'nt it.

well cooked :the murderer does not deserve a life, if he has denied the right for someone else to live a full and happy life.

 

[ElectricFetus]

I thought we were talking about rapist?, a murder could save 7 lives by extracting his vital organs for donation.

 

[s0meguy]

Why not tattoo them on their face so everyone can tell what he has done. And then put him in jail for a few months. He will regret!!

And if a rapist might get caught for the second time, castrate him.

Everyone but murderers deserve a second chance.

I do not think death is the appropiate way to deal with rapists if that is the way it goes in America.

 

[Blue_UK]

There seems to be a lot of serious anger against rapists and paedophiles, which is completely understandable. However, revenge should never influence justice.

After all what is the function of the criminal justice / penal systems?
In my opinion:

• To reform the criminal
• To protect society
• To act as a deterrent

Obviously, if you ask the victims family they could happily see the criminal 'tortured and executed'.

Eye for an eye, arm for an arm. What does this serve? Fine it makes people a little happier to know that a bad person has suffered and can act as a deterrent but it hardly reforms anyone or solves any problems that could be done in a more civilised fashion.

Most people actually have more hatred for rapists than murderers. How much sense does that make?

Yes, I agree that hate seems to be distributed unevenly. But do you agree that hate has no place in justice?

cheap slave labor

Agree, better to make use of someone than kill them once you've established they are permenantly not fit for society.

Castration seems too simplistic an answer to a complex problem, it wouldn't cure anything.

Although I agree with your later statement, castration would have numorous behavioral affects and perhaps is not really that simplistic.

Why not tattoo them on their face so everyone can tell what he has done. And then put him in jail for a few months. He will regret!!

And if a rapist might get caught for the second time, castrate him.

Everyone but murderers deserve a second chance.

If you tattoo someone, then I would think they stand a good chance of being abused themselves. If that is a just punishment then the abuse should be administered by the authorities.

The current system (in the UK) of having a sex offenders register works well. Schools can make checks on potential employees but these people can live without fear of abuse.

my personal treatment for such people, would be to torture them everyday for the rest of there live's, so they are constantly in pain, then they may understand the consequence, of there action's.

What's the point in making them understand if you're torturing them for the rest of their lives?

 

[the preacher]

the point being they will be pleding for death, and crying out with remorse.
so they understand, how horrible it must of been for the there victim and the terror that there victim, must of felt.

you said
To reform the criminal: does not work ( once someone's killed,raped etc, it's easer the next time.To protect society: does not work same answer as above.To act as a deterrent:does not work same answer as above.

 

[Nasor]

No one close to me has ever been raped, so admittedly I don't know how it feels. But I certainly hope it wouldn't turn me into a bloodthirsty torturer.

 

[Kumar]

We may have to think it in nature's sense. Does the nature allows sex offence? If it allows how severe punishment as mentoned can be justified?

 

[Watcher]

I don't think anyone ever addressed the inequality of the testicle removal idea - as it cannot be applied to female offenders.

"Sex offenders" is a huge category, but I do know quite a bit about one aspect of it. My close friend works in a juvenile facility for sex offenders. I would not agree that castration should be applied to most of these kids. That would be very unjust.

Most of them are young teens who were sexualized at an early age by fathers, mothers, siblings. Even from a very young age, they were learning to use sexual aggression against people, animals, inanimate objects. These behaviors were taught to them - so they simply behaved as if this were normal activity. Some of these children can be rehabilitated, some are damaged for life. In any event, they are "sexual offenders", because they did indeed offend. But the type of mutilation that is being suggested here is not a just outcome for kids in this situation.

It's not always black and white.