R
Redoubtable
Guest
Heh . . . the article is pretty funny, actually.
Sex education a new tax ploy?
- Thread starter Fafnir665
- Start date
In all fairness, I think the presidents vew is that abstance should be taught with preferance over contraceptive. No, it's not ad absurdum because I did not drawl a conclusion from it but I can assure you that most kids have learned about abstance because it is their normal state before puberty. Nevertheless, learning about abstance is learning how many of highschool marriages last, and emotional and physical consequences of sex. The prevalent methodology has been to treat the kids like they are animals. I can't blame the president for wanting to change that.
Wait a second, is Oki arguing that contraceptives should not be taught about in school because any idiot can figure them out? If this is the case then why should abstinence be taught either? Isn’t it easier to figure out that there is no risk if you don’t take the chance?
And right now abstinence most certainly is taught as preferable to contraceptives, bush's plan is to remove contraceptives from the curriculum.
… Oki, good one with that “Puppets of the condom manufacturers” line, but I do believe (and I may have to check my facts on this one, I’m not entirely sure) that youngsters, and people in general engaged in recreational sex before condoms even existed.
And right now abstinence most certainly is taught as preferable to contraceptives, bush's plan is to remove contraceptives from the curriculum.
… Oki, good one with that “Puppets of the condom manufacturers” line, but I do believe (and I may have to check my facts on this one, I’m not entirely sure) that youngsters, and people in general engaged in recreational sex before condoms even existed.
It already is.
Right, I forgot that you're not in the business of making valid points, just rambeling on endlessly and going nowhere.
Wow so before a person has a sex drive, or even knows what sex is they usualy abstain from sex. What happens when those hormones kick in, they know what sex is, and they want it badly? Guess abstinence doesn't exactly make much sense to them, does it?
I guess you can draw a line from this issue, but where does highschool marraige come in? I'm not quite getting what you're trying to imply here.
Ok now this is absurd. How are kids being treated like animals, and what exactly has lead you to the conclusion that our compassionate president has decided to step in and help the poor dears?
Bells
Staff member
Hey... if parents are tying leashes to their kids and making them sleep in the dog house, then yeah the president should be doing something about that. Especially if the kids are being fixed. But I'm guess the "like they are animals" thing is meant to point out that children are having sex like animals or that they are just having sex willy nilly as if they are animals in heat? Sorry if I'm confused here, but how exactly are the american people treating their kids like animals? I just have this mental picture of parents walking their kids along with the dog.... LOL...
Most kids get married at school because a pregnancy has occured, due to what? Oh yeah that's right, their lack of understanding about sex and contraception.
Not residing in the US, I find it amazing that sex education is not taught in schools. How can any Government refuse to teach about contraception? Are they not aware that by teaching teenagers abstinance is the best form of contraception and that sex is bad unless one is married, they're just pushing these teens to find alternatives to vaginal penetrative sex. Many are experimenting with oral and anal sex and aren't using condoms because as far as they are concerned it's not sex. Sex education is an important part of any childs education as it gives the teenager the option of what they wish to do. And I am scared to imagine the divorce rates of children who have been taught abstinance and when they do get married and find they can't cope or don't know what to do. Will the US Government give out a booklet to each marrying couple with "put A into B"?
Kids in Australia are taught sex education and contraception is a big part of it. It's not the teacher at the front with a dildo and sliding the condom on, but it's teaching children about contraception and WHY it is essential. But not only that, teenagers are taught that it's ok to say no, and they are also taught that it's ok for them to feel the urge and what they are feeling inside their bodies is normal. Sex education here encompasses all aspects, from all forms of contraception (including abstinance) but also what can result from not using contraception (as in AIDS and other STD's as well as preganancy).
Teenagers will always experiment with sex. If it's not penetrative sex it will be some other form (eg oral sex) and to not teach them about contraception is only asking for the US to develop an AIDS and hepatitis problem like in Africa and Asia. Abstinance along with other forms of contraception should be part of the curriculum. Teenagers need to know that it is ok to learn about these things and it's normal to feel like they do.
HUH?? It'd make a huge difference if they have a condom. The "emotional factors" aren't just pregnancy Okinrus, STD's are another big, if not worse factor. So from what you're saying, if you're going to have sex before marriage, it's ok if you contract an STD or fall pregnant or have your partner fall pregnant? A condom does not only isolate the emotional aspect of having a child Okinrus, what it does is to help prevent STD's. Imagine the poor girl or boy who has followed the abstinance pathway religiously and meets a partner who hasn't (and lied... and people do lie about these things)... this individual will not use a condom or have any tests because he/she will think their parter is just like them and then boom, the bomb explodes and they find themselves with an STD. Okinrus, if people have sex without a condom before or even after marriage (and neither party have been tested before the wedding night), a pregnancy is the least of their worries. AIDS would be life destroying and not just an emotional factor.
No, what I mean is the use of condom education being some sort of panacea for premarital sex simply because kids aren't able to understand the emotional and physical consequences of their own actions.
Teaching about contraception and endorsing contraception are two different things. The latter contradicts my morals. The former can be taught, and any teachings on this should mention that contraception and premarital sex goes against many religions.
Couples who engage in premarital sex before marriage are less likely to stay together. These are facts; perhaps the goverment should be teaching students facts instead of condom sales endorsements.
<i>Teenagers will always experiment with sex.</i>
This kind of mentality is what I meant by treating the kids like animals.
STD's are not an emotional factor. Condoms isolates the physical consequeces from the emotional ones. Kids should be taught that sex has both emtional and physical consequences and that ignorance of either one leads to a cycle of failed relationships all so common in todays world. Just as the nation endorses marriages by given them benefits, it should also endorse marriage <em>in</em> the classroom.
Bells
Staff member
Yes that's right, YOUR morals. Just because it contradicts YOUR morals does not mean that it is wrong. Schools aren't endorsing contraception Okinrus. They are merely attempting to let the kids know that IF they do have sex then they should use contraception. That's not an endorsement, that's ensuring the safety of the teenagers.
But wouldn't that be implying YOUR beliefs and YOUR religions on others? The majority of priests aren't virgins when they join the seminary, so where does that logic come into it? Most priests and nuns for that matter have lived life prior to joining any order.
The catholic church is against contraception all together. But does that mean that catholics dont use it? Of course not. I dont know of any catholic who does not use contraception. Before or after marriage.
I'm sorry for being rude Okinrus, but that is total and utter bullshit. Where are your figures that couples who engage in pre-marital sex are less likely to stay together? I can think of many couples who I know for a fact engaged in pre-marital sex and had marriages that lasted for 45+ years and only really ended when one partner passed away. Wouldn't the Government be teaching the kids false expectations if they taught them that to not have sex before marriage would mean that your marriage would last? Imagine that... go through life thinking ok.. I didn't have sex before marriage and now I shall be married forever... and then they aren't. One partner cheats or one or both are unhappy... what then? Blame the Government for teaching them that?
Okinrus, kids are taught that to have sex and and especially to have unprotected sex can lead to a life of problems, such as unwanted pregnancies and the risk of STD's. Teachers aren't selling kids condoms, they're just teaching them that IF they do have sex, they should use a condom for safety reasons. I'd rather my child learn that than to have some bible toting twit preach to them that they should not have sex because it's immoral unless they're married, and then have my child go out and have let's see... oral sex, without a condom and come down with an STD. You see Okinrus, you teach a child not to have sex and not only will they have it, but if they dont, then they will find alternatives (eg oral sex). What would be going through the kid's mind? Hey, it's not sex as preached about in the bible or in schools so it must be ok, right? They're still virgins, right? So no need to use a condom, right? You see what I'm getting to here Okinrus? Teaching kids about contraception is the best way to protect from STD's, even if they only have oral sex. To teach them that its immoral or "evil" to have sex and to stay virgins until married will only push them to do something else. Worse scenario would be a kid who was still a virgin but experimented with other things, such as unprotected oral sex and then got married to another virgin, and oopsy... sorry about giving you AIDS dear... but but but... they said we shouldn't have sex and I didn't... condom? why do I need a condom for? But but but I didn't have sex dear... You get my drift here? Teaching kids about condoms would prevent horrid little scenarios like these from happening.
Pre-marital sex does not lead to a cycle of failed relationships. It's usually other factors that break up relationships (you know.. cheating partners, abusive partners, lying parters, and so on). So what's your suggestion Okinrus? Stop all sex education that teaches children about the use of contraception and why they SHOULD AND MUST be used? Tell children to never have sex before marriage? What then? Have kids getting married from when they're still teens because they want to have sex? Forget about college and university, need to get married to have sex. I know... maybe we should go back to the good old days, those days when parents picked your spouse from when you're still in the womb and then keep you closed off from reality and then marry you off as soon as you get pubic hair
.So supplying the students with free condoms isn't really endosement?
I don't think I am. I'm all for presenting the students both sides of the issue as long as clear facts are presented. For example, if 20% of the students were religion Z and I was teaching them X that contradicts religion Z, I would be morally obligated to say that X contradicts religion Z.
The Catholic Church has a more selective definition of contraception. Some types of birth control such as the rthytm method are allowed.
There is a statistical correlation. Studies, however, have confirmed that couples who have premarital sex while commited to marriage have the same break up rates as those who abstain until marriage. Cheating, abusive, and lying all stem from a deeper emotional side or lack of commitment. We can be sure that your 15 year old having sex is not commited because commitment is practically impossible. This cycle of failures leads to cheating, lies, abuse and the final rejection of love itself.