Sex education a new tax ploy?

[Fafnir665]

The bush administrations stand on sex education.

They are trying to push the view that everyone should abstain from sex until marriage.

Two comments on that, I think, would be that the people teaching said they would only support that view if they were paid to, and second, could this be a possible ploy to increase tax revenue?

Spend 100 million on promoting that sex education standpoint, gain a billion when couples have to pay more taxes when they marry?

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=11153

 

[sargentlard]

They are trying to push the view that everyone should abstain from sex until marriage.

This is nothing new. They are only expanding on the old ideaology it seems.

 

[Fafnir665]

My point is, married people pay more taxes together then alone combined...

 

[Mystech]

This has been part of the republican platform for a while. Aparently they think that they are somehow going to create an abstinance education program that is so effecive that it will overcome the combined sex drives of every teenager in America. Fankly I think that they are not only out of their minds but being grossly neglagent. It's all part of a conservative plot to return us to the dark ages, I'm sure.

To all Republicans: News flash, kids WILL have sex, it's going to happen! Not everyone is going to wait until they get married to knock boots for the first time, in fact the vast majority of people aren't, that's just the nature of having a free society, if people wanna' fuck they are going to fuck. Teach kids about safe sex so that when it does happen and it will they are at least a little better off.

 

[Redoubtable]

By the Two Rivers, fuck abstinence and the self-appointed constituents thereof!
By Marduk, fuck straitlaced ass-holes and fuck the Republican platform!
By Tiamat, fuck them all!

Why don't they spend the money in grants to medical research for curing STDs or AIDS?

 

[sargentlard]

Originally posted by Redoubtable


Why don't they spend the money in grants to medical research for curing STDs or AIDS?

Because taking care of these diasters is charities problems. You want your shit cured, well then you raise money for it because we're too busy spending money on wasteful and worthless efforts.

yayy government

 

[SpyMoose]

Ive been told, primarily by european correspondents, that this whole abstainance thing is part of what they identify as a uniquly American aversion to sex. I think its vital to our forign policy to ENCOURAGE sex among our youngsters, and to make sure we are damn good at it, because right now I can think of at least 3 european nations who have reputations for being great lovers, and any one of them would laugh at us.

 

[okinrus]

Whatever you want to think, I don't want my tax money going to the education of how to use condoms. If kids really wanted to use one then they could RTFM or perhaps the multi-million dollar companies can show them after class.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by okinrus
Whatever you want to think, I don't want my tax money going to the education of how to use condoms. If kids really wanted to use one then they could RTFM or perhaps the multi-million dollar companies can show them after class.

But you would perhaps prefer a single minded regime of completely ineffectual techniques to dissuade them from having sex all together? Contraceptives and safe sex are things that teenagers need to learn about, keeping them in the dark about it isn't going to make them stop having sex, it's just going to make them have more high-risk unprotected sex.

 

[okinrus]

But you would perhaps prefer a single minded regime of completely ineffectual techniques to dissuade them from having sex all together?

Why? What makes you think the current techniques are helpful?

<i><b>
Contraceptives and safe sex are things that teenagers need to learn about</b></i>
Only if they want to use them.

keeping them in the dark about it isn't going to make them stop having sex, it's just going to make them have more high-risk unprotected sex.

Why should my money have to go to teaching something that I think is immoral? If someone is not mature enough to read directions on how to use a condom then they are obviously not ready for sex. It is only necessary to teach kids on the risk of sex and maybe some cursory information on what condoms do.

 

[jps]

I see too possibilities regarding the motivation behind the abstinence only education folks.
No one's dumb enough to think that it will work.
Its either an excuse to avoid spending money on sex ed, or it comes from the belief that anyone who does have sex prior to marriage is heathen scum who deserve what they get.

 

[okinrus]

I see too possibilities regarding the motivation behind the abstinence only education folks. No one's dumb enough to think that it will work. Its either an excuse to avoid spending money on sex ed, or it comes from the belief that anyone who does have sex prior to marriage is heathen scum who deserve what they get.

What about the only 100% effective way to prevent STDs, preserving the sanctity of marriage(many who do choose to have sex before marriage say that it is the wrong decision), not enforcing religious morality on people, not being puppets of condom manufactures, and finally, to teach kids the ability to say no.

 

[SpyMoose]

Why do environmentalists preach conservation instead of banning of fossil fuels, and plastics and land development and all sorts of pollution producing things? Because they know what their goal is and which is the practical compromise they have to accept.

Even if abstinence catches on like wildfire there is still the tendency of teens to rebel, and they are going to. We say don’t have sex, and they have bodies full of hormones that tell them to have sex, and there will still be a big portion that snubs their abstinence teachers, but thanks to abstinence only teaching they'll do it blissfully ignorant of contraceptives because its not PC to talk about them.

IMO the best thing to do is force the kids to watch horrible medical documentaries about STD's where they show peoples ruined inflamed, fungus spewing, puss dripping, mold coated, sore studded genitals for a few hours during health class. Worked for me.

BTW i noticed that Oki called abstinence the only 100% effective method to prevent STD's. That’s true, I want to mention though that most folks say abstinence is the only 100% effective birth control. That’s how the little slogan goes, but i would like to point out that homosexuality and sodomy are just as affective.

 

[Mystech]

Haha, Oki are you sure you're not just some sort of religious rightwing rhetoric spambot? You say the most awful things. Developing young adults need to know the options that are open to them, not be made to be forced into a paradigm where we are all frightened of everything and feel that we have to behave in accordance to the morals that that have been pounded into us, and when we eventually break them we've become bad people.

Fact: Young people are going to have sex.
Fact: They are much better protected from STDs or unwanted pregnancies using condoms, than if they ride bareback so to speak, they should be educated about these things.

You're right that abstinence is the only 100% effective method, but it's got a catch, and that is that horny young teenagers aren't going to stick to it! I agree that it should be encouraged, but there needs to be some discussion about how to go about things when they do decide to take the plunge and do the nasty.

As for the matter of why your money should go toward something you feel is immoral. . . well that's a good one and you've got me. But hey my money goes straight to politicians dedicated to ensuring I'm a second class citizen so maybe it evens out? Honestly I think it's just more of a case of your morals being idiotic and completely out of touch with reality. A lot of people find violence and guns as immoral, but we still have to maintain a standing army, don't we? In some cases practical need outweighs arbitrary morality.

 

[jps]

Originally posted by okinrus
What about the only 100% effective way to prevent STDs,.....
not enforcing religious morality on people, not being puppets of condom manufactures, and finally, to teach kids the ability to say no.

Of course they should be taught that its the only 100% effective way, but since many are not going to abstain even with this knowledge, isn't it better that they know how to use contraception?

Originally posted by okinrus
preserving the sanctity of marriage(many who do choose to have sex before marriage say that it is the wrong decision),

many relative to what? I've never encountered anyone like that.
In any case, teaching morality should not be allowed in schools.

 

[okinrus]

Of course they should be taught that its the only 100% effective way, but since many are not going to abstain even with this knowledge, isn't it better that they know how to use contraception?

Anyone can read the directions on the condom and learn how to use it. It is up to the companies selling condoms to supply the appropriate documentation to the buyer.

You're right that abstinence is the only 100% effective method, but it's got a catch, and that is that horny young teenagers aren't going to stick to it! I agree that it should be encouraged, but there needs to be some discussion about how to go about things when they do decide to take the plunge and do the nasty.

This is really the parent's job. If a teenager wants to get counciling or personal opinions on contraception, I'm sure he or she would be able to find it.

many relative to what? I've never encountered anyone like that.
In any case, teaching morality should not be allowed in schools.

No, morality in the universal sense should be taught. Things that are not universal such as contraception should not be taught.

Haha, Oki are you sure you're not just some sort of religious rightwing rhetoric spambot? You say the most awful things

I'm really not "rightwing". I believe that it's the parent's and kid's right to get information that isn't propagated by some condom company. The condom "fix" hasn't worked completely.

 

[SpyMoose]

Originally posted by okinrus
No, morality in the universal sense should be taught. Things that are not universal such as contraception should not be taught.

Clarification: Universal morality - What okinrus thinks is right

look this is just going to turn into a yell at okinrus fest isn’t it? We are going to have a million reasons why just abstinence isn’t enough, and he'll have a grab bag of defenses that we keep finding problems with that he wont answer, and all it'll come down to is that we think we are right because we have a million good reasons, and oki thinks he's right cause the lord said 'twas true and deep down he really wants a set of morals that isn’t influenced by something as trivial as the age of reason.

For your sake Oki I hope you have another forum on the side where you can go and have your religiously founded ethics affirmed so you don’t turn into one of those folks who is bitter and paranoid about the world plunging into “moral deficit”. I’m sure there are plenty of people who think like you somewhere. Which is to say that they don’t believe that ethics has anything to do with practicality, but instead with fairy tails in a big fat book you read every Sunday.

 

[jps]

Originally posted by okinrus
Anyone can read the directions on the condom and learn how to use it. It is up to the companies selling condoms to supply the appropriate documentation to the buyer.

documentation is all well and good, but in the heat of the moment its unlikely your average teenage non-abstainers going to stop and read the instructions.

Originally posted by okinrus
No, morality in the universal sense should be taught. Things that are not universal such as contraception should not be taught.

Teaching teens to use condoms is not teaching them morality, its teaching them facts on how to have safe-sex. No one is proposing that sex ed teachers tell kids to have sex, just how to do it safely if they do.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by okinrus
Anyone can read the directions on the condom and learn how to use it. It is up to the companies selling condoms to supply the appropriate documentation to the buyer.

Saying that anyone can figure out how to properly use contraceptives is just as valid an argument as saying that teens should be smart enough to know that if they fuck they could get pregnant, or catch some disease. The fact is that having some instruction on these matters, and letting adults they see as authority figures give 'em the short and long of it is a much better method, and guaranteed more effective than just letting them fumble the hell through it themselves.

You've got a point that these are things parents should teach kids, and I agree fully, unfortunately a lot of parents aren't going to, either because they are busy, or embarrassed to talk with their kids about it, or hell maybe they're just weirdly religious like you and think for some awful reason that condoms are the devil, so it does make a sort of sense to teach them about this stuff when you've got 'em all sitting down together in a place where they are supposed to be learning anyway.

 

[okinrus]

You've got a point that these are things parents should teach kids, and I agree fully, unfortunately a lot of parents aren't going to, either because they are busy, or embarrassed to talk with their kids about it, or hell maybe they're just weirdly religious like you and think for some awful reason that condoms are the devil, so it does make a sort of sense to teach them about this stuff when you've got 'em all sitting down together in a place where they are supposed to be learning anyway.

No, most kids who don't know anything about contraception at this time are incapable to learn. Besides, they will need to practice saying "no" when they don't have contraception. In my highschool, health class became a real "show in tell" for one student. It is hard to imagine that anyone learned anything in that class. However, I don't believe that condoms are the devil. In fact, if someone is going to have sex before marriage then it would seem not to make too much of difference if they have a condom. It does, however, isolate the emotional factors from the consequences. More so, even some of these kids are incapable of being in a long-term relationship.