Really, what would happen if we all simply slept with each other? How many iterations would it take for there to exist one type of race, facial structure, etc.
Sex and more sex
- Thread starter thefountainhed
- Start date
Bad title, good question.
I really like the question though: If everyone was interbreeding, then how long tell everyone reached a state of genetic homogeny. Hey I think I can write up a matlab simulation of this for the answer. I could make a simulation of "individuals" interbreed them at different rates and different population growth rates. I can use the old code I wrote for tracking a lethal genes distribution rate. From my lethal gene code though I can tell you that the rate of homogeny will be a logarithmic plot in that the population will never be able to achieve total homogeny and will approach the homogeny limit at logarithmic curve. I can’t really put a number now (without the code) on how long tell we reach the homogeny limit but probably more then 6 generations. I think I will have time on Wednesday for this little pet project I’ll get back to you then with a more definitive answer.
I really like the question though: If everyone was interbreeding, then how long tell everyone reached a state of genetic homogeny. Hey I think I can write up a matlab simulation of this for the answer. I could make a simulation of "individuals" interbreed them at different rates and different population growth rates. I can use the old code I wrote for tracking a lethal genes distribution rate. From my lethal gene code though I can tell you that the rate of homogeny will be a logarithmic plot in that the population will never be able to achieve total homogeny and will approach the homogeny limit at logarithmic curve. I can’t really put a number now (without the code) on how long tell we reach the homogeny limit but probably more then 6 generations. I think I will have time on Wednesday for this little pet project I’ll get back to you then with a more definitive answer.
Weiser_Dub
Registered Senior Member
6 generations? HA!
This would take much, much longer than that. First of all, if a caucasian and an asian breed you get one thing, while a black and latin would give you something totally different. Then of course, you'd have people invariably breeding with the same race, due to numbers, choices, etc... I mean, the asians totally outnumber everyone else. With all the different combinations, and with evolution taking place along the way, it would take an infinite amount of time to reach this homogeny. Unfortunately, it seems like it might take that long for everyone to finally look upon each other equally, etc...
Can we all just jump forward say 3,000 years in time?
This would take much, much longer than that. First of all, if a caucasian and an asian breed you get one thing, while a black and latin would give you something totally different. Then of course, you'd have people invariably breeding with the same race, due to numbers, choices, etc... I mean, the asians totally outnumber everyone else. With all the different combinations, and with evolution taking place along the way, it would take an infinite amount of time to reach this homogeny. Unfortunately, it seems like it might take that long for everyone to finally look upon each other equally, etc...
Can we all just jump forward say 3,000 years in time?
Ok lets do the raw math if you have a population of genetically heterogenic people and they all interbreed (yes in real life they would not all interbreed) the first generation would be only 1/2 as heterorganic as the last, Repeat now its 1/4, again 1/8, 1/16... ect yes 6 generation of pure interbreeding would result in a very homogenic population. That is assuming everyone was very intentionally interbreeding.
Still don’t get it, ok lest look at it a different way: the first interbreeding would be of pure races and the children (generation 1) would be half and half. Now for Generation 2 we interbreed all the hybrids from the last generation together and assume (By very strict big brother control) that no hybrids of common racial ancestry are interbreed: the result is the generation 2 has 4 racial breeds behind it. We repeat and now Generation 3 has 8 different races interbreed per person. Generation 4 has 16 ect…
As you can see the interbreeding is not one at a time and not additive, but multiples.
Xav,
Haha very funny... huuum that would be a sight to see though.
Still don’t get it, ok lest look at it a different way: the first interbreeding would be of pure races and the children (generation 1) would be half and half. Now for Generation 2 we interbreed all the hybrids from the last generation together and assume (By very strict big brother control) that no hybrids of common racial ancestry are interbreed: the result is the generation 2 has 4 racial breeds behind it. We repeat and now Generation 3 has 8 different races interbreed per person. Generation 4 has 16 ect…
As you can see the interbreeding is not one at a time and not additive, but multiples.
Xav,
Haha very funny... huuum that would be a sight to see though.
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Forget about charts and graphs and numbers...wanna know how long it will take to reach genetic homogeny then get off the computer and start doing people...it's the best way to find out.
It is impossible, simply because as a rule, our nature will avoid homogenity else we will phase out. Or maybe it is not but the generations it will take will be in the millions. By then, we'd be dead anyway from a mosquito bite because the variations between us would be so limited.
you're working with too much variation in that model. bring this to the math forum. although an all out orgy might be fun, it is easier to test it with drosophila. but is there enough diversity among flies that can interbreed? you'd need at least 60 or so different types that can breed. the only way to really find out is to do it, and your neighbor.
The problem is in a laboratory controlled situation it is very quick and clean... should follow the math perfectly... but in real life people just don't interbreed like that! In real life only very small percentage of each race's populations are interbreeding and in uncontrolled ways. At the rate people are interbreeding it will be eons before hybrids become the majority.
testing it would have to be psuedo-random then, or rather directed to look random. take a few people from each race and select who they may breed withdo the same with each subsequent generation.
race and genes
Great topic, but I’m slightly confused about how a ‘race’ is defined by genes. Race as a scientific category is marked by its dependence as a social category. Its relationship to ethnicity is important to such a discussion and should not be excluded. My point is this; the four traditional race types may have existed in 500 BC, however their current existence and importance is heavily suspect. If 4 race types no longer exist then should 16 or perhaps 256 be proposed, and what characteristics should define a race as a posed to an ethnicity? Regardless of how scientific scientists try to be, these characteristics will be defined by society and not ‘nature’.
This is complicated by some defining genes still as the causation agent of phenotypical characteristics. This question is not about breeding peas, but about creating a homogenous population of complex individuals, who through their own agency strive to protect their individually. As many here have pointed out this involves more than just mixing genes through sexual procreation but also involves over coming cultural and national boundaries. The successful computer model which showed that to overcome racism in housing areas was near impossible, since as long as everyone would like to live in a place with 50% of people the same color as themselves, the area will end up being a homogeneous area (100% your racial type). For total interbreeding to take place one must have a active desire (75%) to have children with another racial type.
Further added to this is the effect of gender roles. It is likely that women would interbreed at a higher rate that men (i.e. as some researchers have proposed occurred in the cast system of India), and that women would have control over the outcome of inter-racial sex.
Hope some of this has been interesting.
Great topic, but I’m slightly confused about how a ‘race’ is defined by genes. Race as a scientific category is marked by its dependence as a social category. Its relationship to ethnicity is important to such a discussion and should not be excluded. My point is this; the four traditional race types may have existed in 500 BC, however their current existence and importance is heavily suspect. If 4 race types no longer exist then should 16 or perhaps 256 be proposed, and what characteristics should define a race as a posed to an ethnicity? Regardless of how scientific scientists try to be, these characteristics will be defined by society and not ‘nature’.
This is complicated by some defining genes still as the causation agent of phenotypical characteristics. This question is not about breeding peas, but about creating a homogenous population of complex individuals, who through their own agency strive to protect their individually. As many here have pointed out this involves more than just mixing genes through sexual procreation but also involves over coming cultural and national boundaries. The successful computer model which showed that to overcome racism in housing areas was near impossible, since as long as everyone would like to live in a place with 50% of people the same color as themselves, the area will end up being a homogeneous area (100% your racial type). For total interbreeding to take place one must have a active desire (75%) to have children with another racial type.
Further added to this is the effect of gender roles. It is likely that women would interbreed at a higher rate that men (i.e. as some researchers have proposed occurred in the cast system of India), and that women would have control over the outcome of inter-racial sex.
Hope some of this has been interesting.
Re: race and genes
Originally posted by weebee
Great topic, but I’m slightly confused about how a ‘race’ is defined by genes.
Muhahaha: http://www.racearchives.com/calc/index.asp
Race as a scientific category is marked by its dependence as a social category.
A rather highblown statement, but then again there are several types of big cats that can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, but that is just a social category of the big cats, isn't it?
Its relationship to ethnicity is important to such a discussion and should not be excluded.
Ok then.
My point is this; the four traditional race types may have existed in 500 BC, however their current existence and importance is heavily suspect.
Why?
If 4 race types no longer exist then should 16 or perhaps 256 be proposed, and what characteristics should define a race as a posed to an ethnicity? Regardless of how scientific scientists try to be, these characteristics will be defined by society and not ‘nature’.
This argument relys upon a straw man, the straw man that races are monolithic contsructs. The truth is, populations split, become isolated, and gene frequencies change, and if this goes on for long enough, new species are created, with a resultant increase in phenotypic diversity.
This is complicated by some defining genes still as the causation agent of phenotypical characteristics.
Genes do not cause you to have a nose? What does then? I am intrigued.
This question is not about breeding peas, but about creating a homogenous population of complex individuals, who through their own agency strive to protect their individually.
Ah, so it it MORAL to reduce the original phenotypic diversity to create a homogeonous blob. Intriguing.
As many here have pointed out this involves more than just mixing genes through sexual procreation but also involves over coming cultural and national boundaries.
Overcoming fear is the first step in stepping in front of a car. Overcoming something is not a value in itself. Or?
The successful computer model which showed that to overcome racism in housing areas was near impossible, since as long as everyone would like to live in a place with 50% of people the same color as themselves, the area will end up being a homogeneous area (100% your racial type).
That is pure evil.
For total interbreeding to take place one must have a active desire (75%) to have children with another racial type.
Didn't you say earlier that you had trouble accepting the ''race'' exists? Or only perhaps when we want to deny the obvious.
Further added to this is the effect of gender roles. It is likely that women would interbreed at a higher rate that men (i.e. as some researchers have proposed occurred in the cast system of India), and that women would have control over the outcome of inter-racial sex.
Why?
Hope some of this has been interesting.
It certainly has been.
Muhahaha!
LMFAO. Wow an incredible stupid site:http://www.racearchives.com/calc/index.asp
How does this thing measure again?LOL!!!!!
The point of the question, and what I was hoping for originally was for someone to tell me that as humans, we are practically 95+-3 % alike genetically. Race not being scientifically quantifiable is a fact that any grade school student should be able to understand. And also even wiith the relatively secluded population of eskimos, homogenity in terms of features and etc is absent.
How does this thing measure again?LOL!!!!!
The point of the question, and what I was hoping for originally was for someone to tell me that as humans, we are practically 95+-3 % alike genetically. Race not being scientifically quantifiable is a fact that any grade school student should be able to understand. And also even wiith the relatively secluded population of eskimos, homogenity in terms of features and etc is absent.